Monsters and Memories (Project_N) - Old School Indie MMO

Pharone

Pharone

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Flobee said:
There are a ton of issues with instancing that you're not accounting for. You completely lose control of the pace of loot entering the economy. You lose interaction between players that aren't grouped/guilded together (admittedly can be a good thing), fragmenting your community. You risk the world feeling empty as players are all in their own instances. Sharding limits this to a certain degree. Its not a costless solution by any means.

To a previous point about overworld "secret" leveling spots. Why couldn't you do the exact same thing with loot? The only kind of desirable loot doesn't have to be gear. Out of the way spots that a good for grinding crafting mats, bonus points if they're for consumables, for example.
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You can easily control the influx of gear while instancing by modifying the percentage drop rate of said item based on the number of instances currently open for that area. That way, the more instances open at any given time directly lowers the odds of getting the best gear to drop from that area.
 
mkopec

mkopec

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Mudflation will always be a problem especially in games that do not use the "no drop" tag for most of the items, which im assuming is what this game does. But there are many ways to control mudflation even without the use of "no drop" tags on items. For one instance is the dreaded durability, and if you dont like the durability stuff, you can use systems like infusion, where you take an item and infuse it into another to give it more power, more stats, etc... You can even have durability with infusing the same item into it fully restoring it. How bout faction rewards by handing in your gear for faction points or faction exp to some NPC. If you make the rewards awesome, people WILL turn in their items. YOu can constantly add in rewards to the faction venor too so they are always in a state of flux. There are many ways of removing items from economy. Im sure there are more. Im not a dev so its not my job of figuring this shit out. But since most MMOs today have instances, they handle this stuff just fine.
 
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vegetoeeVegetoee

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Instancing doesn't solve anything tho. It creates more problems. Now you have a hollow shell game with 10x more loot than intended and people rarely interact with each other. That's what killed MMOs, lack of interaction. I am glad this game is not doing that. You can do other things that obtain the same goals as instancing without making your game loot pinata 2.0.
 
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Kaines

Kaines

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Mrniceguy said:
You can address the "Premium camps" by simply having enough of them that there isn't a "premium camp"
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And there it is.... EVERY non-instance ball-licker always winds up in the same spot... MOAR CONTENT!!11!11! From a part-time indie-dev team PRAYING their EA allows them to go full time and STILL be one of the smallest teams ever to try something like this.

You can't fix stupid.
 
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vegetoeeVegetoee

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FFS man you can't get away from more content. That's the definition of gaming, you consumer content. There is no solution around that other than to not make a game.
 
mkopec

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vegetoeeVegetoee said:
FFS man you can't get away from more content. That's the definition of gaming, you consumer content. There is no solution around that other than to not make a game.
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Or you know, instance the content YOU DO HAVE and profit. So then everyone can consumer it :D
 
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Kirun

Kirun

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You don't need that much content if there are only 100 people playing your game. Checkmate, WoWtards!

Think About It GIF by Identity
 
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moonarchia

moonarchia

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vegetoeeVegetoee said:
Instancing doesn't solve anything tho. It creates more problems. Now you have a hollow shell game with 10x more loot than intended and people rarely interact with each other. That's what killed MMOs, lack of interaction. I am glad this game is not doing that. You can do other things that obtain the same goals as instancing without making your game loot pinata 2.0.
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Interaction died because discord and other superior ways to keep in touch with people that weren't limited to a specific game came about. That left only negative interactions like spawn camping, training, and other soft pvp trash that people do not want. If you can find a better fix than instancing, let us know. A lot of things have been tried in the past 25 years, and instancing remains king for a reason.
 
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mkopec

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moonarchia said:
Interaction died because discord and other superior ways to keep in touch with people that weren't limited to a specific game came about. That left only negative interactions like spawn camping, training, and other soft pvp trash that people do not want. If you can find a better fix than instancing, let us know. A lot of things have been tried in the past 25 years, and instancing remains king for a reason.
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Interaction is still alive and well in EQ prog servers. The thing that killed any sort of interaction was "dungeon finder" and cross realm dungeon finder in WOW. THATS what killed any sort of interaction.
 
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TJT

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Look, I loved Sebilis and Guk as much as anyone. There is a special place in my heart for truly massive amazing dungeons like that. Black Rock Depths is another I love a lot.

Am I going to go into Neo-Guk and sit on a waitlist so I can sit in a camp and grind mobs? I am absolutely not doing that. You need to instance you don't really have any other options here.

