Monsters and Memories (Project_N) - Old School Indie MMO

Quaid said:

Ah I see. Reaching 'sexual maturity' is touching women. Got it, got it.

And 'touching women' is how one becomes 'not bitter'. Sounds like you have it all figured out Del. Keep on truckin', champ.

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Striking out with women because you're a little manlet tends to make men bitter, yes. Also hilarious that this is what you come up with after trying to pretend like arguing with retards for their bad takes means one's self worth and identity are tied to this game. Best of luck to you, Elliot.

Status quo for the boards, new low for the thread...


I wonder how long before endless quiver is a thing for archers/rangers.

Gravel said:

Kind of funny, just started watching this Flea interview with Rick Beato, and he talks about how people end up being drawn to the music of the time period where they hit sexual maturity through to around early adulthood when they have to become responsible, and they don't actually "like music" but rather are drawn to the music that reminds them of that period of their life. Flea states that he "loves music" because he enjoys all of it for music, and it's not that reminiscence that people chase.

Sounds familiar.

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There's a well-researched psychological basis for this called the "reminiscence bump": humans tend to over-value media experienced between roughly ages 12-25 because that's when our brains are wiring up long-term memory, novelty triggers stronger dopamine responses, and we're forming a sense of self. So people chase those sounds, not because the music is better, but because it's a shortcut back to a version of themselves that no longer exists.

It's just like someone who insists that "no music today is good anymore" isn't critiquing structure, composition, or musicianship. They're mourning the loss of a version of themselves.

It's not about EQ's corpse runs or downtime or forced friction. Those weren't good systems. They were attached to a period of life people idealize. They conflate the mechanics with the feeling of being young, free, and socially plugged into something bigger than themselves. The nostalgia crowd keeps shouting, "Modern MMOs are shit and stopped being magical!!!". No, you stopped being 19. Games didn't change nearly as much as your capacity to romanticize boredom, tolerate inconvenience, and treat a chat box as a social lifeline.

Flea's point fucking nails it - Loving something because of what it is requires discernment. Loving something because it reminds you of who you used to be requires absolutely nothing but emotional inertia. That distinction explains 99% of the arguments being had in this thread. They're not defending game design. They're defending memory. And memory doesn't need logic, iteration, or sustainability, it just needs something familiar enough to trick the brain into thinking the past is still accessible. It isn't.

But it is hilarious watching "grown men" argue from the emotional sides of their brain, rather than the logical side. Very woman-like.

Trying to figure out why you like something is a waste of time. Same with trying to pretend you don’t like it.

Arden said:

Trying to figure out why you like something is a waste of time. Same with trying to pretend you don’t like it.

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Huh? I can point to objective reasons why I like virtually every single video game in my "Top 20" or whatever sample size you want to use. Conversely, I can point to reasons why I dislike something, or even aspects I dislike about games I enjoy.

Understanding why we're drawn to things is literally the basis of psychology, marketing, product design, and the entire MMO genre. If developers didn't spend time understanding why players enjoy something, every game would be an unplayable mess of random ideas.

People don't just wake up and like things in a vacuum. We're influenced by our formative years, by novelty, by challenge, by social bonds, by reward loops, by identity, by aesthetics, etc. None of that is accidental and companies spend MILLIONS of dollars and dedicate entire departments to figuring all of that out. Pretending it's all just "mysterious vibes" is how you end up defending systems that feel good purely because they remind you of when life was simpler and you didn't have bills, obligations, and adult brain chemistry.

Nobody's saying you can't enjoy your comfort food. Just don't pretend it's above examination. If your only defense of a preference is "don't think about it," what you're really admitting is that scrutiny might break the spell.

I can't imagine going through life with a thought process of, "I LIKE THEREFORE I CONSUME!".

Kirun said:

Huh? I can point to objective reasons why I like virtually every single video game in my "Top 20" or whatever sample size you want to use. Conversely, I can point to reasons why I dislike something, or even aspects I dislike about games I enjoy.

Understanding why we're drawn to things is literally the basis of psychology, marketing, product design, and the entire MMO genre. If developers didn't spend time understanding why players enjoy something, every game would be an unplayable mess of random ideas.

People don't just wake up and like things in a vacuum. We're influenced by our formative years, by novelty, by challenge, by social bonds, by reward loops, by identity, by aesthetics, etc. None of that is accidental and companies spend MILLIONS of dollars and dedicate entire departments to figuring all of that out. Pretending it's all just "mysterious vibes" is how you end up defending systems that feel good purely because they remind you of when life was simpler and you didn't have bills, obligations, and adult brain chemistry.

Nobody's saying you can't enjoy your comfort food. Just don't pretend it's above examination. If your only defense of a preference is "don't think about it," what you're really admitting is that scrutiny might break the spell.

I can't imagine going through life with a thought process of, "I LIKE THEREFORE I CONSUME!".

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I said trying to figure out why YOU like something is a waste of time.

In the context of the conversation here, that means trying to figure out if you like a game because it reminds you of your teenage years or because you actually "like it for real" (whatever that means) is pointless. If you like it, play it.

Figuring out why SOMEONE ELSE likes something is essential for marketers and psychologists, sure. But that's not what we've been talking about.

Arden said:

I said trying to figure out why YOU like something is a waste of time.

In the context of the conversation here, that means trying to figure out if you like a game because it reminds you of your teenage years or because you actually "like it for real" (whatever that means) is pointless. If you like it, play it.

Figuring out why SOMEONE ELSE likes something is essential for marketers and psychologists, sure. But that's not what we've been talking about.

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You're smuggling a completely different argument into the conversation.

Nobody here is telling people to sit in a dark room whispering, "But do I really like it?". This isn't therapy. The point isn't that individuals must psychoanalyze their preferences before logging in. The point is that developers and communities misinterpret nostalgia as proof of good game design and then act shocked when the project craters once the honeymoon wears off.

Understanding why people like something isn't naval-gazing, it's the only way to avoid building a product on an emotional illusion. If your audience isn't drawn to your mechanics, but to a memory/feeling of who they were 20-30 years ago, you're not building a game, you're building a shrine to an emotional response, and shrines don't retain players once the incense burns out.

That's why the psychology and understanding it matters. Same with asking the question of why you enjoyed those things beyond, "It gives me the tingle wingles!". It's not about telling people they shouldn’t enjoy themselves. It's about recognizing that "I like it, the end" is not a design philosophy, and nostalgia is not a sustainable business model. Pretending otherwise is how we get an endless parade of half-baked MMOs built on vibes and good intentions.

If the only defense a game has is, "Don't think about it, just feel it," then the feeling won't last, because it never does.