Pan'Theon: Rise' of th'e Fal'Len - #1 Thread in MMO

Lunis

Lunis

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Joppa_VR said:
Where it seems like people are getting hung up is how Pantheon might deviate from its core vision in order to attract the most people possible. I want to assure anyone who cares about the ultimate direction and outcome of this game that this is not our goal. Having worked with Brad to establish the tenets for Pantheon - they are just as much mine as his, and I have no plans to deviate from them. But the exact details on how the various elements of the game are executed may not always be what someone expected, particularly when it isn’t done the same way it was in EverQuest.
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Unless we have concrete examples of what we're talking about here then it's just gamedev speak. Brad was very adamant about things such as no maps, especially dungeon maps. Has this changed?

- Will Pantheon be a group-centric game? Yes. Grouping in Pantheon will be the most fulfilling game experience and will always lead to greater rewards. However, we also want to see paths for solo-viability as well, similar to the paths that existed in EverQuest, with even more possibilities in Pantheon for players who think creatively.
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I'm more interested in the flow of grouping. You had mostly camps in EQ, but mostly dungeon crawling in Vanguard. Where does Pantheon lie on that spectrum?

The main assertion I made regarding the death penalty is that it is not something we are going to drive so strongly and so harshly that we end up alienating a lot of people who would/could have otherwise loved everything Pantheon is going to be.
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It sounds more and more like you are going with experience debt as opposed to flat xp loss. The big question is will your equipped gear be on your corpse or not?

- Will Pantheon be a highly challenging game? Yes. Significantly moreso than EverQuest was (which is also a factor that must feed into how the death penalty is balanced). But we won’t be beating players over the head at level 1. The nuances, challenge and complexities of the game will unfold over time.
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What I want to know is what a typical raid night for an average guild will look like. Modern WoW or FFXIV you have essentially infinite pulls with minimal downtime & use of consumables -it's purely a gear and skill check. For EQ or even vanilla WoW it was everything that came before the pull that made it difficult, the mechanics themselves were not very challenging. What is your guys vision for raiding?
 
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ili

ili

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Joppa_VR said:
@Arden Was good to read your posts - helps to clarify where some things may have been lost in translation from that podcast.

The point of the video was simply this: to emphasize our expectation that Pantheon is going to be a game that resonates with a lot of people and to disempower the word “niche” as it’s currently wielded in the context of Pantheon (to gate-keep potential fans of the game and hamstring our efforts to evolve what an MMORPG experience can be).

Where it seems like people are getting hung up is how Pantheon might deviate from its core vision in order to attract the most people possible. I want to assure anyone who cares about the ultimate direction and outcome of this game that this is not our goal. Having worked with Brad to establish the tenets for Pantheon - they are just as much mine as his, and I have no plans to deviate from them. But the exact details on how the various elements of the game are executed may not always be what someone expected, particularly when it isn’t done the same way it was in EverQuest.

A clone of EverQuest would admittedly be a "niche" game - and there's nothing wrong with that. But I believe a game made in the spirit of EverQuest, embracing all that it did well while also innovating/evolving various game systems and embracing modern advances would not be a "niche" game. I believe there are many, many people out there who would love a game like we're making. This doesn’t mean we are making Pantheon specifically to attract the largest amount of people - we wouldn’t have a death penalty, for example, if that was our goal. But I believe what we're making will resonate with a lot of people. Those are two different statements.

So let’s do a quick check list:

- Will Pantheon be a group-centric game? Yes. Grouping in Pantheon will be the most fulfilling game experience and will always lead to greater rewards. However, we also want to see paths for solo-viability as well, similar to the paths that existed in EverQuest, with even more possibilities in Pantheon for players who think creatively.

- Will Pantheon have a death penalty? Yes. I emphasized in the podcast that a death penalty, and one that is actually felt, is necessary to create a truly immersive experience. But I also believe real tension can be achieved without an overly punitive death penalty. And that's the key. The main assertion I made regarding the death penalty is that it is not something we are going to drive so strongly and so harshly that we end up alienating a lot of people who would/could have otherwise loved everything Pantheon is going to be.

The other consideration we’re taking into account for the death penalty is to make sure that it’s not parasitic to our other game systems or gameplay goals. A death penalty is critical to the fabric of the game. However, where some may see us “watering it down” for the sake of attracting more players, the reality is that the severity of the death penalty needs to be commensurate with the other game systems that form the complete experience. In other words, we would be designing against ourselves if we implemented an overly punitive death penalty while encouraging players to go out, explore, discover, take risks and uphold our longstanding goal of a 2-3 hour core play experience.

And I’ll refrain from touching on the effect 96% rez sticks had on the feeling of tension in EQ. I’d like for death to always create tension in Pantheon, so this is an area I feel like we can improve.

- Will Pantheon be a highly challenging game? Yes. Significantly moreso than EverQuest was (which is also a factor that must feed into how the death penalty is balanced). But we won’t be beating players over the head at level 1. The nuances, challenge and complexities of the game will unfold over time.

- Will travel be long and meaningful? Meaningful is a bit subjective, but I think a true sense of “arrival” is part of making the world feel truly massive (i.e. the first time you made the run from Qeynos to Freeport on foot). And we have no intention of overloading the game with fast-travel options. However, I do firmly believe that faster forms of movement and a careful application of fast-travel elements that players can open up for themselves over time is an important part of the player growth and prestige arc.
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This all sounds like a bunch of scripted NPC dev bullshit that all game developers say. Thanks for nothing.
 
