Kithani
Vyemm Raider
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Make sure they’re low level camps and share drop tables with routine lowbie quests too
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Monsters and Memories (Project_N) - Old School Indie MMO
- Thread starter Flobee
- Start date
Hybrid woes aside. SK as it was had a pretty clear class fantasy, that a lot of people were into. Edgy boi and undead bro with spooky necro powers and a big 2h that's gonna cower your ass into running away while they beat you down.
New version may or may not be cool, we'll have to see. But even if it is, people are still gonna want the former. I know i was most looking forward to making a troll SK with the old design. Now ehh, I guess i don't have to be angsty about trolls being available anytime soon. Moody batman bluemage doesn't really fill the same vibe at all.
New version may or may not be cool, we'll have to see. But even if it is, people are still gonna want the former. I know i was most looking forward to making a troll SK with the old design. Now ehh, I guess i don't have to be angsty about trolls being available anytime soon. Moody batman bluemage doesn't really fill the same vibe at all.
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uniqueuser
Ahn'Qiraj Raider
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The EQ hybrid designs, even in EQ itself, were lazy and uninspired. I get to play a watered-down warrior with half-level spells? Much fantasy, such wow!
1/3rd of this game’s classes were that and even less. Any changes to make them more distinct will be an improvement.
1/3rd of this game’s classes were that and even less. Any changes to make them more distinct will be an improvement.
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uniqueuser
Ahn'Qiraj Raider
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I hadn’t followed the development of this game until recently, but my impression of Nick was that he was the guy who was sorta just along for the ride, his contributions seemed to be aimless tinkering and it wouldn’t surprise me if that’s a large part of the reason class design up to this point has been little more than a mishmash of mechanics cribbed directly from EQ and classic WoW.
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Quaid
Trump's Staff
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Yeah the only thing that's gotten backs up regarding the class updates is the SK change.
Divorcing SK from their inherently 'evil' nature simplifies faction concerns and gives more options when it comes to city layout and quest design.
Changing it was a good call for the reasons you gave too, but they should probably change the name of the class. It feels a bit like they're trying to have their cake and eat it too - attract the EQ nostalgic SK player, but deliver a gameplay and class fantasy experience that isn't all that similar to EQ at all.
Grim1
Ahn'Qiraj Raider
- 4,996
- 7,027
The only reason I had any interest in this game was to play an old school SK. I''ll try the new changes during the next free play session but I'm very doubtful that I will have any interest in the class. There is nothing else about this game that I think is worth the price so probably will be skipping it.
Glad you enjoy losing more potential subs in a game that is going to need every one of them.
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Siliconemelons
Ssraeszha Raider
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Right...it should not be a /Shadow Knight/ - Dark KNight, Death Knight, Blood Knight, Reaver, etc. etc.
Here I fed AI the description from the website removing the name and asking them to name it:
It did a lot of "thinking" and while it did so, it connected the lines to blue mage a lot and a variant form of beastmaster roles... never did it go "This is a SK/DK/Knight" etc.
The move from /they use darkness to fight evil/ is fine, moving them more into the Knight than the Shadow - and that is how I always RP'ed my SK/DK etc. anyhow - but the mechanical and thematic shift to monster hunter really is stepping completely out from practically ANYTHING "SK" and into a new class.
Essence Reaver
This is the perfect fantasy MMO class name for the described monster-hunter antihero.
An Essence Reaver is a cursed, morally gray outcast who hunts the most dangerous monsters not just with steel or spells, but by violently ripping out their raw essence (life force, monstrous power, primal abilities) and making it their own. They started as hunters but became something darker—part monster themselves—shunned by polite society yet feared and respected by those who need the biggest threats slain. The antihero vibe is baked in: every fight risks further corruption, but the power is addictive and necessary.
Essence Reaver stands out in an MMO because it’s instantly evocative, mechanically unique (the collectable monster-ability system becomes a huge identity and endgame chase), and perfectly captures that “I hunt monsters… by becoming one” antihero fantasy. It would look killer on a character select screen next to Demon Hunter, Death Knight, or Blood Hunter types, but with its own fresh twist.
If the devs ever added transmog sets styled after the monsters you’ve reaved the most, players would lose their minds. This class would print highlight reels.
This is the perfect fantasy MMO class name for the described monster-hunter antihero.