I mean, you can skip instancing I guess but you create the exact situation Everquest had. The very best spots were blocked by various obstacles. Such as keys or just difficulty in getting there (City of Mist, gay ass Siren's Grotto, and so on). So you had remote dungeons with no traffic and thus no groups at them. Or high traffic because of good items and accessibility (SolB, Guk). Sebilis being an outlier because it was in BFE but once you were out there you were committed for literal weeks at a time in many cases. If not far longer.

Knowing you are going to have THOSE EXACT SAME FUCKING PROBLEMS. Why would you do it?
 
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moonarchia

moonarchia

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mkopec said:
Interaction is still alive and well in EQ prog servers. The thing that killed any sort of interaction was "dungeon finder" and cross realm dungeon finder in WOW. THATS what killed any sort of interaction.
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I disagree. The EQ guilds I am in, and the Pantheon guilds, all use Discord to keep in touch rather than using in game channels. The only active guild I am in for WOW is the FOH board guild, so, yeah.
 
Kirun

Kirun

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mkopec said:
Interaction is still alive and well in EQ prog servers.
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It really isn't. Go try and play a TLP a month or two after release. It's hell trying to PUG once the initial "rush" is done. 90% of interactions at that point are with your guild and/or friends on Discord.
 
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mkopec

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moonarchia said:
I disagree. The EQ guilds I am in, and the Pantheon guilds, all use Discord to keep in touch rather than using in game channels. The only active guild I am in for WOW is the FOH board guild, so, yeah.
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I guess you could participate in how ever much you wanted. I had plenty of interactions with people in PUGs when I played TLP.
 
mkopec

mkopec

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Kirun said:
It really isn't. Go try and play a TLP a month or two after release. It's hell trying to PUG once the initial "rush" is done.
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Maybe its so today, but when I played a few years ago it was fine. But I didnt last long either so...
 
moonarchia

moonarchia

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mkopec said:
I guess you could participate in how ever much you wanted. I had plenty of interactions with people in PUGs when I played TLP.
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I don't pug, but outside of trade chat or pok/baz channels were mostly silent even in POP. EQ communication channels require you to be logged in, and are temporary. Discord lasts, and you can talk when not playing. It's just superior. I do talk to guildies in games when they are on, but beyond minor chit chat you want to be using discord.
 
Kaines

Kaines

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vegetoeeVegetoee said:
FFS man you can't get away from more content. That's the definition of gaming, you consumer content. There is no solution around that other than to not make a game.
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And YOU can't get away from the fact that content will ALWAYS be consumed faster than developers can push it out. Including by dad-vibes super casuals. BUT there is a fix for this, so that not every DadGuild002 is stepping on their dicks trying to enjoy the content in your game....

Too bad you are too dense to figure out what that is.
 
Mrniceguy

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TJT said:
Look, I loved Sebilis and Guk as much as anyone. There is a special place in my heart for truly massive amazing dungeons like that. Black Rock Depths is another I love a lot.

Am I going to go into Neo-Guk and sit on a waitlist so I can sit in a camp and grind mobs? I am absolutely not doing that. You need to instance you don't really have any other options here.

I mean, you can skip instancing I guess but you create the exact situation Everquest had. The very best spots were blocked by various obstacles. Such as keys or just difficulty in getting there (City of Mist, gay ass Siren's Grotto, and so on). So you had remote dungeons with no traffic and thus no groups at them. Or high traffic because of good items and accessibility (SolB, Guk). Sebilis being an outlier because it was in BFE but once you were out there you were committed for literal weeks at a time in many cases. If not far longer.

Knowing you are going to have THOSE EXACT SAME FUCKING PROBLEMS. Why would you do it?
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If they were making a 100% clone minus instancing you'd have a point, but their not.

Do you need there to be 10 picks of Seb or can you just have faster respawns and better world design. 55-60 In Kunark takes 5 times as long as 30-35. Yet Kunark has 10x the leveling places for 30-35 as it does 50-60.

Key/item can just be more spread out/randomized it's already a thing on EQ TLPs.
 
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TJT

TJT

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Did you even play during Kunark? I would bet both my balls the vast majority of players, all who made it to max level, didn't set foot in 2/3 of the Kunark dungeons. They went to Seb or Karnor's and only those two.

You had to go with guildies to far off spots. Even Chardok was low traffic.
 
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