New World

Zindan

Zindan

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Kinda leery of where he says that the cosmetics will (apparently) only be skins for armors you've gained as drops in-game. if the cosmetic isn't something you cannot get via drops / crafting, why would I want to pay money for it? Which makes me think the default look / color of the crafted / drops (with cosmetic options) will look like shit. Though I would rather not see people running around in pajama outfits or any other type cosmetic that didn't fit within the game world aesthetic they've made.
 
Cybsled

Cybsled

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I'm not as bothered by quirky cosmetics. WoW always confused the fuck out of me with how inconsistent they were. Like they never let you use holiday shit for transmog. The Valentines Day cosmetic which is a plague mask + a plague backpack was fucking awesome. Perfect for a forsaken or warlock, but they refused to let you transmog it. Such bullshit.

Although their armor has all looked like trash for years. Engine really is showing its age and the fact they just stretch a texture for every race vs. making sure it looks good on every race doesn't help.
 
Muligan

Muligan

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I think I would have been fine if exp pots would been introduced after their first major content update or expansion for a catch up method for new players or rerolling new characters. I just don't like the idea bring these out of the gate. To me that messes with the integrity of the first 30 day experience which is a big deal in MMO's in terms of player experience in my opinion. The idea that only people who "need" exp boots to keep up due to available will buy these is stupid. Its actually going to be quite the opposite in my opinion. The hard core folks will more than likely maximize the rush to the time and buy them. People who are casual are just going to play casual and can't make the post of the pots anyway. Just stupid in my opinion all around.
 
Cinge

Cinge

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Dunno. Will have to see. Odd to me. But iirc gw2 had them for multiple things(exp, crafting, the pvp exp ranking,rep etc) and didn't see to effect much. The hardcore used them like candy. Only game I can think of that I played that had boosts at launch.

WHich was still odd to me. Why let people pay to finish the game faster, silly way to lose players once they are done and bored.
 
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moonarchia

moonarchia

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Cinge said:
Dunno. Will have to see. Odd to me. But iirc gw2 had them for multiple things(exp, crafting, the pvp exp ranking,rep etc) and didn't see to effect much. The hardcore used them like candy. Only game I can think of that I played that had boosts at launch.

WHich was still odd to me. Why let people pay to finish the game faster, silly way to lose players once they are done and bored.
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gw2 doesn't have a subscription model. Faster they can get your money from you the better.
 
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Grim1

Grim1

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Muligan said:
I think I would have been fine if exp pots would been introduced after their first major content update or expansion for a catch up method for new players or rerolling new characters. I just don't like the idea bring these out of the gate. To me that messes with the integrity of the first 30 day experience which is a big deal in MMO's in terms of player experience in my opinion. The idea that only people who "need" exp boots to keep up due to available will buy these is stupid. Its actually going to be quite the opposite in my opinion. The hard core folks will more than likely maximize the rush to the time and buy them. People who are casual are just going to play casual and can't make the post of the pots anyway. Just stupid in my opinion all around.
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I believe they said that the xp pots would not be available at release.

We are aware that there are concerns around the storefront testing currently in Alpha. To be clear, at launch all of the items in the shop will be focused on cosmetics. There will be no boosts of any type for sale at launch. We will share more on our vision for MTX soon.
— New World (@playnewworld) May 13, 2021
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Almost every game sells boosts of some kind. WoW makes millions off of them. Don't understand the hand wringing.
 
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Daidraco

Daidraco

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I believe its more about looking at how terrible the genre has became and being disappointed that something that had hope in it is going down that road before its even released. From a commercial stand point, it makes a lot of sense to add a cash shop. You get a return on your 100+ mil plus product much faster. To the point that its almost worth investing in. But from any other point, its just sad. Everyone knows how it undermines anyone elses effort in the game, making those players that didnt pay feel apathetic to the reward. Everquest has them, but the game would probably be on life support if it didnt have them. WoW has them cause its activision (basically). Thats two major differences that explains one as keeping it alive, and the other as just greed. Im sure EQ has some very profitable months, but they are no where in the realm of the other behemoth.
 
Cinge

Cinge

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Cash shops in general are never going away. Every game is going to have them. That cat is out of the bag. These days its basically are you f2p/b2p, sub/no-sub and whats in the cash shop. Quite a lot of games have had boosts(not just mmos). Very rarely are they in at release(and based on what grim said, will be the same here). So in the end this game is b2p with no sub and a cash shop atm. Boost come sometime after launch. How greedy they are will depend if its just months after or years. So in the end a typical MMO.

