NBA : 1992 Dream Team vs. 2012 Dream Team

Tarrant

Tarrant

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After reading the poll results I see Ham doesn't know nearly as much about basketball as I thought he did.

Adam12_sl said:
MJ and Kobe wouldn't be a wash. Kobe would probably end up catching the "flu" by halftime and that would be his night. If we're talking about just the '92 version here, and not their primes, then Scottie is at the 3 while Bird is on the bench, and they would just sick Scottie on CP3, he'd extend his arms, and no passes would be made. Barkley and Malone would definitely be on the floor at the same time early so they could chop block LBJ, ending his career while Gaige got arrested in the cheap seats for groping a 14 year old.

I don't even need to get into the "battle" at Center. '92 wins 9 out of 10 times, with the 1 time being when MJ and Barkley were out gambling.
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I lol'ed.

And yeah for as great as LBJ is, Barkley would had been bouncing him all over the place while laughing at him until LBJ got so pissed he'd take a swing and get ejected. I'm not saying Barkley is better than LBJ, but Barkley had his ways of getting into your head and I feel many people undersell just how good he was. The only reason the guy doesn't have a ring is because of Jordan.
 
Slaythe

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Titan_sl said:
Kobe vs Jordan. Lets be realistic here, and I HATE Kobe. But they are fucking just a like. Both in their Prime is still almost a wash. Kobe is going to go down as one of the top 10 players of all time. Just because Jordan goes down as the best(Or one of the top 3 dependent on who you ask. The "Laughable" Disparity, realistically, is not there)
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No dude. No. Kobe was the second best player on 5 championship teams. Nothing about his production warrants him ever being in the same discussion as the all time elite.
 
Slaythe

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I mean. Fuck. If you want disparity just look at their shooting percentages. 45 vs 50 career. Kobe peaks at 47 once. Jordan shot above 50% from the floor 6 times! As a guard!
 
Haast

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Slaythe_sl said:
No dude. No. Kobe was the second best player on 5 championship teams. Nothing about his production warrants him ever being in the same discussion as the all time elite.
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Exactly. Kobe isn't the best player of his era. It's debatable if he is even the best SG of his era (Dwayne Wade would like a word). With MJ, the debate is whether or not he is hands down the best player ever.

Also Titan: CP3 vs Magic... a wash? Only if you are considering that Magic had fucking HIV and was no longer playing in the NBA. I'd take HIV Magic over CP3 anyway. Since I didn't see you qualify it, I have to assume you are fucking retarded. Magic Johnson could play any position on the court effectively, re-defined the point guard position and won 5 championships. Non-HIV Magic would beat the shit out of you with a big smile on his face for even mentioning CP3 in the same sentence as him. I guess you could debate CP3 vs Stockton. CP3 has thethird highest assist/game ratio... trailing Magic and Stockton. Get back to me when CP3 maintains that ratio for 19 FUCKING SEASONS like Stockton did. He's only got... 12 to go.
 
Gaige

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Tarrant_sl said:
And yeah for as great as LBJ is, Barkley would had been bouncing him all over the place
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6'8 260 and fast as fuck vs 6'4 250 and not that fast? I don't see it. The '92 team would win but LBJ would give them all sorts of problems. In '92 you were either an athlete or a bruiser... LBJ is both. He is like a mix of Barkley, Jordan and Magic.
 
Slaythe

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Haast_sl said:
Exactly. Kobe isn't the best player of his era. It's debatable if he is even the best SG of his era (Dwayne Wade would like a word). With MJ, the debate is whether or not he is hands down the best player ever.

