Monsters and Memories (Project_N) - Old School Indie MMO

MazeEq

MazeEq

Lord Nagafen Raider
244
169
Kithani said:
Nick’s version of the classes was literally “ok copy/paste the spell lists from p99 and maybe rename a couple classes”
Click to expand...
Let's not mention the endless testing, content, feedback from players that he did.

It's not just class design. The other dudes other than like Zukan didn't even know how to get to Fiona in Wyrmsbane.....

Gonna be the same as every other shitty mmorpg in modern gaming.
 
  • 1Moron
  • 1Like
Reactions: 1 users
Kirun

Kirun

Buzzfeed Editor
21,582
18,838
MazeEq said:
Let's not mention the endless testing, content, feedback from players that he did.
Click to expand...
No wonder his class design sucked then.

Taking class advice from fossils still clinging on to their glory years at Polk High was a recipe for disaster.
 
  • 3Like
  • 1Worf
Reactions: 3 users
GuardianX

GuardianX

Perpetually Pessimistic
<Bronze Donator>
8,190
21,424
It'll be interesting to see what they do with the class changes they have on their plate at least. Better or worse it needed to happen a couple years ago.

Now they are stuck trying to chase TTK and other metrics using a moving / unstable foundation for the next few months. 100% don't envy that challenge.
 
D

Drapdis

Peasant
52
63
GuardianX said:
It'll be interesting to see what they do with the class changes they have on their plate at least. Better or worse it needed to happen a couple years ago.

Now they are stuck trying to chase TTK and other metrics using a moving / unstable foundation for the next few months. 100% don't envy that challenge.
Click to expand...
Agree with that sentiment but I think you overestimate their metrics. Nothing about prior class design indicated they tracked ttk or did balancing based off data.
 
  • 1Worf
Reactions: 1 user
V

vegetoeeVegetoee

Trakanon Raider
156
130
THere was nothing wrong with copying P99 for classes. This game was made for the EQ audience after all. The issue is the refinement of said classes and the splitting up of the ranger. All things which can be overcome, but not when you fire the dude trying to overcome them.
 
Quaid

Quaid

Trump's Staff
12,574
7,178
vegetoeeVegetoee said:
THere was nothing wrong with copying P99 for classes. This game was made for the EQ audience after all.
Click to expand...

If your intent was to have a commercially viable product with a subscriber base able to support a skeleton team of 12 full-timers (10,000-15,000 subs) for an extended period of time, then ya there was something extremely fucking wrong with it.
 
  • 3Like
Reactions: 2 users
V

vegetoeeVegetoee

Trakanon Raider
156
130
Quaid said:
If your intent was to have a commercially viable product with a subscriber base able to support a skeleton team of 12 full-timers (10,000-15,000 subs) for an extended period of time, then ya there was something extremely fucking wrong with it.
Click to expand...
GTFO here! People are clamoring for the next iteration of EQ, so using EQ's classes a blueprint is fine. You people are perma-doomers. JFC.
 
  • 2Solidarity
Reactions: 1 users
Gravel

Gravel

Mr. Poopybutthole
47,144
170,550
Quaid said:
If your intent was to have a commercially viable product with a subscriber base able to support a skeleton team of 12 full-timers (10,000-15,000 subs) for an extended period of time, then ya there was something extremely fucking wrong with it.
Click to expand...
The crazy part is, you look at THJ and the amount of money it was apparently bringing in, and it does seem like there's a market for...something. Hell, if these devs were smart, they could've pivoted to just copying that. They're not bound by the Daybreak/Everquest IP shit, and could've just gone hog wild. Make a fun game instead of whatever grindy bullshit this game is copying from Everquest which very few people actually want anymore.
 
  • 2Like
  • 1Dislike
  • 1Truth!
Reactions: 3 users
Quaid

Quaid

Trump's Staff
12,574
7,178
Gravel said:
The crazy part is, you look at THJ and the amount of money it was apparently bringing in, and it does seem like there's a market for...something. Hell, if these devs were smart, they could've pivoted to just copying that. They're not bound by the Daybreak/Everquest IP shit, and could've just gone hog wild. Make a fun game instead of whatever grindy bullshit this game is copying from Everquest which very few people actually want anymore.
Click to expand...

THJ's success supports the idea that the market desires an evolution of EQ itself, rather than a rehashing of EQ.
 
  • 2Like
Reactions: 1 users
Siliconemelons

Siliconemelons

Ssraeszha Raider
14,776
23,806
Many are trying to be the akshuahly.meme guy here...

But you have to, in a holistic way look at the situation that this game is. Heck, just go start at page one.

Everything "about" this game is to be "Classic EQ with a new world and setting and updated game engine, but to recapture the classic EQ feel" - is that quote written down and promised, no... is it the essence of how this all started? yes... heck the name /memories/ points to it- can it be explained away with some RP garbage sure, but the title is a play on D&D and also wrapping in that it is a nostalgic based game (on classic EQ)

It got tracktion because the one dude was a former EQ dev, did a lot of open and honest Q&A about what it was like working on EQ - and most people just kinda took "old EQ!" as classic EQ...but he was not a dev on /classic/ EQ...but none the less.

No one had a problem with "Ranger needs unique spells and stuff, not just 1/3rd level Druid spells and 2/3 warrior abilities... X + Y done" - what people have problems with is when that goes into the realm of "We cant just have it be druid and warrior, so ANYTHING AND EVERYTHING druid and warrior is gone- and must be RAAANNGGGEERRRR" when... ranger /is/ druid/warrior in every aspect of traditional fantasy tropes...