Why it fits the identity and lore
An Essence Reaver is a cursed, morally gray outcast who hunts the most dangerous monsters not just with steel or spells, but by violently ripping out their raw essence (life force, monstrous power, primal abilities) and making it their own. They started as hunters but became something darker—part monster themselves—shunned by polite society yet feared and respected by those who need the biggest threats slain. The antihero vibe is baked in: every fight risks further corruption, but the power is addictive and necessary.
How the mechanics map perfectly
- Drains, transfers, and debilitating effects: Core kit revolves around short-range, fast-casting siphons—rip life/mana/energy from a monster and either keep it or transfer it (self-heals, temporary buffs, or even debuff “echoes” that weaken the target further). Think rapid-fire essence lashes, blood boils that transfer debuffs, or “Essence Feedback” that returns damage as a DoT while slowing or silencing.
- Collectable abilities from monster encounters: This is the defining fantasy hook. Defeating certain monsters (world bosses, rare elites, event creatures) lets you permanently “reave” one of their signature abilities into your personal arsenal. Kill a frost giant → unlock a chilling grip chain. Slay a shadow dragon → gain a void-step teleport + drain. These are not random; you choose which essence to claim, creating a living “monster deck” you customize.
- Depth, upgrades, and scaling across the level range: Massive progression depth. Early game you have basic drains and a couple starter essences. Mid-to-late game you unlock essence-specific talent trees (Dragon Essence → fire/strength scaling; Undead Essence → life-drain and curse upgrades; Aberration Essence → chaotic debuff transfers). Essences can be upgraded, fused, or specialized (e.g., turn a basic drain into an AoE transfer or a single-target nuke). Full scaling from level 1–60/70/whatever cap with new passive bonuses, ultimate abilities, and even cosmetic “corruption” visual tiers.
- Fast-casting, short-range abilities: Pure agile spellblade fantasy—no long-range bows or staff sniping. You fight in melee or very close range with daggers, claws, essence whips, or ritual blades. Abilities have sub-1-second cast times, low cooldowns, and high mobility (dashes, blinks, or “essence surges” that reposition while draining). Feels like a high-skill rogue + warlock hybrid that rewards aggressive positioning and combo chains.
Essence Reaver stands out in an MMO because it’s instantly evocative, mechanically unique (the collectable monster-ability system becomes a huge identity and endgame chase), and perfectly captures that “I hunt monsters… by becoming one” antihero fantasy. It would look killer on a character select screen next to Demon Hunter, Death Knight, or Blood Hunter types, but with its own fresh twist.
If the devs ever added transmog sets styled after the monsters you’ve reaved the most, players would lose their minds. This class would print highlight reels.
Kithani
Vyemm Raider
- 2,219
- 3,151
This game isn’t EQ, we have an EQ emu for whatever era you’re obsessed with.
They’ve clearly been taking their own spin on stuff and some it I haven’t liked either. Wood Elf Shaman, Troll Druid, Ogre “Elementalist” (aka Ogre Magician… which I’m glad they’re finally actually fixing to be more distinct than copy/paste EQ).
I wonder if they took this direction from the beginning I wonder if SK would share its “starting area” with Necros
They’ve clearly been taking their own spin on stuff and some it I haven’t liked either. Wood Elf Shaman, Troll Druid, Ogre “Elementalist” (aka Ogre Magician… which I’m glad they’re finally actually fixing to be more distinct than copy/paste EQ).
I wonder if they took this direction from the beginning I wonder if SK would share its “starting area” with Necros
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Grim1
Ahn'Qiraj Raider
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That's fine. They can make any game they want. But the bait and switch doesn't work for me. I liked the idea of playing an old school SK in new areas.
Playing an emu is boring. Been there and did everything in those zones already. Why the fuck would I want to go back. That's for retards.
Anyways, it's disappointing but not that big a deal for me. I wasn't sure this game had legs anyways, and now their changes make it easy to move on.
Playing an emu is boring. Been there and did everything in those zones already. Why the fuck would I want to go back. That's for retards.
Anyways, it's disappointing but not that big a deal for me. I wasn't sure this game had legs anyways, and now their changes make it easy to move on.
Quaid
Trump's Staff
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Ya agreed.
They already don't frame Necromancers as inherently 'evil'. I bet no future cities get designed with 'evil class' areas or trainers, because that faction layer just won't exist.
Class based faction never made much sense to me outside of accounting for the existence of SKs anyway. It should be defined by race/religion, like Clerics in Classic EQ.