Also Titan: CP3 vs Magic... a wash? Only if you are considering that Magic had fucking HIV and was no longer playing in the NBA. I'd take HIV Magic over CP3 anyway. Since I didn't see you qualify it, I have to assume you are fucking retarded. Magic Johnson could play any position on the court effectively, re-defined the point guard position and won 5 championships. Non-HIV Magic would beat the shit out of you with a big smile on his face for even mentioning CP3 in the same sentence as him. I guess you could debate CP3 vs Stockton. CP3 has thethird highest assist/game ratio... trailing Magic and Stockton. Get back to me when CP3 maintains that ratio for 19 FUCKING SEASONS like Stockton did. He's only got... 12 to go.
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I think Magic is the best PG of all time. Combine his production with his success and that's what you get. I don't take as much offense to the claim that he and CP3 are pretty close to one another though. Paul isat the very leastin the discussion of top 5 PGs ever (I think he's the second best, personally). His last 6 seasons have all been at an elite level. 5 of them are better than any single season Stockton ever had and he's playing the best basketball of his career this year. Now does he keep that up for another decade? Who knows...in all likelihood probably not, but talent wise he's right up there with Magic. The stats back up that claim.

The Kobe/Jordan wash was the biggest WTF moment of that post.
 
Tarrant

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Gaige_sl said:
6'8 260 and fast as fuck vs 6'4 250 and not that fast? I don't see it. The '92 team would win but LBJ would give them all sorts of problems. In '92 you were either an athlete or a bruiser... LBJ is both. He is like a mix of Barkley, Jordan and Magic.
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Barkley would have knocked him down on his ass multiple times in the paint. He did it his whole career against larger guys. Deal with it.
 
LiquidDeath

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Slaythe_sl said:
I think Magic is the best PG of all time. Combine his production with his success and that's what you get. I don't take as much offense to the claim that he and CP3 are pretty close to one another though. Paul isat the very leastin the discussion of top 5 PGs ever (I think he's the second best, personally). His last 6 seasons have all been at an elite level. 5 of them are better than any single season Stockton ever had and he's playing the best basketball of his career this year. Now does he keep that up for another decade? Who knows...in all likelihood probably not, but talent wise he's right up there with Magic. The stats back up that claim.

The Kobe/Jordan wash was the biggest WTF moment of that post.
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I see where you are coming from, but it all depends on what you want out of your point guard. Stockton is still my #2 ever because 1) Magic, duh and 2) he was the best ever at distributing the ball to other players to score i.e. the exact definition of point guard. I don't think CP3 is shit or anything, but Stockton did exactly everything that you need (or even want) a point to do and he did it at a high level for his entire, very long career.
 
Slaythe

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Stockton's career I can't argue with. Dude was 40 and still playing at an extremely high level. But I don't see how you could say Paul doesn't doall those same thingsplus more.

You link above he's got the 3rd highest average APG ever but when you examine the stats you'll see he turns the ball over nearly half as much as Stockton did. So what's better? 10.5 APG turning the ball over 21% of the time or 9.8 APG turning over 13% of the time.

I mean, you want to tell me that Stockton was the perfect facilitator and I'd argue that based on assists and turnovers alone, Paul might be better. Now again, will he be better over a 20 year career...who knows? But it's hard to argue with those stats when you're talking about what the PG means to a game. And this doesn't even dive at all into Paul's scoring ability.
 
SimSimSalabim

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Well one of the main advantages '92 has over '12 is depth, and that would be eliminated by a single 48 or 40 minute game. Depth would be irrelevant.

In the end though, the '92 team can roll out Robinson, Malone(or Barkley), Pippen, Jordan and Magic and those 5 would counter anything the '12 team could possibly try to do offensively. Even if '12 goes position-less and rolls with like James, Durant, 'Melo, Bryant and Paul it wouldn't matter because Robinson would own the paint and the lane and that leaves '12 with 2 guys whose entire games are creating their own shot. If '12 tries to just shoot 3s all day '92 might have to go a bit smaller and swap maybe Malone or Barkley for Clyde and let Pippen be the 4.

Either way the point is that defensively '12 can match up with '92 but the reverse isn't true. They would be forced to play Chandler (who i think we can all agree is a damn decent defender) at Center to counter Robinson, as he is the only one on the '12 team that can potentially stop the admiral. James would then be forced to guard PF Malone or Barkley. Durant is tall and long, but not strong enough to defend Malone or Barkley. Paul is a good defender as well and he would probably be on the ball/Magic 95% of the time, but how well can he match up against a guy 8 inches taller than him? And this leaves Durant and Bryant to guard Jordan and (most likely) Pippen. Even assuming Durant can guard either one, Kobe is a liability on both. Old man Bryant at this point has no chance of keeping up with almost in his prime MJ, and he is too small and probably too slow for even Pippen. And there is absolutely nobody on the bench they can put in that would be a defensive upgrade.

