Pan'Theon: Rise' of th'e Fal'Len - #1 Thread in MMO

Rogosh

Rogosh

Lord Nagafen Raider
894
230
Welcome Aradune!

I wish you all the best with your new mmo, all that I ask is that you make it a world that we want to believe in. Not even Vanguard did for me what Everquest did in that regards. Quests had meaning and the game felt alive with day night cycles.

Creatures were notable and just not rare_101. Bring back rare items that have the one click use that you can use throughout your gaming experience. From what it sounds you are leaning towards all these things, which has many of us excited. Bring back Deity worship and no hard coded faction split.

One question, mounted combat yes or no?


Thanks and good luck!
 
Quaid

Quaid

Trump's Staff
11,556
7,863
It's my opinion that if Brad & co. manage to design a world to be lived in, rather than a game to be played, they will see a good deal of interest in their product. Maybe not during the kickstarter or at launch, but it could enjoy a long and healthy life similar to that of EVE.

Don't sell out, man. The MMO junkheap is full of those who have already.

Also:

rrr_img_55656.jpg
 
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Nobody_sl

shitlord
80
0
Quaid_sl said:
It's my opinion that if Brad & co. manage to design a world to be lived in, rather than a game to be played, they will see a good deal of interest in their product. Maybe not during the kickstarter or at launch, but it could enjoy a long and healthy life similar to that of EVE.

Don't sell out, man. The MMO junkheap is full of those who have already.
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Extremely well said. That "lived in" feeling is one of those hard-to-pinpoint factors why EQ was such a memorable experience for many of us. It's the difference between a game made by a bunch of "fun scientists" who weigh and consider bell curves of content engagement versus player retention, and a game made by a bunch of nerds who think something should be in the world because it's really cool.
 
Quaid

Quaid

Trump's Staff
11,556
7,863
Quineloe_sl said:
actual mounted combat would be a ground breaking novelty, I don't think any game of any genre has ever done that before.
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...there are tons of mounted combat games, including The Lord of the Rings MMORPG, and the recently released ArcheAge.
 
Mr Creed

Mr Creed

Too old for this shit
2,380
276
tad10_sl said:
Noooo. No XP for quests, and quests should be uncommon (not rare, just uncommon). The quest grind to cap is a horrible creeping virus that swallows all joy out of an MMO. Also, quest drops from mobs without needing to be on the quest (EQ style).
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Rhinohelix_sl said:
I am great with the latter point but not the former across the board. Lots of quests in EQ gave XP (tumpy tonics ho!). I think what I would agree with would be an end to quest hubs, a QuestMart location where all quests in a region can be gathered and turned in with a single drive-by.

If you don't have people grinding quests, then you have people grinding mobs, which inevitably means setting up camp spots which means lots of assembly-line pulling and chewing through long levels a pixel at a time sitting in one spot. While that can be a choice, it needs to be a choice among many and not forced; I don't know if using that to encourage community and PvE competition is the best way to go about it.
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tad10_sl said:
I can live with quests giving XP as long as hubs are avoided.
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Please consider this:

1quest
noun \'kwest\

: a journey made in search of something
: a long and difficult effort to find or do something
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Going over the next hill and taking the belt off a dead orc - not a quest
Handing a bone chip to a npc - not a quest
Killing 10 wolves - not a quest
Picking up 10 discarded supply crates - not a quest
Delivering a letter to the guy in the very next building - not a quest
If you can do something in 15 minutes, it's probably not a quest

EQ1 didnt really have that many quests, and WoW had a million too many and diluted the whole concept.

On the other hand, EQ1 epics were quests.
The whole chain to obtain the Onyxia key was *1* quest ( game mechanics of WoW made it a dozen because scratching your ass is a quest in that game)

I think if you take the middle ground with quests being uncommon but taking effort and through that also time(requiring faction, fighting, crafting and whatever else) you can also give them decent rewards including xp, gold, items and other stuff. They shouldnt be repeatable unless it really makes sense.

Doing or not doing a quest should be a conscious choice of the player, possibly even with ups and downs and strings attached. We dont know the lore of the game yet so its difficult to give an example but if there arent at least possible downsides to a players action everything becomes a non-choice again, you do it because why not.
 
shabushabu

shabushabu

Molten Core Raider
1,408
185
Pyros_sl said:
Don't care much how "hardcore" it is or how punishing it is and what type of leveling it uses. Only thing I care about really is, this better have bloodmages/disciples. And real bards. And a real CC focused class. Basically, it better have Vanguard class design. Just with that I'd be willing to put a bit of money into it, because regardless of how awful other aspects of the game are/were, these classes were just fucking fun to play.

That said I really liked the Vanguard leveling. It had quests that you could solo if you wanted for some xp, but leveling solo was pretty fucking slow and involved a lot of grinding between quests area level jumps. Then it had group leveling which was efficient and fun, with super large dungeons exploration and all the EQ-like features that people keep mentionning in the rose tinted glasses threads. It did both and that was great imo. Some quests are fine, they can just be actual questlines and not collecting bear asses, and give decent(but not great) rewards for your trouble. They act as a medium for lore, you get told stories and legends of the world while doing the quests, explore areas you wouldn't otherwise doing static grouping. At the same time, if you want to really level up, you'll just group and explore/camp dungeons. This was what made Vanguard accessible to me, the fact you weren't forced into grouping ALL the time(besides playing a soloing class like a necro), but it was still the most fun and efficient way of leveling. Basically, you had the choice. Modern mmos are all about questing and grouping is generally worse, but I don't think I want a game where you have to group at all times to do everything, having some content you can solo whenever you log in and your static group isn't on or you only have 15-20mins to play is fine too.

