IMO there are reasonable arguments on both side of the twink/item restriction debate but I'd be shocked if anyone thought 'combat mode' style restrictions were a good idea.
Pan'Theon: Rise' of th'e Fal'Len - #1 Thread in MMO
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Couldn't enter any of the planes until 46. De-leveling from dying in a plane and being unable to re-enter was the best.
That venom axe though Venomous Axe of the Velium Brood - Project 1999 Wiki. That shit was amazing for twinks until the level restriction for procs was added.
Personally, I'm all for twinking, but I understand why some are against it. It was just something to do in game when I was bored of my main.
Reht
Molten Core Raider
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Well let's also be honest, badass twinking was also a bit of a bit of a status symbol too. Twink warriors, monks, etc. running around with SoDs and BoCs..... It also gave me something to spend money on when i had no reason to spend money; my main was about as well geared as you could get.
zzeris
King Turd of Shit Hill
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That's because the 'paying audience' is telling them two disparate opinions. I want harsher death penalties and a harder game...yet I'm all for twinking low levels which is the exact opposite of wanting harder anything. "I want PLing. Please make this game harder for everyone....but me and my buddies." Hmmmmmm. No wonder no one has seen a repeat of EQ. Developers have gotten smarter and moved past this 'paying audience' that needs broken mechanics to feel special. Bad game design is bad game design.
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It sucks but it's true. The average consumer of ANYTHING is fucking retarded. You have to balance a fine line between everything and everyone.
This is basically the retards in this thread.
This is basically the retards in this thread.
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But it's not necessarily bad design. It's just something else to do within the game. As people have already stated, part of the draw with EQ WAS the twinking game. No other game really offered that as a "feature" and it was fun to do. It doesn't matter if it was intended or not. That part is completely irrelevant.
Keep in mind that for the very vast majority, twinking does not occur until after a player has played through a good portion of the content at least once on a main. So any argument the devs or anyone else has that says it cheapens the gaming experience is only looking at part of the picture.
At the end of the day, plenty of people in EQ logged into the game at some point to play around with their twinks. The fact they logged in should be all that matters. Impossible to say what percentage of those people might have chosen not to log in at all if twinking wasn't allowed but suffice it to say, at least some percentage did.
Logging in is good for the overall health of the game, regardless of what you're doing. Not logging in is not.
Twinking may not make sense for every MMO out there, but this is certainly a game where it does.
And for the record, I enjoyed twinking as much as anyone as it certainly prolonged my EQ experience but it wouldn't be a deal breaker for me if Pantheon went the scaled route instead.
Keep in mind that for the very vast majority, twinking does not occur until after a player has played through a good portion of the content at least once on a main. So any argument the devs or anyone else has that says it cheapens the gaming experience is only looking at part of the picture.
At the end of the day, plenty of people in EQ logged into the game at some point to play around with their twinks. The fact they logged in should be all that matters. Impossible to say what percentage of those people might have chosen not to log in at all if twinking wasn't allowed but suffice it to say, at least some percentage did.
Logging in is good for the overall health of the game, regardless of what you're doing. Not logging in is not.
Twinking may not make sense for every MMO out there, but this is certainly a game where it does.
And for the record, I enjoyed twinking as much as anyone as it certainly prolonged my EQ experience but it wouldn't be a deal breaker for me if Pantheon went the scaled route instead.
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zzeris
King Turd of Shit Hill
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Exactly. It also hinders the ability to provide new items and experiences. The developers(which are newer to developing games), would now have to work around all the bad game design they previously did to cater to a small subset of the population. People always talk about how they love that EQ gear can be used forever. Game developers hate that shit. When they make new expansions, they either have to go even further overboard to get players to be wowed by new gear, or no one wants it. On top of that, they have to design mobs and encounters on how twinked that player is. All that hard work because you couldn't make balanced gear or experiences in the first place. An entire expansion created and then you have the results a_skeleton_02 shows in that Simpsons video. Bunch of people complaining because no new good gear, or shit wasn't 'hard' enough(wink, wink). On top of that, new players or people that didn't sperg all the time trying to abuse the system...have a much harder game to play. Which, they usually quit.
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From my experience of being in the top guild on P99 during the golden age of selling loot to scrubs the people who NEED twinking are usually the people who just camp items 24/7. They basically level to the cap and don't have the intelligence or skill to raid even casually so they just farm Guk until they get bored and reroll another character to repeat the cycle. Funny fact they actually play more than raiders who have 1-2 characters.
I mean I will 1000% twink to the gils if i can because I hate leveling but only the most delusional person thinks that EQ style twinking was any way healthy.
Also twinking lets bad players get to max level easily when they would normally be culled out.
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zzeris
King Turd of Shit Hill
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a_skeleton_02,
I also noted that few campers were raiders. Either they camped to make money off lazy retards or they just camped to twink their lowbies so they didn't have to play this amazing game as much. I always found it funny that some of the biggest defenders of EQ were the people who obviously hated playing it the intended way. I need to PL my alts to 50, 60, etc ASAP because this is one shitty playing experience! Go EQ!!