Though wouldn't be shocked if they planned for boosts at release(still a dumb idea imo) and all this bad PR pushed that way.
 
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B_Mizzle

B_Mizzle

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At this point how much have they dumped into the game? I remember pre-ordering this a bunch of years ago, 2017 maybe?
 
Cinge

Cinge

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A decent amount most likely. It's changed so much over the years though, only in the last year or so it seems they finally set in on what they are going for.

If this is their way to try and push their engine, probably worth it and a drop in the bucket amazon wide wise.
 
Lithose

Lithose

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Grim1 said:
Almost every game sells boosts of some kind. WoW makes millions off of them. Don't understand the hand wringing.
Click to expand...

Yeah, and the whole industry is dying. People were hoping this game would be different. That might have been naive, but its what they were hoping. Its pretty logical they are pissed when Amazon effectively said 'no, lulz, going to paint by numbers this shit'.
 
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Araxen

Araxen

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The two biggest MMO's on the market have subscription models, but everyone else keeps trying the F2P bullshit. The one thing to "steal" is that. Instead they keep going for rape the whale models.
 
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rhinohelix

rhinohelix

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Lithose said:
Yeah, and the whole industry is dying. People were hoping this game would be different. That might have been naive, but its what they were hoping. Its pretty logical they are pissed when Amazon effectively said 'no, lulz, going to paint by numbers this shit'.
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It's not dying because of cash shops, though; its dying because of lack of innovation and a 10 ton whale sitting on the industry, and no one willing to move into the space, including investors, for fear of not getting WoW like returns or crowds. Either they import Asian grind-fests or its Nostalgia progression stuff or crowdfunded forever projects like Chris Roberts' Spaceships Forever or Pantheon. The entire game space at one time moved onto MOBAs and FPS GAAS because MMOs were so stifled by WoW and MMO dev time/competition/returns. Only now does it look like a few companies are thinking about coming back as WoW appears to releasing its death-grip on the market. Imagine FPSes dying in the same way because Fortnite owned that space so completely.

Amazon seems to be one of the few willing to make an entry in this space, although hopefully Riot comes in as well. Who cares what kind of alligator tears a competitor cries? If I had known it was the AOC guy raising a stink, I would have ignored it completely. It still sounds like an overreaction but even a warning shot might serve a purpose, I guess. This crybaby bullshit about ruining the game before it enters beta is ridiculous, though. Even Amazon has to make money, or no more MMOs will ever get made. These things aren't going to selll Prime memberships.

Edit: Also, players are changing. No one is willing to sit at a camp in Lower Guk for 12 hours waiting for an item to drop when you can get your dopamine hit in far fewer minutes doing other things. Other games including WoW, have prospered designing to that understanding.
 
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Lithose

Lithose

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rhinohelix said:
It's not dying because of cash shops, though; its dying because of lack of innovation and a 10 ton whale sitting on the industry, and no one willing to move into the space, including investors, for fear of not getting WoW like returns or crowds. Either they import Asian grindfests or its Nostalgia progression stuff or crowdfunded forever projects like Chris Roberts' Spaceships Forever or Pantheon. The entire game space at one time moved onto MOBAs and FPS GAAS because MMOs were so stifled by WoW and MMO dev time/competition/returns. Only now does it look like a few companies are thinking about coming back as WoW appears to releasing its deathgrip on the market. Imagine FPSes dying in the same way because Fortnite owned that space so completely.

Amazon seems to be one of the few willing to make an entry in this space, although hopefully Riot comes in as well. Who cares what kind of alligator tears a competitor cries? If I had known it was the AOC guy raising a stink, I would have ignored it completely. It still sounds like an overreaction but even a warning shot might serve a purpose, I guess. This crybaby bullshit about ruining the game before it enters beta is ridiculous, though. Even Amazon has to make money, or no more MMOs will ever get made. These things aren't going to selll Prime memberships.
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I couldn't disagree more. I think cash-shops are a prime example of why the industry is dying. And if the only way forward is to literally do the same shit over--hopefully the industry does die. I can't think of a genre that deserves it more.

Also, its pretty disingenuous to say this is all stemming from a competitor. lol...that sounds like shit Amazon is wishing were the case. This is coming from everywhere--its just being exploited by a competitor (I hardly follow MMO news anymore and half my youtube recommends are just relentlessly shitting on this decision--all people who were excited by this game a couple weeks ago). And again, its not because this will 'ruin the game'--its the fact that this signals exactly the kind of game this will be. And its just as you said; Amazon wants to replace WoW, they don't want to be something new.

And the market is going to collectively 'meh' at that.
 
