popsicledeath
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Pan'Theon: Rise' of th'e Fal'Len - #1 Thread in MMO
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Sevens
Log Wizard
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Cant argue with any of this, in fact pretty much agree...I was just trying to let people know that "forced grouping" isnt what they have in mind. As far as the camping thing goes...In one of the threads Brad had made the comment about not camping and moving around, a few post later Joppa (who really seems to be in charge over there as Brad isnt around much) saying that there WILL be camping ala EQ style. I honestly feel Brads involvement with this project has been reduced to a sideline player...I just dont see him doing much, maybe thats a good thing with as polarizing as his name is. I really want to be a cheerleader for this game, and I have tried to keep my hopes up but if they dont start releasing info soon I can see myself and others drifting away.
popsicledeath
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Makes you think. If Brad isn't actively engaged in creating the game, maybe he's just there to take all the credit, get high, lie about progress, fuck up the funding, then no-show when his team is fired in the parking lot. And Brad already called in all his favors lying to his old "friend" getting SOE to take over Vanguard.
Why does anyone even want to be a cheerleader for this game? I'd be more excited if there was some shred of proof Brad was actually involved in anything at all, whether its coding or balancing the check book or writing lore. Something at all that shows he's doing something other than having a garage for the previous devs to sit in for a few hours.
Why does anyone even want to be a cheerleader for this game? I'd be more excited if there was some shred of proof Brad was actually involved in anything at all, whether its coding or balancing the check book or writing lore. Something at all that shows he's doing something other than having a garage for the previous devs to sit in for a few hours.
Quaid
Trump's Staff
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What else is there to do besides bullshit in rerolled?
The MMORPG industry is in fucking shambles. Wildstar, Black Desert, ArcheAge, Guild Wars 2, Elder Scrolls Online, and all the other 'next big things' turned out to be one disappointment after another. Titan cancelled, World of Darkness cancelled, and EQNext has a questionable direction and future. Pantheon is quite literally the only MMORPG on the market presenting even a shred of hope at this point. This is an enthusiast community after all, and our discussion topics are quite limited at this point.
If you aren't 'cheerleading' for Pantheon, what are you cheerleading for? Why participate in an oldschool MMORPG community at all? Surely there are better places to discuss vidyas in general. I don't think I see anyone just blindly 'cheerleading' anyway, especially after the events post-kickstarter.
I'm holding out hope, and will continue to discuss the game as if it has some possibility (however slim) of getting released. Other than bail on the genre entirely, it's the only real option.
shabushabu
Molten Core Raider
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Well said. If this title is not that, i will pass. Just hoping and looking for a group based game like in the past. If i want to solo, i can play a lot of great solo RPGs out there. I have a long list of stuff i can't even get to.
The original F-ing idea was, with players to play with you, they could design the classes more like D&D and have roles be very distinct, and when grouped the "squad" is more powerful and can tackle more types of encounters than they could alone given the additional "help" ... either CC, more dps, tanking, healing etc.
The industry has moved away from this and thus I have moved away from MMOs because what was the beauty of teamwork and team based adventuring is gone for convenience and soloability.
I still ask, why play an MMO solo when I can play Skyrim or <insert favorite awesome RPG here> ? To show off my shinies and sell shit on an auction house ? Really ? zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz's
I will say however, history repeats and I think we will see that sort of "social MMO" experience again, especially with PC's as the fastest growing market segment in gaming today... and the fact that PC gaming revenue has taken the lead over consoles ( finally ).... Thank you Kickstarter / MOBAs / etc ?
http://www.forbes.com/sites/jasoneva...keep-fighting/
Sevens
Log Wizard
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Exactly why I want to cheerlead for this game (or at least for this promised style of game)
Sevens
Log Wizard
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When I say "not involved" I meant as the face of...drumming up interest on web sites and pod cast etc etc, Joppa and Monty have been doing all that. As far as I know Brad could be 100% involved behind the scenes, doing coding or what ever magic the GmrGod does.
popsicledeath
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As far we know, Brad could have had a design doc, pre-alpha build and all the tech worked out and just decided not to show any of it during the KS because he got an amazing private investment deal that will fully back his effort of creating the greatest old-school mmorpg (RPG!!!) evaaaar!
popsicledeath
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I think you answered your own question. The original fucking idea was you had players to play with, in a world to share, and if you wanted to team up and tackle harder content you could do that and encounter more types of content than you could alone.
The people pretending EQ was forced grouping aren't even all that accurate. Especially as the game aged poorly, there was plenty of soloing, and definitely the desire to solo. It seemed everyone who could solo, would, or at least try, and those that usually couldn't would still try.
Why? Why would they solo in a game that rewarded grouping instead of just firing up a single player RPG? Because people weren't playing EQ because the single player games sucked, or because they didn't ever want to play alone, they were playing because of the world and interaction. The goal was to progress in the world, and while loading some other game didn't do that at all, even slow soloing could accomplish some measure of progression in EQ.
