New World

Mahes

Mahes

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Cybsled said:
It isn’t hate, it’s the fact some of the core mechanics they have released thus far have a proven track record of driving players away - the biggest standouts are forced pvp + dropping loot on death, and losing a large amount of time and resources if your town gets destroyed in a war in addition to mechanics that let big guilds not let a town get too developed.

Forced pvp and dropping materials I’m sure Sorcerer is thinking “we get to farm RMT bots”, but clearly he never played Lineage2 because the RMT people will be the ones farming YOU using their fucking hive mind swarms.

And Shadowbane (and lesser degree New World) has shown that if you destroy and continue to destroy or take over cities that players work to build up, eventually they just quit the game because they feel like they can’t do anything to change that and dislike the uncertainty associated with that, especially if they feel the loss was due to shitty balance or bugs.
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That is a fair assessment.

Those are also my largest concerns as PvP in gaming has always been tricky. The game is still too far out to assume that changes will not be made if enough say something. At one time the game design was completely different from what it is now. Designs change as concepts that sound good end up not being practically good. There is so much left to work with for this game that I think it best to reserve judgment at least until Alpha 2. I would think by then that a lot of the system will be in place but with the understanding that things can still change. They made changes before when listening to players. That is why I am not counting them out yet.

To give you an idea of one design change that the director completely supported. He was going to have daily log in rewards implemented. There was such an outcry against it that he changed his mind. Now that is small compared to PvP ruleset ideas but Intrepid does listen to the players when it gets focused enough.
 
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Malakriss

Malakriss

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The devs decided to have a system that taxed literally everything. Okay... but then they piled on more penalties, negatives, and pain in the ass mechanics on top of it. Then they did the same thing to other parts of gameplay. Not fun, not encouraging, so fuck off we're not playing that bullshit. Then they had a laughable train of dupes and exploits to follow it and everyone already knew by then their CS was shit and was never going to clean it all up.

Game was already dead by Thanksgiving.
 
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Cybsled

Cybsled

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I am not saying it can’t change, but it’s going to come down to who he really wants to target. If he goes with “play to crush”, then success wise the game is going to flop long term like Shadowbane or New World: Strong showing for a month, but then a massive drop off when people realize they aren’t king shit of PvP land and get frustrated with other aspects that make it too punishing.

If he goes with a less punishing model, then they really need to make sure there is enough content so you don’t fall into the New World trap either
 
Xerge

Xerge

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Jumped into the PTR to fuck around with the weapon swap changes. Feels a lot better now, game feels really good honestly. Add multigroup functionality and some more end game zones/dungeons, then we'll talk. In-game leaderboard would also be great for said end game activities. OPR was also reworked - haven't tried it
 
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Daidraco

Daidraco

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Xerge said:
Jumped into the PTR to fuck around with the weapon swap changes. Feels a lot better now, game feels really good honestly. Add multigroup functionality and some more end game zones/dungeons, then we'll talk. In-game leaderboard would also be great for said end game activities. OPR was also reworked - haven't tried it
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I "thought" I would want to reinstall the game when they released new content (the stuff you mentioned) - but after being gone this long, I have like zero desire to log in. G/f hasnt logged into the game in about a week. Games done for the foreseeable future, Jim.
 
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jayrebb

jayrebb

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Age of Conan can still pull 1,000 concurrent at times and that was released a decade ago.

New World may not be so fortunate tbh.... AOC has a pretty good amount of traditional MMO game to play (people still speak highly of it's combat, raid options, and gameplay)-- can New World say the same?
 
Rezz

Rezz

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I forget who said it years ago, but pvp games rely on sheep to make it fun for pvp players. When you drive away the sheep, the pvpers leave shortly after because like 90%+ of pvp players are bottom feeders; the top end competition is not for them. NW made it shitty for sheep, so the wolves have moved on in response.
 