Grim1

Grim1

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Lithose said:
Yeah, and the whole industry is dying. People were hoping this game would be different. That might have been naive, but its what they were hoping. Its pretty logical they are pissed when Amazon effectively said 'no, lulz, going to paint by numbers this shit'.
Click to expand...

Cash shops are not the reason AAA mmos are a rarity these days.

It has more to do with the cost / time of developing mmos in this new age of mobile games. It's hard to convince the bean counters at gaming companies to spend tens of millions on a mmo (that will probably fail) when a mobile game can make just as much in profit for a hundredth the cost. And young gamers have a lot more options for multiplayer than when EQ / WoW came out. I would argue that the industry has evolved to include games like Destiny 2, etc. Traditional Mmo's still have their place but they are not where the focus is anymore.
 
Lithose

Lithose

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Grim1 said:
Cash shops are not the reason AAA mmos are a rarity these days.

It has more to do with the cost / time of developing mmos in this new age of mobile games. It's hard to convince the bean counters at gaming companies to spend tens of millions on a mmo (that will probably fail) when a mobile game can make just as much in profit for a hundredth the cost. And young gamers have a lot more options for multiplayer than when EQ / WoW came out. I would argue that the industry has evolved. Mmo's still have their place but they are not where the focus is anymore.
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Yeah, I said the same thing earlier, just a page ago. The MMO, as its currently designed in the "WoW" style is literally just a worse version of any number of small-server games, where the mini-games you can join from your 3d city lobby are all categorically worse than stand-alone games. (In literally every measurable way)

And what a cash shop represents is the continued thinking of "how do we make MMOs a game and use the same monetization techniques in other games".

As long as developers continue to try to make their MMOs into the best game possible, especially the best 'game' that can be monetized--the industry will die. As it should. Because MMOs will never be as good of games as smaller scale games. Ever.
 
Mist

Mist

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Valheim has more in common with what an MMO experience was supposed to be about than most modern MMOs.
 
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rhinohelix

rhinohelix

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Lithose said:
I couldn't disagree more. I think cash-shops are a prime example of why the industry is dying. And if the only way forward is to literally do the same shit over--hopefully the industry does die. I can't think of a genre that deserves it more.

Also, its pretty disingenuous to say this is all stemming from a competitor. lol...that sounds like shit Amazon is wishing were the case. This is coming from everywhere--its just being exploited by a competitor (I hardly follow MMO news anymore and half my youtube recommends are just relentlessly shitting on this decision--all people who were excited by this game a couple weeks ago). And again, its not because this will 'ruin the game'--its the fact that this signals exactly the kind of game this will be. And its just as you said; Amazon wants to replace WoW, they don't want to be something new.

And the market is going to collectively 'meh' at that.
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Just for the record, I said "*I* would have disregarded it, because this seems like a huge overreaction to me, and I don't get the huge tidal wave reaction to the idea of boosts and a cash shop. At least its understandable from a competitor.

Lithose said:
Yeah, I said the same thing earlier, just a page ago. The MMO, as its currently designed in the "WoW" style is literally just a worse version of any number of small-server games, where the mini-games you can join from your 3d city lobby are all categorically worse than stand-alone games. (In literally every measurable way)

And what a cash shop represents is the continued thinking of "how do we make MMOs a game and use the same monetization techniques in other games".

As long as developers continue to try to make their MMOs into the best game possible, especially the best 'game' that can be monetized--the industry will die. As it should. Because MMOs will never be as good of games as smaller scale games. Ever.
Click to expand...

We will just have to disagree here. Small servers and limited pop games have their place, to be sure but MMOs and larger pop games are going to have to be funded somehow. It's not killing the industry. Stagnation is killing the industry. The same company, the same game, the same people, the same story, same same same; it's Ogre on the barrel, propelled by its own momentum and essentially stuck in its own prison. Blizzard needs a new Blizzard, just like Intel, Microsoft, etc. needs competition to keep them sharp, and in this case, since no one was able to compete in the MMO space, its come via other Genres. If people are mad because Amazon is using the same system to monitize their game that others have used, would they have been even angrier if they had gone sub? Riots in the streets if they had both? People would only been happy if it was BPM was no GAAS component at all? Was it going to run on Hopium and Crowdfunding? Chris Roberts uber alles? That is how the industry dies; remove any chance of a return, and there won't be any games at all.

TLDR. A Cash shop isn't going to kill a MMO; a shitty unfun game is. The game has to make money somehow. They aren't going to sell ads or farm clicks or install an agent to mine bitcoin.
 
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