And that is the argument / upset / bradmad aspect of this - they are moving from "Classic Fantasy Trope" based, to "Modern Fantasy Tropes" for every class - and yes, that is VERY apparent in the Shadow Knight changes. So that does go along with what this game was "shown to be" when it started vs what we are at now...

Again the complaint is "feels" based until we get into the "real game" - but.. that really should not be discounted as "the feeling(tm)" IS what this game was "promoted" to "fill"
 
  • 1Like
Reactions: 1 user
V

vegetoeeVegetoee

Trakanon Raider
156
130
Quaid said:
THJ's success supports the idea that the market desires an evolution of EQ itself, rather than a rehashing of EQ.
Click to expand...
Right, and the evolution isn't a game that plays itself. It's the old-school hardcore EQ we all knew and still play today. That's what MNM is trying to be, minus the QOL shit you people whine about all the time.
 
GuardianX

GuardianX

Perpetually Pessimistic
<Bronze Donator>
8,190
21,424
Looking at THJ and not seeing the message of why it did well is also a little laughable. Every class in EQ has issues, THJ let you overcome those issues by pairing classes with counterparts that broke the game or fixed the issues. It also let you be the decider of your entertainment via crafting your class in your way.

Copying EQ wasn't terrible in concept but they didn't fucking copy EQ entirely, they halfassed it, it's part of the reason why every class is half done and without direction.

The issue with MNM is that they didn't have a direction and they tried to steal a direction from another game AND, when they did steal that direction, they only stole 1/2 the directions.
 
Hekotat

Hekotat

FoH nuclear response team
13,203
13,654
You guys are complaining before we even see changes. Atleast wait for the changes to drop before going feral.
 
  • 2Like
  • 1Solidarity
Reactions: 2 users
Siliconemelons

Siliconemelons

Ssraeszha Raider
14,776
23,806
The Creature GIF
 
  • 1Worf
Reactions: 1 user
Quaid

Quaid

Trump's Staff
12,574
7,178
Speculating about class change specifics is useless. We'll see when they get here. I'm just glad the team recognized the need for an identity and gameplay pass, as well as the generic utility filler abilities most kits were bloated with.

Next they need to come to terms with two simple truths:

1. A player should experience zero barriers to ending their gameplay session. They should be able to do this on a moment's notice without meeting any pre-conditions or experiencing any penalty or risk.

2. No player should be able to effectively end another player's gameplay session by them ending their own.

These two issues are non-negotiable realities, and if they are not accounted for player retention will suffer greatly. My solutions below, though I'm sure there are others.

First, at a bare minimum every player needs the ability to Evac themselves with a long cast time ability to a safe spot within any zone, but I'd advocate for the ability to gate back to a defined home destination on a long cooldown (~60 minutes). There should be absolutely zero barriers to doing this - no potions, reagents, etc.

Second, any two players should be able to summon a third player within their own zone on a relatively short cooldown (~15 minutes). A consumable barrier could be used here, but I wouldn't use one. If I did it'd be extremely common and inexpensive.

None of the other QOL complaints matter as much as these two things. Not Spellbooks, not picky merchants, not UI issues. All of that is borderline irrelevant in comparison.
 
Last edited:
  • 1Dislike
Reactions: 1 user
moonarchia

moonarchia

The Scientific Shitlord
<Bronze Donator>
30,631
60,461
Siliconemelons said:
Many are trying to be the akshuahly.meme guy here...

But you have to, in a holistic way look at the situation that this game is. Heck, just go start at page one.

Everything "about" this game is to be "Classic EQ with a new world and setting and updated game engine, but to recapture the classic EQ feel" - is that quote written down and promised, no... is it the essence of how this all started? yes... heck the name /memories/ points to it- can it be explained away with some RP garbage sure, but the title is a play on D&D and also wrapping in that it is a nostalgic based game (on classic EQ)

It got tracktion because the one dude was a former EQ dev, did a lot of open and honest Q&A about what it was like working on EQ - and most people just kinda took "old EQ!" as classic EQ...but he was not a dev on /classic/ EQ...but none the less.

No one had a problem with "Ranger needs unique spells and stuff, not just 1/3rd level Druid spells and 2/3 warrior abilities... X + Y done" - what people have problems with is when that goes into the realm of "We cant just have it be druid and warrior, so ANYTHING AND EVERYTHING druid and warrior is gone- and must be RAAANNGGGEERRRR" when... ranger /is/ druid/warrior in every aspect of traditional fantasy tropes...

And that is the argument / upset / bradmad aspect of this - they are moving from "Classic Fantasy Trope" based, to "Modern Fantasy Tropes" for every class - and yes, that is VERY apparent in the Shadow Knight changes. So that does go along with what this game was "shown to be" when it started vs what we are at now...

Again the complaint is "feels" based until we get into the "real game" - but.. that really should not be discounted as "the feeling(tm)" IS what this game was "promoted" to "fill"
Click to expand...
Project N was a direct call back to Project M as well. Just saying.

I wish these guys well, but I will not be giving them any $$$ until they work out how to prevent soft pvp aka spawn camping and all that shit. EQ-likes are still fun to me, but I know how small that market actually is, and it is definitely shrinking by the day.
 
  • 1Like
  • 1Solidarity
Reactions: 1 users
You must log in or register to reply here.