NBA 2015-2016 Season thread

Ambiturner

Ambiturner

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Woolygimp_sl said:
I said shooting big men. Big men. He's closer to Dirk's/Abdul-Jabar's level than he is Griffins/Howards. He is a career 87.5% free throw shooter. That's about 2.5% less than Steph Curry, and you're arguing with me? The guy wasn't a traditional big, he spaced the floor and played to take those 12-14 foot 2's.
This is one of my favorite players of all time. I've seen him play so many times I can't remember. He does his little turnaround fadeaway about halfway to the 3pt line and they go in about 60% of the time.

There's a video of an interview with Pierce of Rondo with KG doing shots in the background. Guy made 30 in a row from 10+ feet.

He's an elite shooter mid range shooter. That WAS his game.
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If you're talking about only short-mid range jumpers then sure, KG was pretty good. There's been a ton of guys that can hit 12 footers consistently so I don't see why you think Garnett's special there. No way he's even on the same planet as Dirk when it comes to shooting of any kind.

And KG's career free throw is 79%. No idea where you pulled that 87.5% number from.
 
Blitz

Blitz

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Woolygimp_sl said:


Keep in mind, it's not illegal for owners/management to fix games for ratings. Just like wrestling, they can pretty much dictate whichever outcome they'd like. I think that happened a LOT in the David Stern era, and it looks like it's died down a bit since he stepped down.
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The Lakers-Kings game 6 was an absolute known catastrophe, Jewboy Stern definitely had the fix in there. Was so fucking blatantly obvious to watch, all the rest of your stuff... I didn't look at.

Btw...

"Warriors cannot win without Steph Curry".
 
Slaythe

Slaythe

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Oh man a quote from Shaq saying Pierce is really "the truth" I'm convinced wooly that's some hard evidence.

The reason Pierce wasn't clutch is because he didn't make end of game shots at a very high percentage, despite a few highlight plays making people like you think otherwise.

Go ahead and paste some random shit from some article you google that says otherwise though.
 
Drakurii

Drakurii

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Slaythe_sl said:
Oh man a quote from Shaq saying Pierce is really "the truth" I'm convinced wooly that's some hard evidence.

The reason Pierce wasn't clutch is because he didn't make end of game shots at a very high percentage, despite a few highlight plays making people like you think otherwise.

Go ahead and paste some random shit from some article you google that says otherwise though.
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Maybe that's how Shaq feels, people are allowed to have an opinion.

Slaythe_sl said:
Harden was right there with Curry for MVP last season and he was just as good the year before. He's always been a productive player offensively and he showed at least the capability to play neutral to slightly plus defense. 12 games this year? Rough. But again, are we making judgement calls on 12 games? Potential MVP, perennial all star, best SG in the leauge, top 5 player.
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Woolygimp

Woolygimp

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My comments weren't aimed at portraying to be some shooting prodigy, only that he's probably a top three power forward of all time. He's made $370 million from basketball, more than any other player. And he's a likable asshole.
 
Slaythe

Slaythe

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Woolygimp_sl said:
My comments weren't aimed at portraying to be some shooting prodigy, only that he's probably a top three power forward of all time. He's made $370 million from basketball, more than any other player. And he's a likable asshole.
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This is talking about Garnett right? Lots of tangents to the overall discussion here going in different directions, but for what it's worth I agree with your take here. KG and Duncan were pretty neck and neck for the "best PF ever" title until just recently. Duncan's longevity definitely gives him the edge.

Edit: Unless you really just consider Duncan a center, which there is definitely an argument for. KG also definitely played C mostly his one championship year.
 
popsicledeath

popsicledeath

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Slaythe_sl said:
Whatever your point is completely went over my head.
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You were critical of a post because it was little more than Shaq's opinion that you seemed to think was shit, when your own opinion on Harden has proved to also be shit. Or something like that, I think.


My only defense of any player when discussing clutch is that shooting percentages usually drop in the 4th quarter and in the playoffs, etc. Being willing to shoulder the responsibility for winning and losing shouldn't be lost in the discussion. Many players choke at even the prospect of being the one to take the shot. Whether you praise or criticize it, Pierce was at least willing to take the shot, which does say a lot more than a lot of guys.
 
popsicledeath

popsicledeath

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Slaythe_sl said:
one championship year.
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This is why Duncan gets the edge from me by quite a bit over KG. Both KG and Duncan were instrumental in building winning teams, systems and culture, etc. Duncan managed to do more actual winning though, and on teams with more than one style, over a long period of time. I have always hated Duncan, but there's not many players I respect more.
 
Gilgamel

Gilgamel

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Duncan and KG aren't even on the same tier. It's not even a discussion.