Kithani
Vyemm Raider
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- 3,151
I don’t mind it but I do think it does make sense for a few classes particularly Necro - I could see why they might be ostracized but at the same time that can be accomplished by locking their religion options which also makes sense
Burns
Naxxramas 1.0 Raider
- 9,130
- 17,710
What did SK have (that overlapped with Necro or was part of "necro" identity) that was actually useful in EQ? EQ SK pets died all the fucking time, mostly sucked, and could be annoying when pulling. MnM SK pets seemed better (at least at low level) but they will probably be difficult to balance if they start running into the same problems with getting owned by AoE at higher levels. Was SK fear ever useful? Maybe to help groups escape? Finally, while it wasn't part of the necro, maybe it will free them up to change Harm Touch. From what I remember of EQ, it could never get balanced, either it was OP or it sucked, depending on the xpac. MnM harm touch sucked.
So life taps, snare, and FD are what comes to mind? If they keep those, I don't see how it will play much different.
It sounds like they may lean more into the "soul" stealing side instead of the control undead side (which will be necro exclusive). The two classes will still be linked, like they are now, just with less overlap and spell line sharing (they can rename the overlap for flavor).
The proposed class changes look interesting across the board.
So life taps, snare, and FD are what comes to mind? If they keep those, I don't see how it will play much different.
It sounds like they may lean more into the "soul" stealing side instead of the control undead side (which will be necro exclusive). The two classes will still be linked, like they are now, just with less overlap and spell line sharing (they can rename the overlap for flavor).
The proposed class changes look interesting across the board.
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Siliconemelons
Ssraeszha Raider
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As a SK - from launch till OOW/GoD era...
The pet was very useful in various ways and tactics throughout the changes in EQ - it was mostly useful in soloing, secondary in pulling (depending on the era) - and in group it was "fine" it did some damage and if you used it, you usually could manage it.
Reverse kite with agro hold + running while pet did the work was a thing, I did it in PoValor on my horse, was safe and easy solo exp.
Lifetaps were never enough to "heal" in their standard lineup - only LifeLeech was a big thing and I used it for a very very long time because of its utility cast time etc.
When they re-hauled bash damage, 1h+shield was a very viable combo
HT was like you said never balanced, in classic through SoV it was just a, why not- beep =hurhur some dmg thing, it was okay to have even in soloing to try and live, but it was nowhere near LoH in its usefulness
SK's in PoP were really nicely fleshed out and balanced with the group heals/mana and their all-stacking debuffs were there as well, it was not bad- SKs always had utility as agro snaps vs anyone else throughout the entire range of play, and it held a spot. They were very self reliant, self invs, self lev, self buffs...
The pet was very useful in various ways and tactics throughout the changes in EQ - it was mostly useful in soloing, secondary in pulling (depending on the era) - and in group it was "fine" it did some damage and if you used it, you usually could manage it.
Reverse kite with agro hold + running while pet did the work was a thing, I did it in PoValor on my horse, was safe and easy solo exp.
Lifetaps were never enough to "heal" in their standard lineup - only LifeLeech was a big thing and I used it for a very very long time because of its utility cast time etc.
When they re-hauled bash damage, 1h+shield was a very viable combo
HT was like you said never balanced, in classic through SoV it was just a, why not- beep =hurhur some dmg thing, it was okay to have even in soloing to try and live, but it was nowhere near LoH in its usefulness
SK's in PoP were really nicely fleshed out and balanced with the group heals/mana and their all-stacking debuffs were there as well, it was not bad- SKs always had utility as agro snaps vs anyone else throughout the entire range of play, and it held a spot. They were very self reliant, self invs, self lev, self buffs...
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Quaid
Trump's Staff
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Ya I’m not surprised at all. it’s the right evolution from the EQ system. Players really shouldn’t have to avoid certain classes and their preferred gameplay style for faction reasons.
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TJT
Mr. Poopybutthole
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For real. All of the EQ hybrids were lazy. They were really cool for the time though. Metagaming such as it was forced class updates where the hybrids didn't really have a full identity until like Planes of Power.
It's been 27 years (fffuuuuuu) but I feel like some of you just don't remember how Ranger was for example. Vanilla ranger didn't even have double attack or any of the other standard dual wielding skills, nor were bows viable at all. People have fond memories of it anyway for some reason...
Shadow Knight was thematically awesome but it was really just a weaker warrior with excellent self-only utilities.
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Quaid
Trump's Staff
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The hybrids were all poorly conceived in early EQ, but you’re right in singling out the SK as particularly bad.
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