I also noted that few campers were raiders. Either they camped to make money off lazy retards or they just camped to twink their lowbies so they didn't have to play this amazing game as much. I always found it funny that some of the biggest defenders of EQ were the people who obviously hated playing it the intended way. I need to PL my alts to 50, 60, etc ASAP because this is one shitty playing experience! Go EQ!!
I mean I don't want to sound biased because I was a raider and I almost never camped shit after the initial crazy rush with the exception of Fungi Tunic/Seafuries for my stream.
But you are correct. It was always the casual guilds that camped everything for the most part, Camping items are the endgame for the baddies.
It was a simple scam really
Heres classic.
We farm Naggy and Vox and Inny and Cazic and we would bank and roughly 60% of the loot because it was bad. Yes Cloak of Flames are bad when you have 15 of them to bank and none of your main raiders need them.
We would sell these items with extreme mark ups to casuals because they could not get them elsewhere and then we would use that plat to buy characters from the players who got burned out farming plat to buy our items.
We then would camp the characters out at every raid location giving us better mobility and allowing us to beat the guilds that want to get the gear fairly.
In Kunark it even got better! We would sell almost everything from the outdoor dragons and after 3-6 months we would sell Trak BPs and VS legs. The big spenders would spend 200k a TOOTH for a VP Key just for the fucking PRIVILEGE of sitting outside the zone so they could be brought in to fucking pay 100k+ for no drop items that we would let rot every fucking week.
Once they banned character buying we would just swim around scrooge McDuck style in fucking pools of platinum and would then RMT it back to the retards so they could GIVE IT BACK TO US for items that would rot anyways.
This pissed off the staff because as we know now they ran the RMT business on the server so they enacted a bunch of rules that drove us off the server so they could sell in peace.
That was on P99 the most faithful recreation of classic EQ that existed since actual classic EQ and Twinking basically ruined the game for anyone who actually wanted to play it faithfully.
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zzeris
King Turd of Shit Hill
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I never ran with such an efficient outfit but I admire the will to dominate. I want the game to be less a broken money cow and business for your obvious stated reasons. It would be hilarious seeing the cognitive dissonance needed to defend that system after your post but I'm sure they moved back to the Pantheon forums to complain in harmony with a dumber gaming population. I knew guilds who had several guys who only farmed plat just to buy from guys like you. "Better than never getting to that level, right guildies?" I am completely against a similar system and I'm sure Braddy Boy is too. As you said, very unhealthy gaming environment and they had to spend a lot of resources just on you guys much less fixing bugs galore.
ili
Blackwing Lair Raider
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There was good part of the classic Eq community that loved to twink, power level, multibox, quad kite, solo, and farm for whatever reasons.
Why would someone who is making a reskin clone of said game, that couldn't even reach its kickstarter goal, want to piss these people off, in anyway? The game is already hugely niche and killing off part of what drew a good part of the people to EQ is a pretty dumb move, anyway you look at it. These are the type of things that Killed EQ2 and will possibly kill this game, if used in the wrong way or overdone. I did read brad's post about it, but it's pretty bad that they are even thinking about it. I seriously think his team has never even played Classic EQ, before it got destroyed by shit expansions. They all sound youngish.
Nobody is not going to play because a level 50 can fully buff a level 1 guildmate alt, and give them items. But there are people that might not play because of too many limitations on what a player can do, Eq2 style, after reaching max level.
It's not like there are going to be max level people running around on day 1, it will probably take month or so, when the newbie areas are already abandoned by then. I don't think anyone thinks this game is going to have a huge population of players to begin with.
If the game even makes it to release that is and isn't a huge pile of buggy shit.
Does coke boy even come here anymore? You would think the fags here would be his main focus.
Why would someone who is making a reskin clone of said game, that couldn't even reach its kickstarter goal, want to piss these people off, in anyway? The game is already hugely niche and killing off part of what drew a good part of the people to EQ is a pretty dumb move, anyway you look at it. These are the type of things that Killed EQ2 and will possibly kill this game, if used in the wrong way or overdone. I did read brad's post about it, but it's pretty bad that they are even thinking about it. I seriously think his team has never even played Classic EQ, before it got destroyed by shit expansions. They all sound youngish.
Nobody is not going to play because a level 50 can fully buff a level 1 guildmate alt, and give them items. But there are people that might not play because of too many limitations on what a player can do, Eq2 style, after reaching max level.
It's not like there are going to be max level people running around on day 1, it will probably take month or so, when the newbie areas are already abandoned by then. I don't think anyone thinks this game is going to have a huge population of players to begin with.
If the game even makes it to release that is and isn't a huge pile of buggy shit.
Does coke boy even come here anymore? You would think the fags here would be his main focus.
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zzeris
King Turd of Shit Hill
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Actually he doesn't want to hurt the feelings of fags like you who are actually putting money into supporting him the past few years. Don't worry, the aspies on your primary site still think you are right. I'll bold the parts you focused on that are directly against the needing a group aspect you will probably sperg about in another post. No wonder developers left your crowd behind over a decade ago. You don't even know what you want.