So yeah, I'd rather see vanguard 2 than everquest 3. That is, without the zone hitching, lack of content(emppty dungeons, no loot tables on many mobs etc), CTDs, unoptimized engine and all that shit that ruined Vanguard, obviously.
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Bloodmages please
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Louis

Louis

Trakanon Raider
2,836
1,105
I figured EQ Next was my last chance at an mmorpg I'd actually play, but I'm definitely looking forward to this much more. Consider me sold on ks funding.
 
Mr Creed

Mr Creed

Too old for this shit
2,380
276
Rogosh_sl said:
Welcome Aradune!

I wish you all the best with your new mmo, all that I ask is that you make it a world that we want to believe in
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Quaid_sl said:
It's my opinion that if Brad & co. manage to design a world to be lived in, rather than a game to be played, they will see a good deal of interest in their product
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This is one of the key questions this kickstarter has to answer to extinguish or flare my interest. There are enough MMO "games" around, is this going to be a fantasy world or just an overworld that's there to justify dungeon grouping for +gooder while watching tv?
 
rhinohelix

rhinohelix

Dental Dammer
<Gold Donor>
2,907
4,695
Mr Creed_sl said:
This is one of the key questions this kickstarter has to answer to extinguish or flare my interest. There are enough MMO "games" around, is this going to be a fantasy world or just an overworld that's there to justify dungeon grouping for +gooder while watching tv?
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This is really at the heart of what a lot of folks above have indicated: Don't split the playerbase into hard-coded factions and have multiple interlocking factions with complex relationships. I don't think any game has equaled Everquest's nuanced faction relationships. Obviously dungeons are sources of risk/reward opportunities but making the overworld matter in terms of travel and a sense of *space* are key ingredients to immersion. A more subtle approach to GW2 success/fail state cascade events would be sublime. I mean, Everquest was surely a theme park but the rides were so much less blatant than in many games since; it really made a critical difference.

I think many of the comments about loot above are also spot-on; what you had named-drop-wise was effectively part of your character's "build". It made acquiring those items the drivers of what you would do in an evening, more so than any overt quest and their graphical representation on models also allowed for their prestige to drive player activity and recognition.
 
G

Gecko_sl

shitlord
1,482
0
Burnesto_sl said:
Please ignore most of the suggestions people make on this website.
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I so agree with this. This board combines all the extremes of FOH, and not always in the best manner for discussions.

Also Brad, I'm curious if you still play MMOs and RPGs in general? It seems like MMOs have moved away from being designed by passionate MUD, DIKU, and AD&D players. I'm curious about your opinion about recently released MMOs, and even more curious if you've played any of them.
 
Convo

Convo

Ahn'Qiraj Raider
8,761
613
Haha nice. Today would be a good day to launch the ks. East coast under snow... Nothing to do but sit home and spend money...
 
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Dahkoht_sl

shitlord
1,658
0
As Creed/Quaid/Tad/Convo and others have noted , and originally one of my two major factors to donate/support the KS and game , (other being stick to the niche audience ),

Focus on the idea of the world to login to and enjoy in various ways, the gameplay comes almost by accident in a well made world that matters.

There are enough "games" , I want a virtual world where I remember the damn Dark Elven guard at the crossroads who raped me as an early paladin in the west commons , or Dorn the undercon pummeling me when he shouldn't and so on.
 
C

Column_sl

shitlord
9,833
7
Please do some traditional fucking classes again, and hire that Black guy that did all the concept art for the orignal EQ.

There's too many games trying to make there own shit up, and it's always shit.
 
Convo

Convo

Ahn'Qiraj Raider
8,761
613
Column_sl said:
Please do some traditional fucking classes again, and hire that Black guy that did all the concept art for the orignal EQ.

There's too many games trying to make there own shit up, and it's always shit.
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just getting ready to bring this back up. I'm personally not looking for a whole bunch of "new" ideas. if you have them and they are awesome that's just a bonus.. I'd rather just take what worked in games like EQ and VG and build on it a bit.

For instance, I love that EQ didn't have leashed mobs. I also thought it was awesome classes had the ability to FD split, charm, mez, AE, kite etc.. different content.. Regardless if it was deemed to trivialize some content. That mix and diversity kept things fresh and fun. A lot of it was replaced with boring encounters and mechanics=not fun.
 
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Dahkoht_sl

shitlord
1,658
0
Column_sl said:
Please do some traditional fucking classes again, and hire that Black guy that did all the concept art for the orignal EQ.

There's too many games trying to make there own shit up, and it's always shit.
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This ^^^^^^^^^

I completely forgot , Brad , healers are ok , it's ok for someone who wants to be a pure healer , Brad let healers be healers , I want to play a healer and don't find it boring , I like being a pure healer for one of my characters , shockingly I like to heal , it's ok to heal Brad.

(let there be pure tanks too)
 
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