The real question is how you reward soloing and whether you build game mechanics that encourage, allow or discourage soloing. I've yet to see anything concrete at all from Pantheon on these points, so can't comment, and vaguely hoping something will be how I hope simply because they don't yet have anything isn't really a solid enough foundation for me to get excited about.
shabushabu
Molten Core Raider
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Give me a % of content that was solo by design or Group by design in EQ. That said, do the same for every title since WoW. It has probably changed from 80%group/20%solo to the fucking reverse. That is my point. Its just not interesting to me, others cool but not I.
popsicledeath
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Umm, no content in EQ was by design anything but existing. If you could kill that orc by yourself, go for it. If you couldn't, better get a friend, or group, or raid.
And you asked why solo when you can play Skyrim. I answered that, and didn't even call you a fucking moron, which is pretty good for me. People played EQ because they wanted to progress in that world, and when they didn't have friends to progress with, they tried to progress alone, because they wanted to progress in that world.
So, don't quote me, then not respond to anything I wrote by responding generally as if you're arguing something.
Especially when I point out that a) I agree a company has to decide how they want to reward soloing and how the game mechanics will support that and b) Pantheon has nothing concrete about this so why the fuck do people assume it's going to be something they want when we just don't know.
What the fuck are you even responding to, you fucking moron. Just not happy I think you're a fucking moron and pathetic for having hope in something as shoddy and shaddy as this simply for the fact they have NOTHING so far so it's easy to get your hopes up and impossible to have any semblance of a discussion on anything other than not knowing it's going to suck, because we don't know anything, so hey maybe it's going to rock!
And you asked why solo when you can play Skyrim. I answered that, and didn't even call you a fucking moron, which is pretty good for me. People played EQ because they wanted to progress in that world, and when they didn't have friends to progress with, they tried to progress alone, because they wanted to progress in that world.
So, don't quote me, then not respond to anything I wrote by responding generally as if you're arguing something.
Especially when I point out that a) I agree a company has to decide how they want to reward soloing and how the game mechanics will support that and b) Pantheon has nothing concrete about this so why the fuck do people assume it's going to be something they want when we just don't know.
What the fuck are you even responding to, you fucking moron. Just not happy I think you're a fucking moron and pathetic for having hope in something as shoddy and shaddy as this simply for the fact they have NOTHING so far so it's easy to get your hopes up and impossible to have any semblance of a discussion on anything other than not knowing it's going to suck, because we don't know anything, so hey maybe it's going to rock!
Reht
Molten Core Raider
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They have said they aren't going to build mechanics to artificially prevent soloing but rather are going to focus on designing encounters that require a group, if people can figure out how to solo them, then great. They have said that not all classes will be able to solo at the level or efficiency. Whatever that's worth.
popsicledeath
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Cmon, be fair. Pantheon will be group focused, but not necessarily groups focused. It'll only take a global population of 6 to deliver that old school experience! This is the most promising the game has ever sounded, really.
Reht
Molten Core Raider
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In complete agreement. Pantheon, even with the flaws i perceive, is really the only type of game that interests me in the genre. I will continue to cautiously hope that Pantheon actually sees the light of day, it's the only game other than EQ1 that many of my friends have any interest in playing, so i am stuck playing shitty EQ1 with them until EQ1 is shut down (at the rate it's going, hopefully sooner than later for live) or Pantheon releases.
popsicledeath
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Honest question: has anyone simply played current games and only grouped?
Like Rift, for example, had some really fun dungeons and open-world rifts and shit that one benefited greatly from being in a group. Everyone said oh the game is shit because you can solo to max. But you didn't have to.
People talk about EQ like it forced you to group, and contrast it to newer games as if they forced you to solo. Rift was pretty fun if you focused on group content.
Again, this is why I find the arguments strange sometimes, and make jokes about how it's only the anti-social losers who want forced grouping, because that's the only way they'll get groups, where other people simply choose to group with friends in games that don't force grouping.
I didn't play EQ2, but my guild went there and everyone pretty much only ever grouped and raided and they had fun. Wasn't Wildstar all about grouping? Isn't it such that all the games on the 'failed mmorpg' list could, and often were, consumed by people wanting and willing to group?
Do all games but EQ1 fail because they have solo content, or even encourage it, or are their other reasons they're considered failures despite often being far more popular than EQ, and often more technically sound, bigger, more innovative, etc.
Really, why is it that a game is released where you not only can group, but it's subjectively more fun to group and you're rewarded better for grouping, but people will claim it's just a solo-centric game that sucks and we need EQ1 back.
Are we really sure it's not that more modern games people aren't forced to group with the few anti-social degenerates that could still get groups in EQ1 because grouping was forced and certain classes were needed?
Logical conclusion: you actually are just a bunch of anti-social fucktards who miss EQ1 because you COULD be grouping and socializing in more modern games, you just don't because of the anti-social fucktard part, so need a game where people need you and group with you even if they don't like you or want you.