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Ok you're really fucking stupid, Like
Tolan
stupid.They failed their kickstarter because originally they only catered to the original EQ community. They even had fucking fundraisers on P99 the largest collection of EQ fans on the fucking planet. People who want to play the exact original EQ in 2017 either have no money or no lives and neither of those types of people are good targets for investors and kickstarters. Brad has come to his senses after that disaster and left the EQ spurgs behind, Not because he does not like original EQ but he knows that the people who are still frothing for Classic EQ probably have some sort of Autism (myself included)
What the majority of this forum wants (And sorry bro THIS forum is the real Pantheon forum the official forum and the reddit are soppy shit) what THIS forum wants is a reskin of EQ in the sense of having an Open World Non-Themepark game with a high difficulty curve and an immersive lore rich setting that fosters and cultivates community interaction.
Heavy handed Twinking: Damages the difficulty curve, ruins lore, and damages community interaction.
Multiboxing perma camping items: Damages Community Interaction
Quad Kite/Bard Kiting/PLing entire zones: Damages Community Interaction, Ruins Lore, Damages Difficulty Curve.
It's become ABUNDANTLY clear in your last few dozen posts that you are one of those autists that boxes four characters at once and just likes to farm shit and be anti social.
I know you have some fantasy of reliving the glory days of selling your shitty EQ characters by leveling up Pantheon guys but you might actually have to get a job.
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zzeris
King Turd of Shit Hill
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Ok you're really fucking stupid, Like
They failed their kickstarter because originally they only catered to the original EQ community. They even had fucking fundraisers on P99 the largest collection of EQ fans on the fucking planet. People who want to play the exact original EQ in 2017 either have no money or no lives and neither of those types of people are good targets for investors and kickstarters. Brad has come to his senses after that disaster and left the EQ spurgs behind, Not because he does not like original EQ but he knows that the people who are still frothing for Classic EQ probably have some sort of Autism (myself included)
What the majority of this forum wants (And sorry bro THIS forum is the real Pantheon forum the official forum and the reddit are soppy shit) what THIS forum wants is a reskin of EQ in the sense of having an Open World Non-Themepark game with a high difficulty curve and an immersive lore rich setting that fosters and cultivates community interaction.
Heavy handed Twinking: Damages the difficulty curve, ruins lore, and damages community interaction.
Multiboxing perma camping items: Damages Community Interaction
Quad Kite/Bard Kiting/PLing entire zones: Damages Community Interaction, Ruins Lore, Damages Difficulty Curve.
It's become ABUNDANTLY clear in your last few dozen posts that you are one of those autists that boxes four characters at once and just likes to farm shit and be anti social.
I know you have some fantasy of reliving the glory days of selling your shitty EQ characters by leveling up Pantheon guys but you might actually have to get a job.
a_skeleton_02, we need a worf button in this place. You're the Lithose of this thread. Parachuters from Pantheon.org won't understand the reference or your points.
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Kharzette
Watcher of Overs
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Finally got around to watching the latest stream. Really looks like my kind of thing.
That was a very non optimal group compared to the last stream. Rogue mez failed a few times, and they had a tougher time with heals.
It looked like Brad tanked better than their main tank to me, but maybe he was just super geared out. Wizzy aggro was real. Never saw Cohh fall to the ground on stream but I noticed he had before the stream started in his log.
I hope they add EQ's crunchy hit sounds when you get hit relative to your remaining health.
That was a very non optimal group compared to the last stream. Rogue mez failed a few times, and they had a tougher time with heals.
It looked like Brad tanked better than their main tank to me, but maybe he was just super geared out. Wizzy aggro was real. Never saw Cohh fall to the ground on stream but I noticed he had before the stream started in his log.
I hope they add EQ's crunchy hit sounds when you get hit relative to your remaining health.
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Tolan
Member of the Year 2016
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Ok you're really fucking stupid, Like
They failed their kickstarter because originally they only catered to the original EQ community. They even had fucking fundraisers on P99 the largest collection of EQ fans on the fucking planet. People who want to play the exact original EQ in 2017 either have no money or no lives and neither of those types of people are good targets for investors and kickstarters. Brad has come to his senses after that disaster and left the EQ spurgs behind, Not because he does not like original EQ but he knows that the people who are still frothing for Classic EQ probably have some sort of Autism (myself included)
What the majority of this forum wants (And sorry bro THIS forum is the real Pantheon forum the official forum and the reddit are soppy shit) what THIS forum wants is a reskin of EQ in the sense of having an Open World Non-Themepark game with a high difficulty curve and an immersive lore rich setting that fosters and cultivates community interaction.
Heavy handed Twinking: Damages the difficulty curve, ruins lore, and damages community interaction.
Multiboxing perma camping items: Damages Community Interaction
Quad Kite/Bard Kiting/PLing entire zones: Damages Community Interaction, Ruins Lore, Damages Difficulty Curve.
It's become ABUNDANTLY clear in your last few dozen posts that you are one of those autists that boxes four characters at once and just likes to farm shit and be anti social.
I know you have some fantasy of reliving the glory days of selling your shitty EQ characters by leveling up Pantheon guys but you might actually have to get a job.
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