Pierce is not a top three SF of all time either. He's probably not even top 10.
 
popsicledeath

popsicledeath

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Cmon, best power forward in KG. Top 3 small forward of all time in Pierce. Point like Rondo with Westbrooks athleticism! Probably some dumb hyperbole somewhere I missed about Ray Allen. Sounds to me like the greatest team of all time to only win 1 championship!
 
Slaythe

Slaythe

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KG at his best wasreallygood. As good as Duncan ever was at his best. Certainly Duncan tops any legacy ranking. I'm not saying championships aren't a consideration in legacy either. Of course they are. And Duncan wins out there for sure, but he also didn't play in Minnesota for 12 years.

The Shaq confusion on my end isn't because I was making fun of Shaq. I was making fun of Wooly for posting some subjective bullshit after previously telling us "stats don't lie" in a previous argument. That's why I was confused.

To back up my argument, if we define "clutch" as the shots that occur during the 4th quarter or overtime, with less than five minutes remaining, and neither team ahead by more than five points, here are the big players from 2000-2012 (this would cover Pierce's prime, yes?):

Player FGA %
TMac 0714 0.373
Pierce 1163 0.387
Billups 0796 0.388
Kobe 1525 0.397
A.Miller 0678 0.397
Vince 1001 0.401
R.Allen 0916 0.405
Wade 0774 0.415
Melo 0655 0.421
Dirk 1036 0.428
KG 0848 0.434
Terry 0870 0.438
Nash 0806 0.459
LeBron 1003 0.460
Duncan 0818 0.460

A Statistical Analysis Of Clutch NBA Shooters Since 2000 - Liberty Ballers

I've linked this article probably 10 times over the course of the different NBA threads. This topic gets brought up quite a bit and I think this is a really good analysis. Wish I could find the exact same thing but going past 2012. Bottom line is yes, Pierce took a ton of "clutch" shots, he just didn't make them at a great rate in comparison to his peers.

But you know, Shaq said he was the truth so I'm probably wrong.
 
Woolygimp

Woolygimp

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It certainly seems the NBA has been stocked with a ton of new talent in the last few years. It's going to be an interesting league going forward.

And Duncan had Popovich. He's like the only coach in the league worth a fuck. That dude could probably take Toronto to the ECF. I mean look what fucking Brad Stevens is doing with his "no-name" squad in Boston. That shit's a miracle. None of those players would start on any other team. Bradley, Smart, Isaah would all be coming off a bench, and they they are shining.

I have high hopes for Stevens. If only Anthony Davis would migrate his ass to Boston.
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...and I'm a Louisiana native. (I also love Jared Sullinger, but he probably won't be in green come next year)
 
Alex

Alex

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Toronto could be the #1 seed in the East by the end of next week.

And I think that Steve Kerr guy is a pretty good coach as well.
 
Ambiturner

Ambiturner

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Slaythe_sl said:
KG at his best wasreallygood. As good as Duncan ever was at his best. Certainly Duncan tops any legacy ranking. I'm not saying championships aren't a consideration in legacy either. Of course they are. And Duncan wins out there for sure, but he also didn't play in Minnesota for 12 years.

The Shaq confusion on my end isn't because I was making fun of Shaq. I was making fun of Wooly for posting some subjective bullshit after previously telling us "stats don't lie" in a previous argument. That's why I was confused.

To back up my argument, if we define "clutch" as the shots that occur during the 4th quarter or overtime, with less than five minutes remaining, and neither team ahead by more than five points, here are the big players from 2000-2012 (this would cover Pierce's prime, yes?):

Player FGA %
TMac 0714 0.373
Pierce 1163 0.387
Billups 0796 0.388
Kobe 1525 0.397
A.Miller 0678 0.397
Vince 1001 0.401
R.Allen 0916 0.405
Wade 0774 0.415
Melo 0655 0.421
Dirk 1036 0.428
KG 0848 0.434
Terry 0870 0.438
Nash 0806 0.459
LeBron 1003 0.460
Duncan 0818 0.460

A Statistical Analysis Of Clutch NBA Shooters Since 2000 - Liberty Ballers

I've linked this article probably 10 times over the course of the different NBA threads. This topic gets brought up quite a bit and I think this is a really good analysis. Wish I could find the exact same thing but going past 2012. Bottom line is yes, Pierce took a ton of "clutch" shots, he just didn't make them at a great rate in comparison to his peers.

But you know, Shaq said he was the truth so I'm probably wrong.
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That's a somewhat arbitrary definition of "clutch".

I do agree it mostly doesn't exist, though
 
Slaythe

Slaythe

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Well the article goes into other definitions of it though, right? Looking at shots in close games with under a minute left and then with under 24 seconds. In all cases Pierce's shooting % is low in comparison.

The problem with any other definition is you're just going to decrease the sample size so much there really won't be any value to the analysis. What's your definition of clutch? Shots that win playoff games? I mean, end of game shots in close games seems to make sense to me.
 
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