Pan'Theon: Rise' of th'e Fal'Len - #1 Thread in MMO

Dumar_sl said:

That's stupid. Everything on the entire planet Earth 'takes time'. You want to get a better free throw? Well, you stand at the rim for hours at the FT line throwing balls in a bucket.

You want to get better at mathematics? Well, you sit your arse at a desk and do math problems everyday. The idea that a game can't 'take time' is the complete antithesis of what makes a game good. You should want to spend lots of time in a game.

Click to expand...

Sitting in a camp spot does not make me better at the game. Loggin on for 8 hours when someone else only has 4 does not make me better at the game. The entire point is those with more time are the ones the prospered in EQ. I can shoot fucking free throws till I'm blue in the face and I will not be as good as a skilled NBA player.

kudos_sl said:

Raid mob spawn racing.

My server rarely was ever spawn camped. Once it popped people started mobilizing. Was the greatest thing ever watching a competing guild running next to you and setting up on the other side of Kael arena. I swear my heart would race.

Click to expand...

That was fun but other games have had that. Just not of the quality of loot that EQ had.

Abefroman_sl said:

Sitting in a camp spot does not make me better at the game. Loggin on for 8 hours when someone else only has 4 does not make me better at the game. The entire point is those with more time are the ones the prospered in EQ. I can shoot fucking free throws till I'm blue in the face and I will not be as good as a skilled NBA player.

Click to expand...

You spend time at things you enjoy, things you want to improve. It's no fucking different here. It doesn't matter if you're camping a spawn, hitting a baseball, painting, doing cartwheels, sexing porn stars, programming, whatever. It doesn't matter the activity - everything takes time.

Immersiveness and playing in 1hr bursts 2x a week do not mix either: they're the opposite of each other. Immsersiveness implies in the definition a good amount of time to actually FEEL immersed.

Want you're describing are shitty parlor games, and you have them. Everywhere. We're asking for a real mmog again, which we'll likely never get now.

Vanilla WoW was nearly perfect for me except for a few things:

-Itemization could have been better. "Fistpunch Gorget of the Tranny" was lazy and boring. There was too much loot that didn't matter, and it dropped far too commonly. All gear should be coveted, not sold to vendors.
-There should have been a few non-instanced dungeons that housed desirable, but not essential, items. Rare mounts, cosmetics, rare crafting mats, harvesting nodes, etc. These areas should have been the most challenging in the game.
-There should have been more contested rare-spawns/raid targets, ideally in PVP enabled zones. They addressed this with Azuregos/Kazzak/Green Dragons pretty quickly though. Still... I wish WoW had a few really rare solo camps like Quillmane, Pyzjyn etc.

Aside from that... the game was straight up superior to EQ in every conceivable way.

Quaid_sl said:

Aside from that... the game was straight up superior to EQ in every conceivable way.

Click to expand...

I wouldn't say totally superior. EverQuest's classes still trumped Vanilla WoW's by a shit ton of bricks. But generally yes, had they not wholly sold their souls at the altar of earnings calls and continued with actual dungeons, it would've been a truly awesome game today.

Abefroman_sl said:

Give some examples.

Click to expand...

Non linear dungeons.

double post.

Quaid_sl said:

Vanilla WoW was nearly perfect for me except for a few things:

-Itemization could have been better. "Fistpunch Gorget of the Tranny" was lazy and boring. There was too much loot that didn't matter, and it dropped far too commonly. All gear should be coveted, not sold to vendors.
-There should have been a few non-instanced dungeons that housed desirable, but not essential, items. Rare mounts, cosmetics, rare crafting mats, harvesting nodes, etc. These areas should have been the most challenging in the game.
-There should have been more contested rare-spawns/raid targets, ideally in PVP enabled zones. They addressed this with Azuregos/Kazzak/Green Dragons pretty quickly though. Still... I wish WoW had a few really rare solo camps like Quillmane, Pyzjyn etc.

Aside from that... the game was straight up superior to EQ in every conceivable way.

Click to expand...

I very much enjoyed WoW though TBC.. Have you checked out Emerald Dream ( not sure if still running ). I was on there a bit.

if you practice the violin for 12 hours a day and somebody else practices only 2 hours a day. which one is more likely to be playing carnegie hall?

Maester Chuk_sl said:

if you practice the violin for 12 hours a day and somebody else practices only 2 hours a day. which one is more likely to be playing carnegie hall?

Click to expand...

Honestly it true with anything you do... time spent contributes to improvement at anything.. Hell I play golf, talk about a prime example.

