Pan'Theon: Rise' of th'e Fal'Len - #1 Thread in MMO

Maester Chuk_sl said:

also the amounts are small enough where you wont need a lawyer, its small claims court stuff where there are are no lawyers involved.

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They need to go see Judge Judy.

Black Watchman ARG Falls Short of Goal | MMO Fallout

These guys failed on their ks, but they had the wise option to openly tell their pledgers they'd get a refund, and the idea was better than pantheon:bus stop.

symbelmyne_sl said:

Majority of the team worked 6-7 months? you have got to be kidding. you've seen the demo right? at what point were any of them working versus "volunteering." i think one operating cost your missing is legal advice. you can guarantee Brad got legal advice, including right before the kickstarter. what do you suppose his legal retainer fee was?

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Other than 3 of them, all the others had full time jobs and were only working on the project in their off time. I know Vhalen and Ben were two of the full timers and I think Vu was part time. Everyone else other than Brad had other jobs through out the project, so much like the new volunteer team. Which is why when you look at lore vs content the lore was so far advanced and was more consistent with updates.

Beck_sl said:

Other than 3 of them, all the others had full time jobs and were only working on the project in their off time. I know Vhalen and Ben were two of the full timers and I think Vu was part time. Everyone else other than Brad had other jobs through out the project, so much like the new volunteer team. Which is why when you look at lore vs content the lore was so far advanced and was more consistent with updates.

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so the couple of them worked full time... (how many months?) trying really hard not to knock Lore as a real position @ a Gaming Company. the others were moonlighting. honestly i have no complaints with what the team got. Was it stupid for Brad to shell out the majority of the money to himself and a couple of other folks (betcha Salim was one) ...yes he guessed wrong that people would not get upset, he assumed the team would be loyal and put out some content. so the majority of them got 2.5k for doing next to nothing while holding onto 9-5 jobs.

we're all hyping the money aspect, but lets consider any non competitive clauses etc that may have been written into their contracts. with the hopes dimming of adequate funding, having such a clause in ones contract would most certainly be a giant millstone. one is left with the option of discarding that millstone, or remaining under contract without future projections of revenue. I'll bet that a good majority of the guys you want to spill the beans, would like to keep that bridge open should (though apparently very bleak) angel funding or a revived kickstarter appear. we should be very careful with the stones we want to throw.

So what Im seeing is a debate concerning distinctions between hours worked on the project over a certain number of months VS months listed as an employee of the project. All well n good but I think we'd like to know the actual hours per month put into the project per original dev. That would probably clear up some of that.

However, misappropriating and absconding with a significant portion of the funding of the project, whether one wishes to debate the time to production as adding to the recipe of the entire shambles of things, would seem to be a more compelling issue with the mess. That of course and the subsequent/simultaneous actions of multiple individuals associated with it all to continue to advertise the project as though nothing was amiss.

symbelmyne_sl said:

absolutely 100 percent. they bailed. and it wasn't about the game. it was about the money. The KS was a joke. If they disagreed with going to KS before having content ready, they should have left before the funds came rolling in. Instead they waited to see what Brad's name would bring in... and then they left when they didn't get their "fair" share. Who was using who? they left us all high and dry. and from what has been released, they did jack squat.

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I can't speak for the rest, but for myself it wasn't about the money drying up - it was the manner in which it dried up that caused me to walk away. There should have been zero advances for anyone - and certainly in a world where that was acceptable, it should have been openly discussed with the team beforehand (which didn't happen). I never expected to be earning a living wage for at least a year, assuming we weren't fully funded beforehand - and I expected the funds that were coming in would be held in reserve to a point to cover software purchases, licensing, etc so we could keep moving along for the long haul.

Also the notion of backpay is semantics; in the wordage for my first month's contract it included the assistance that I provided leading up to the kickstarter, but I did not receive 'industry standard' pay, nor did I receive additional money for any involvement in the months leading up to the kickstarter (and rightly so; I had no expectation of pay for that time or anything else for that matter unless we fully funded much later down the road).

Could I have been more visible? Absolutely. Since we went into the KS largely on the team's pedigree and Brad's name though I wouldn't have had much to add that would have been of public interest for a few months further into the project. Many folks out there, this community included, had valid concerns and feedback that should have been better listened to. You can throw virtual rocks at me or whatever if I've personally let you guys and gals down.

That made m e lol.

Sometimes I think I might be fucked up.

at this point brads actions sound like those of a junkie spiralling out of control. your typical junkie will have all these plans about getting control of their addiction and starting a new life and for a while they actually pull it off, then they relapse and all of a sudden you need cash and need it now. this is brad.

I just thought.. ya, you're so broken up inside, you had to take time to tweet about it.

I AM A QUEEN

This was always about the money. 45K in debt doesn't just fucking sneak up on you. We never would of heard about this advance if the trust fund baby didn't back out. He had no intention of going 3 months without being payed and it looks like he's milking the website fund now since in all probability it's being hosted for free. The fact people continue to defend or make excuses for him is absurd.

Meh... Brad taking the lions share of the money always seemed justifiable to me.

The kick starter had zero decent content, so people certainly weren't pledging based on that. It stands to reason then, the monies raised were raised because of Brad's 'brand equity', for lack of a better term.

If I were in his shoes, when I saw the funding failing, I would have fired the whole team. I would have reimbursed any unity purchases and travel expenses to San Diego, paid for web development and Tony's intellectual property... Then I would have pocketed the rest and used it to hire new staff.

But I'm a bit of a cold hearted asshole when it comes to this stuff

Barraco Bisi_sl said:

Justifiable meaning completely retarded

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You think it would have been a wiser course of action to hand tens of thousands of dollars to a mediocre staff who accomplished nothing in 6 months? A staff who had no employment contracts?

We clearly disagree.

Is there any actual evidence that is what he did?