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Cybsled

Cybsled

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Rezz said:
I forget who said it years ago, but pvp games rely on sheep to make it fun for pvp players. When you drive away the sheep, the pvpers leave shortly after because like 90%+ of pvp players are bottom feeders; the top end competition is not for them. NW made it shitty for sheep, so the wolves have moved on in response.
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This is why PVP centric MMOs inevitably fail and especially why forced PVP fails in the long run. Everyone thinks they are king shit until they aren't, then most just quit. There is some fantasy the hardcore PVPers have that the crushed will come back and try again, and that is true for a short time, but eventually they do quit. Especially if they feel it was unfair because of balance issues, or exploits, or whatever. Like for example on my server, sides we went up against in war were heavily exploiting the movespeed and hatchet bugs in wars, and when coupled with shitty roster bugs, it just demoralized the faction and caused a death spiral of losses, which in turn made more people leave.

NW had tried to move away from that late in development, but part of the problem is they kept a lot of the punishing PVP mechanics in (like increased fast travel costs or taxes for the factions not in control), and coupled that with limited PVE options at end game that had a lot of gatekeeping involved (like the orb system and non-existent party finder mechanics beyond yelling in general chat).
 
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xmod2

xmod2

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It had to do with PvP because it was a PvP game for its entire life and then in the last hour decided to throw on a PvE wig and make up and pretend it wasn't.
 
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Sylas

Sylas

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xmod2 said:
It had to do with PvP because it was a PvP game for its entire life and then in the last hour decided to throw on a PvE wig and make up and pretend it wasn't.
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No this game failed because whoever was in charge kept changing what kind of game it was going to be, from an private server survival game to persistent online survival to battle royale and then finally to an MMO. Given how completely incompetent the devs were at launch I think its safe to say that some bean counter at amazon was looking at player metrics for various genres and kept changing his mind on what he wanted, and amazon in grand fashion just fired everyone and replaced them with worse and worse diversity hire teams to implement that weeks vision over and over again until we ended up with a fucking mess of spaghetti code and a completely inept dev team who had no idea how anything worked.

nothing to do with PVP. PVP wasn't even available for the majority of players for that 1 month that most people tried the game and then quit.

Everyone said the game needed 6 months to a year of dev time to fix it, but the money guy knew that if they gave this shit another year the bean counter making all the decisions would of turned this in to a my little pony walking simulator and the game would of still had just as many problems. Money guy cut their losses and released this garbage at discount bin price just to try and recoop costs, and depending on how many people bought this game but somehow never played it, its questionable if they even broke even on this shit.
 
Cybsled

Cybsled

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Pvp had an indirect impact, though. Travel costs and costs in general were tied to who owned the lands/forts, which was determined by pvp. As a result, it made the game experience frustrating to the Playerbase not engaged in that, which no doubt led to quitting

The most recent PTR changes to taxes and fast travel costs seems to uphold that theory, since those would be the greatest burden to more casual players
 
mkopec

mkopec

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Yeah if you were the wrong faction on the wrong server you were pretty much fucked with travel. Especially when doing the 580 weapon quests which were all the rage in the beginning days of hitting cap. Never understood why they had that shitty travel system tied to faction to begin with. ITs basically the rich get richer while the poors stay poor.

Not only that, on the bigger servers the top crafting cities centrally located were making fucking TONS of cash for the controlling guild, which in turn made them level their trades way quicker just by buying the shit on AH and feeding their crafters which in turn churned out 590- 600 I level shit for their guild, while selling the crap leftover shit rolls. Which even made the divide even larger between the haves and have nots.

ITs was a poorly thought out system from ground up. Instead of having land controlling guilds have advantages in defending, it should have been more of an advantage to the attacking teams instead so the properties churned over more often and spread the wealth and thus equalized the power between the haves and have nots.

And thats not even mentioning the exploits the guilds used to keep territory like the warhorn exploit among other shit which wasn't fixed for WEEKS if not ever, lol.
 
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