Sterling
El Presidente
- 13,028
- 7,945
NBA 2012-13 Season Thread - Crown The Heat!
- Thread starter Araxen
- Start date
Daezuel
Potato del Grande
- 22,926
- 48,502
It's true, Azeth must have thought I was talking about him with my post in the Castlevania Lords of Shadow 2 thread so he ran here to come back with the, "NUH UH YOU ARE," post. (read it with his shitty Bawston accent in mind)
- 3,389
- 141
Go back to the hockey thread Araysar. No jimmies to be rustled here.
Kobe was never the best player on any of the Lakers championship teams. He gets credit from me for his longevity, but he won championships thanks to Shaq, Gasol and Phil not the other way around. He has been an all star level talent for 16 straight years and that's very impressive, but he isn't the elite of the elite that the world thinks he is. And LeBron is without question the best player we've seen since Jordan.
Fine you rustled em a bit.
Kobe was never the best player on any of the Lakers championship teams. He gets credit from me for his longevity, but he won championships thanks to Shaq, Gasol and Phil not the other way around. He has been an all star level talent for 16 straight years and that's very impressive, but he isn't the elite of the elite that the world thinks he is. And LeBron is without question the best player we've seen since Jordan.
Fine you rustled em a bit.
- 3,389
- 141
Saying that LA doesn't win those titles without Kobe is equivalent to saying any championship team doesn't win without their second best player. I'm not arguing that he had no impact on those teams. I'm just saying he wasn't the best player, which is pretty easily backed up statistically.
We can get into this in detail if you want, but I already know how the argument goes because I've done it too many times. I'll quote a bunch of stuff like TS%, rebound and assist rate, points per possession and turnover % and you'll dismiss all of it because you're a fan. It really isn't worth it.
However, even with straight box score per game stats Kobe doesn't touch LeBron's production. I think you'd have to be blind to argue that otherwise.
We can get into this in detail if you want, but I already know how the argument goes because I've done it too many times. I'll quote a bunch of stuff like TS%, rebound and assist rate, points per possession and turnover % and you'll dismiss all of it because you're a fan. It really isn't worth it.
However, even with straight box score per game stats Kobe doesn't touch LeBron's production. I think you'd have to be blind to argue that otherwise.
hahaha. i don't have a good accent, that really stereotypical sound comes from certain areas almost exclusively.
- 3,389
- 141
Looking back I can see how this statement is a little harsh. Kobe was a big part of those teams but Shaq and Gasol were better players. I should have worded it differently.
Daezuel
Potato del Grande
- 22,926
- 48,502
Kobe was the best defender, best assist guy, and best closer on all those teams. Prime Kobe was absolutely the elite of the elite. No need to diminish him to make other players look good. He has PLENTY of faults, but who doesn't?
He was equivalent to their best player. A guy that before Kobe couldn't win. You couldn't count on Shaq to close games because of his free throw issues.
I have no interest to get into this derail, but you're wrong. (I assume you watched all those playoff games and almost every regular season game that I have during all those years?)
He was equivalent to their best player. A guy that before Kobe couldn't win. You couldn't count on Shaq to close games because of his free throw issues.
I have no interest to get into this derail, but you're wrong. (I assume you watched all those playoff games and almost every regular season game that I have during all those years?)
- 3,389
- 141
I grew up in CA and the Lakers were my childhood team prior to moving to the midwest. My favorite player ever is Eddie Jones. I watched all those games.
I can post that one article again that disproves the "closer" thing if you want, but again, I've done that before. Kobe isn't anywhere near as clutch as people think he is. He's just taken a whole shit ton of televised end of game shots. Some of those have to fall.
We can end this that's fine. But I have to say, statistically,you're wrong. Now you can argue your basketball watching mind trumps that all you want, butstatisticallyShaq and Gasol were superior. AndstatisticallyKobe isn't the closer you think he is.
Now disregard stats and you're probably right. Lol.
I can post that one article again that disproves the "closer" thing if you want, but again, I've done that before. Kobe isn't anywhere near as clutch as people think he is. He's just taken a whole shit ton of televised end of game shots. Some of those have to fall.