Dumar_sl said:

You spend time at things you enjoy, things you want to improve. It's no fucking different here. It doesn't matter if you're camping a spawn, hitting a baseball, painting, doing cartwheels, sexing porn stars, programming, whatever. It doesn't matter the activity - everything takes time.

Immersiveness and playing in 1hr bursts 2x a week do not mix either: they're the opposite of each other. Immsersiveness implies in the definition a good amount of time to actually FEEL immersed.

Want you're describing are shitty parlor games, and you have them. Everywhere. We're asking for a real mmog again, which we'll likely never get now.

Click to expand...

You're being short sited. There are a lot of things that didn't require tons of time in EQ that can be brought to the present and other things that could be fixed. Buffs like SOW, non-generic loot without item budget bullshit, clickies cause everyone fucking loves clickies, classic dungeon design that is non-instanced with automatic pvp within the dungeon to keep people from monopolizing all the camps, loot that lasts more then 3 months with the next tier refresh, no more BO(whatever), treating every mob like an elite to encourage grouping, no hard limits on raids to eliminate having to leave friends behind just because they aren't the best players. These are just some of the things off the top of my head. Also I always considered the EQ trinity to be Tank, Heals, Control. I would get rid of just DPS classes and make everyone more active that way.

Maester Chuk_sl said:

if you practice the violin for 12 hours a day and somebody else practices only 2 hours a day. which one is more likely to be playing carnegie hall?

Click to expand...

Playing EQ does not equate to playing a fucking violin. You didn't get that shiny loot because you were more skilled, you got it because you had more time to play. If that's the game you want then that's fine. Don't pretend it was skill.

Dumar_sl said:

EverQuest's classes still trumped Vanilla WoW's by a shit ton of bricks.

Click to expand...

Listen man... I love EQ as much as the next guy. I'm firmly in the camp that believes a lot was lost in the transition from EQ to WoW in terms of dynamic social experience. But I just don't know how you can say this with a straight face...

Warriors in EQ had like 3 fucking skills. Rangers were broken until the 3rd damn expansion. Paladins, Mages and Wizards were boring as fuck and poorly implemented. Do you remember clerics? Because fuck you if you do and you think that was fun. Druids had a couple neat tricks... Too bad they were raped by Shaman in almost every regard... Who paid the price of being a ridiculous buff/debuff bot. Rogue, monk and Bard had their moments, ya... Enchanter and Necromancer hold up as two of my favourite classes of all time in any game.

ALL of WoW's classes were both fun and viable. They all had interesting mechanics and played differently. Did you ever do the Rhokdelar quest on a hunter? That shit was awesome, and playing the class during those encounters felt just as great as soloing the frenzied ghoul on my Necro, or quadding dwarves on my druid. The benediction quest on my priest was more fun in 15 minutes than I had in 1000 hours on my cleric. My warrior man... Did you ever use charge in PVP? Have you ever rektscrubz with an Arcanite Reaper? Pure joy. A lot more than tanking Lord Doljinnnnamar in a fucking corner.

shabushabu_sl said:

I very much enjoyed WoW though TBC.. Have you checked out Emerald Dream ( not sure if still running ). I was on there a bit.

Click to expand...

No, what is it?

Abefroman_sl said:

Playing EQ does not equate to playing a fucking violin. You didn't get that shiny loot because you were more skilled, you got it because you had more time to play. If that's the game you want then that's fine. Don't pretend it was skill.

Click to expand...

the point is, if you do anything more, even jacking off, you will become better at it than someone else who only jacks off a fraction of the time that you do. you are not entitled to shit. if you want something, go and get it.

Abefroman_sl said:

You're being short sited. There are a lot of things that didn't require tons of time in EQ that can be brought to the present and other things that could be fixed. Buffs like SOW, non-generic loot without item budget bullshit, clickies cause everyone fucking loves clickies, classic dungeon design that is non-instanced with automatic pvp within the dungeon to keep people from monopolizing all the camps, loot that lasts more then 3 months with the next tier refresh, no more BO(whatever), treating every mob like an elite to encourage grouping, no hard limits on raids to eliminate having to leave friends behind just because they aren't the best players. These are just some of the things off the top of my head.Also I always considered the EQ trinity to be Tank, Heals, Control. I would get rid of just DPS classes and make everyone more active that way.

Click to expand...

bad ass idea sir.

gogojira_sl said:

The p99 of WoW.

Click to expand...

Just vanilla?

Maester Chuk_sl said:

the point is, if you do anything more, even jacking off, you will become better at it than someone else who only jacks off a fraction of the time that you do. you are not entitled to shit. if you want something, go and get it.

Click to expand...

Indeed. What I always liked about a game world like this is effort = success, where as in the real world effort is a small part of success at least in the corporate world where I live.