TL;DR - Defense is where the difference lies. '12 team only has 3 maybe 4 good defenders and no way of matching up.
 
Caal

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A quick glance at the rosters, and the biggest difference I see is the glass. Barkley/Robinson would play volleyball on the backboard the entire game.
 
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Titan_sl

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Haast_sl said:
Also Titan: CP3 vs Magic... a wash? Only if you are considering that Magic had fucking HIV and was no longer playing in the NBA. I'd take HIV Magic over CP3 anyway. Since I didn't see you qualify it, I have to assume you are fucking retarded. Magic Johnson could play any position on the court effectively, re-defined the point guard position and won 5 championships. Non-HIV Magic would beat the shit out of you with a big smile on his face for even mentioning CP3 in the same sentence as him. I guess you could debate CP3 vs Stockton. CP3 has thethird highest assist/game ratio... trailing Magic and Stockton. Get back to me when CP3 maintains that ratio for 19 FUCKING SEASONS like Stockton did. He's only got... 12 to go.
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I clearly stated it would be fun to watch, but Magic has the advantage, in two different areas. But are you really telling me it wouldn't be fun to watch? It would be alot like Rose against LeBron. CP3 would make some things happen, but in the end, Magic is just too good.

And seriously, Kobe was only the second best player on those championship teams because it was fucking Shaq. He was clearly the best player on his team with Pao, and he was older. Shaq was just ridiculous back then though. Imagine if he had stayed in shape. Thats like saying Pippen wasn't top 50 because he wasn't even the top player on his team... Come the fuck on. Jordan was good, hell, he was GREATNESS PERSONIFIED!!!!!! but, to say that Kobe wouldn't be able to keep up with him on both the offensive and defensive sides is just plain idiotic. Jordan is better yes, but a game featuring this much size? Yeah, It wouldn't flow through Jordan anyway.

LeBron/KD vs Pippen/Barkley/Malone.. How do you not go with 12' on this? LeBron is one of the best defenders in the league, and more athletic than any of them to boot. KD is quicker than any of them, and is a pure shooter. Is the 92' Team going to just let the 12' Team shoot 3's so they don't get blown by? With 2 40+ % Shooters from behind the arc(We are talking about their Prime, and LeBron is without a doubt in it. His last 3 seasons, he has been pretty efficient from the 3)?

The biggest advantage is clearly the Center spot. The only hope they really have is playing Melo or Kevin Love, and just draining more 3's while Robertson is in the Lane. Thats not going to be very effective on the defensive end though, where he would absolutely eat them alive. But that can be contained(Let Robertson kill you, and deal with the other 4).

Over 48 minutes, 12' Is going to be much fresher, and if anything their speed is going to start giving them a decent advantage. Training today compared to then is a completely different beast. To just assume they are going to win every game(92' Team, with a few odd losses), is just trying to glorify 90's basketball. 5 Hall of Famers vs... 4 Hall of Famers(or 5 if they went a bit small to use the speed advantage with Melo). 92' Advantage - Size, rebounding, Passing.. 12' Advantage - Speed, Athleticism, Shooting(Outside of the Lane).....

Now if they went full depth.. 92 Team would probably win every single time. Once you get past the first 5 Players on 12' Roster, there isnt much back there. But a lot of players still to have their primes come and go, and we have no idea just how well they can play. Its really not that unrealistic is all I am saying.
 
SimSimSalabim

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You called The Admirial "Robertson" twice...You think 33 year old banged up Kobe Bryant could keep up with 28 year old more or less prime of his career Michael Jordan who was in the middle of his first three-peat.....and you called Carmelo Anthony a future hall of famer. Your opinions have virtually no credibility.
 
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Charles_sl

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I think the 1992 team has the game.