We can end this that's fine. But I have to say, statistically,you're wrong. Now you can argue your basketball watching mind trumps that all you want, butstatisticallyShaq and Gasol were superior. AndstatisticallyKobe isn't the closer you think he is.
Now disregard stats and you're probably right. Lol.
TheBeagle
JunkiesNetwork Donor
- 8,534
- 29,408
WTF, is this real life right now? Gasol? His choke artistry in the 2011 Playoff's was all-time bad.
Daezuel
Potato del Grande
- 22,926
- 48,502
Clutch stats starting when? Shooting at the basket is not the only clutch thing someone can do in a basketball game. They don't even get close to winning without Kobe those years. I've seen Kobe fail more often than succeed. That happens with just about EVERYONE. How many years did Jordan play? How many titles did he win? Even the best player ever didn't win them all, the important thing is they weren't afraid to try.
If you want to boil down Kobe's greatness to clutch shooting stats over a 17 year career then I don't know what to say to you.
Statistically, I don't think you know what you're talking about. Shooting percentages don't tell even half the story. Gasol was never better than Kobe, that is laughable. Does Kobe win without him? No. Has Gasol had better games like game 7 of the 2010 finals? Of course.
If you want to boil down Kobe's greatness to clutch shooting stats over a 17 year career then I don't know what to say to you.
Statistically, I don't think you know what you're talking about. Shooting percentages don't tell even half the story. Gasol was never better than Kobe, that is laughable. Does Kobe win without him? No. Has Gasol had better games like game 7 of the 2010 finals? Of course.
- 3,389
- 141
Yes. A player putting up 20/11/4 on 54% shooting while getting to the line 7 times on 13 total shots is doing more to help their team win than someone going 29/6/6 with 8 attempts on 22 shots. This isn't rocket science.
Does that team win a championship without Kobe? Of course not. Do they win without Gasol? Same answer.
Rengak
Blackwing Lair Raider
- 2,879
- 2,761
Gaige
Legal Ephebophile
- 1,912
- 116
Certainly didn't work last year, did it?
About the Kobe garbage it's obvious:
Shaq leaves next year 11th in West. Second year without Shaq first round loss, third year without Shaq first round loss. Trade for Gasol make finals and lose, then win Finals twice. Gasol plays shitty and you have two second round ass whippings including a sweep. Trade for Howard and Nash, Kobe hates to share the ball so they suck plus D'Antoni is a scrub. Kobe gets hurt, first round sweep.
If Kobe is so good how come they were so garbage without Shaq/Gasol? They went from 56-26 with Shaq to like 34-48 the next year, lol.
At least LeBron's shitty Cavs teams were winning 60+ games and making it to the second round/ECF consistently.
About the Kobe garbage it's obvious:
Shaq leaves next year 11th in West. Second year without Shaq first round loss, third year without Shaq first round loss. Trade for Gasol make finals and lose, then win Finals twice. Gasol plays shitty and you have two second round ass whippings including a sweep. Trade for Howard and Nash, Kobe hates to share the ball so they suck plus D'Antoni is a scrub. Kobe gets hurt, first round sweep.
If Kobe is so good how come they were so garbage without Shaq/Gasol? They went from 56-26 with Shaq to like 34-48 the next year, lol.
At least LeBron's shitty Cavs teams were winning 60+ games and making it to the second round/ECF consistently.
Enzee
Trakanon Raider
- 2,197
- 715
Only with the Heat could 3 consecutive Finals appearances and only 1 ring be considered a 'failure' heh. And only an idiot like Gaige would think there's another team setup out there that would immediately take Lebron to the finals AND win next year, versus a team that won 27 games in a row and is in the finals for the 3rd consecutive year.
One game against the next best team in the league where they BARELY lose and he's mad at the heat.. Jordan's bulls didn't sweep every fucking team they played the years they won the championships, hardly any team has ever been close to being that dominate.
One game against the next best team in the league where they BARELY lose and he's mad at the heat.. Jordan's bulls didn't sweep every fucking team they played the years they won the championships, hardly any team has ever been close to being that dominate.