Like Rift, for example, had some really fun dungeons and open-world rifts and shit that one benefited greatly from being in a group. Everyone said oh the game is shit because you can solo to max. But you didn't have to.
People talk about EQ like it forced you to group, and contrast it to newer games as if they forced you to solo. Rift was pretty fun if you focused on group content.
Again, this is why I find the arguments strange sometimes, and make jokes about how it's only the anti-social losers who want forced grouping, because that's the only way they'll get groups, where other people simply choose to group with friends in games that don't force grouping.
I didn't play EQ2, but my guild went there and everyone pretty much only ever grouped and raided and they had fun. Wasn't Wildstar all about grouping? Isn't it such that all the games on the 'failed mmorpg' list could, and often were, consumed by people wanting and willing to group?
Do all games but EQ1 fail because they have solo content, or even encourage it, or are their other reasons they're considered failures despite often being far more popular than EQ, and often more technically sound, bigger, more innovative, etc.
Really, why is it that a game is released where you not only can group, but it's subjectively more fun to group and you're rewarded better for grouping, but people will claim it's just a solo-centric game that sucks and we need EQ1 back.
Are we really sure it's not that more modern games people aren't forced to group with the few anti-social degenerates that could still get groups in EQ1 because grouping was forced and certain classes were needed?
Logical conclusion: you actually are just a bunch of anti-social fucktards who miss EQ1 because you COULD be grouping and socializing in more modern games, you just don't because of the anti-social fucktard part, so need a game where people need you and group with you even if they don't like you or want you.
Reht
Molten Core Raider
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No, but i also solo in EQ1. While i prefer an EQ style of play; camping one spot rather than constantly running around doing quests or random dungeons, i don't dislike many of the new games, i just prefer the EQ style of play to the WoW style of play - has nothing to do with forced grouping. I was one of the few people who argued that soloing should allowed in Pantheon on their boards. Ultimately i play where my friends play. When they take their periodic breaks, i go try a new game for while.
Sevens
Log Wizard
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A lot depends on what you mean by grouping...You could and did group up in Rift for dungeons and rifts but honestly what happened? You joined an auto group finder, ported to the zone, ran in and wafflestomped everything without saying more than 2 words to the other people in the group, finished the dungeon in 30 mins or less because god forbid it actually take time to complete something. You zone out of the instance and rejoin the auto group finder....rinse and repeat ad nauseam. In a Rift you auto joined a group (anyone could join your group unless you turned your group private) Zerged anything that the Rift spawned then disbanded once complete usually without saying a word to your group mates. In EQ I would spend days at a time in KC or other dungeons, got to know others in the area, got to talk to them while being LFG or even chatting during down time in a group...everything in modern MMOs is just so fast paced that you have no time to visit, to get to know other...to build a community, thats what I hope the "grouping" in Pantheon can bring back
shabushabu
Molten Core Raider
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Wouldn't anti-social fucktards LOVE SOLO GAMES ? In grouping games if you are an anti social fucktard as you put it, no one is going to accept you in group because of your reputation. It helps weed out these types because you have to have some social skills and be able to "play nice" to handle it. I find it funny that you point out the opposite of reality to make an argument.
If you can't recognize the design implications to classes, content, mobs, abilities in solo-based games vs Group based games you are either trolling or a little light on the brainpower.
To further add, a-hole behavior in MMOs was always more rampant in games where soloing was the path because people didn't have to be nice and worry about rep, in grouping games you had to. So it weeds out those you are pointing out, in solo games they are everywhere.
The real desire on my part is a game system built on group based content. Most games these days are not and we need some in the mix.
popsicledeath
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In Rift, why didn't you log in, talk to guild mates, start a group for some dungeons or events, find some people from out of the guild if you needed, and chat with guild mates in group chat to include the out of guild people?
Was it because you couldn't do that, or just didn't? And why not?
Days at KC? Maan, maybe that's the disconnect, because I went to KC a few times right at release with my guild, killed some shit, had some fun, but within weeks it devolved into a bunch of people hanging around the zone line begging for scraps and hoping to snag a random mob.
Maybe that's the difference. In EQ I was usually in guild groups, or groups formed through tells with friends, and we were pushing into lesser populated areas. Same general practice with guilds and friends in more current games, only thing that's different is everything is more accessible so I don't get to feel special, I guess, but shrug?
Never understood the sentiment that we need a forced grouping game because you were in groups where nobody, including you, ever chatted in recent games. And when you want to chat it's just too darn fast paced with all the actual playing of the game you get to do, and there aren't boring stretches where nobody has anything to do but chat with strangers in a game (because you're choosing to group with strangers, not friends). Umm, so you ARE part of the problem?
I agree, though, I miss the days you'd really take the time to get to know people in life.... because there wasn't anything to do in the cave other than grunt at one another and they'd be eaten by a sabretooth or die of disease by the time they were 25 so you felt you had to get to know them asap! Ahh, the good ol days!