James is great, Durant too, they are also built differently than the guys on the other team. With that said, the 1992 team has so many good big guys, Robinson, Ewing, Malone, Barkley. I seriously doubt that James and Durant are going to have their best games while they are facing guys like that, especially with the rougher play that the 1992 team would be using, it's just going to be too hard for them to deal with and have a really good game.

The 1992 team is going to have an easier time on offense too, their big guys especially, who is going to guard Robinson and Ewing? Chandler, sure. Love? I don't know, maybe. I think Chandler is going to be worn down and beat up by all of the big guys on the 1992 team, he's going to need help. That means is probably going to come from, who else, James of course. With James having to help prevent the 1992 big guys from scoring 40 points, that's going to leave more opportunities for the smaller guys, and when one of your "smaller guys" is Michael Jordan... Yeah. I think the key to victory is the difference between the big guys on each team, it's going to make things much easier for the 1992 team and make each game an uphill climb for the 2012 team from the very beginning.

1992 wins in my view but both of them are great teams. LeBron is awesome, Durant is awesome, Bryant is awesome, Paul is awesome. But Chandler and Love aren't going to be able to keep up with Robinson and Ewing, even Malone and Barkley would be troublesome.
 
Araysar

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Titan_sl said:
I clearly stated it would be fun to watch, but Magic has the advantage, in two different areas. But are you really telling me it wouldn't be fun to watch? It would be alot like Rose against LeBron. CP3 would make some things happen, but in the end, Magic is just too good.

And seriously, Kobe was only the second best player on those championship teams because it was fucking Shaq. He was clearly the best player on his team with Pao, and he was older. Shaq was just ridiculous back then though. Imagine if he had stayed in shape. Thats like saying Pippen wasn't top 50 because he wasn't even the top player on his team... Come the fuck on. Jordan was good, hell, he was GREATNESS PERSONIFIED!!!!!! but, to say that Kobe wouldn't be able to keep up with him on both the offensive and defensive sides is just plain idiotic. Jordan is better yes, but a game featuring this much size? Yeah, It wouldn't flow through Jordan anyway.

LeBron/KD vs Pippen/Barkley/Malone.. How do you not go with 12' on this? LeBron is one of the best defenders in the league, and more athletic than any of them to boot. KD is quicker than any of them, and is a pure shooter. Is the 92' Team going to just let the 12' Team shoot 3's so they don't get blown by? With 2 40+ % Shooters from behind the arc(We are talking about their Prime, and LeBron is without a doubt in it. His last 3 seasons, he has been pretty efficient from the 3)?

The biggest advantage is clearly the Center spot. The only hope they really have is playing Melo or Kevin Love, and just draining more 3's while Robertson is in the Lane. Thats not going to be very effective on the defensive end though, where he would absolutely eat them alive. But that can be contained(Let Robertson kill you, and deal with the other 4).

Over 48 minutes, 12' Is going to be much fresher, and if anything their speed is going to start giving them a decent advantage. Training today compared to then is a completely different beast. To just assume they are going to win every game(92' Team, with a few odd losses), is just trying to glorify 90's basketball. 5 Hall of Famers vs... 4 Hall of Famers(or 5 if they went a bit small to use the speed advantage with Melo). 92' Advantage - Size, rebounding, Passing.. 12' Advantage - Speed, Athleticism, Shooting(Outside of the Lane).....

Now if they went full depth.. 92 Team would probably win every single time. Once you get past the first 5 Players on 12' Roster, there isnt much back there. But a lot of players still to have their primes come and go, and we have no idea just how well they can play. Its really not that unrealistic is all I am saying.
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Bro, were you even alive in '92?
 
A

Adam12

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Your underrating of Pippen is insane. Dude was probably the 2nd best player in the NBA for a half decade.
 
Szlia

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Layman questions: How fast were these '92 big men? And am I wrong to assume the game is faster now than it was 20 years ago?
 
Araysar

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Its a bit faster because the handcheck rule appeared some time around 2004. This rule also made it way easier to score and subsequently resulted in players playing a lot less defense (and thus being suckier at it).
 
Slaythe

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Kobe got those last two championships because of Gasol. Not the other way around. Looks at the stats. Gasol was the better player.
 
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