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Deathwing

Deathwing

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Joppa's just waiting for someone to hit the correct [keyword] to post again. Keep trying!


Hint: it's not [Mad because Brad].
 
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Tearofsoul

Tearofsoul

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9 years later and you guys are still circle jerking on some 'next EQ game designs'. You realize even Amazon has developed, launched, and failed on an new MMO...

BlfSUSc.jpeg


MMO_Wolf_McQuaid.jpg
 
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Khane

Khane

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Whoa... Yea!!! [Kickstart] my heart!

"Thousands of years have passed hero. Civilizations have waxed and waned. You've unlocked the secrets of the Pantheon. You've become... one of the Fallen."

Jesus Christ, after all that I already beat the game? Fuckin thing sucks!
 
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Erronius

Erronius

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Maybe Joppa is missing a pre-flag for his Pantheon progression?
 
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Foler

The_Black_Log Foler

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Joppa_VR said:
@Arden Was good to read your posts - helps to clarify where some things may have been lost in translation from that podcast.

The point of the video was simply this: to emphasize our expectation that Pantheon is going to be a game that resonates with a lot of people and to disempower the word “niche” as it’s currently wielded in the context of Pantheon (to gate-keep potential fans of the game and hamstring our efforts to evolve what an MMORPG experience can be).

Where it seems like people are getting hung up is how Pantheon might deviate from its core vision in order to attract the most people possible. I want to assure anyone who cares about the ultimate direction and outcome of this game that this is not our goal. Having worked with Brad to establish the tenets for Pantheon - they are just as much mine as his, and I have no plans to deviate from them. But the exact details on how the various elements of the game are executed may not always be what someone expected, particularly when it isn’t done the same way it was in EverQuest.

A clone of EverQuest would admittedly be a "niche" game - and there's nothing wrong with that. But I believe a game made in the spirit of EverQuest, embracing all that it did well while also innovating/evolving various game systems and embracing modern advances would not be a "niche" game. I believe there are many, many people out there who would love a game like we're making. This doesn’t mean we are making Pantheon specifically to attract the largest amount of people - we wouldn’t have a death penalty, for example, if that was our goal. But I believe what we're making will resonate with a lot of people. Those are two different statements.

So let’s do a quick check list:

- Will Pantheon be a group-centric game? Yes. Grouping in Pantheon will be the most fulfilling game experience and will always lead to greater rewards. However, we also want to see paths for solo-viability as well, similar to the paths that existed in EverQuest, with even more possibilities in Pantheon for players who think creatively.

- Will Pantheon have a death penalty? Yes. I emphasized in the podcast that a death penalty, and one that is actually felt, is necessary to create a truly immersive experience. But I also believe real tension can be achieved without an overly punitive death penalty. And that's the key. The main assertion I made regarding the death penalty is that it is not something we are going to drive so strongly and so harshly that we end up alienating a lot of people who would/could have otherwise loved everything Pantheon is going to be.

The other consideration we’re taking into account for the death penalty is to make sure that it’s not parasitic to our other game systems or gameplay goals. A death penalty is critical to the fabric of the game. However, where some may see us “watering it down” for the sake of attracting more players, the reality is that the severity of the death penalty needs to be commensurate with the other game systems that form the complete experience. In other words, we would be designing against ourselves if we implemented an overly punitive death penalty while encouraging players to go out, explore, discover, take risks and uphold our longstanding goal of a 2-3 hour core play experience.

And I’ll refrain from touching on the effect 96% rez sticks had on the feeling of tension in EQ. I’d like for death to always create tension in Pantheon, so this is an area I feel like we can improve.

- Will Pantheon be a highly challenging game? Yes. Significantly moreso than EverQuest was (which is also a factor that must feed into how the death penalty is balanced). But we won’t be beating players over the head at level 1. The nuances, challenge and complexities of the game will unfold over time.

- Will travel be long and meaningful? Meaningful is a bit subjective, but I think a true sense of “arrival” is part of making the world feel truly massive (i.e. the first time you made the run from Qeynos to Freeport on foot). And we have no intention of overloading the game with fast-travel options. However, I do firmly believe that faster forms of movement and a careful application of fast-travel elements that players can open up for themselves over time is an important part of the player growth and prestige arc.
Click to expand...
Dude do you seriously believe in the work you do? Do something with your life before it’s too late.
 
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Foler

The_Black_Log Foler

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Hateyou said:
And no matter how hard he tried, how much of his life he devoted to it, Foler Foler still lost the competition. Don’t be a Foler Joppa_VR Joppa_VR
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Lmao doubt anyone on pantheons dev team has a Rolex on their wrist of Tiffany’s lighting their house.
 
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Threelions

Threelions

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Foler said:
Lmao doubt anyone on pantheons dev team has a Rolex on their wrist of Tiffany’s lighting their house.
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Rolex funding went to mozz sticks, cocaine and that crazy church bat

here….

forums.mmorpg.com

DO NOT INVEST IN PANTHEON!

Pantheon is a game made by Brad McQuaid. I believe in him and his dream. His money management issue is not why I say do not invest.
forums.mmorpg.com forums.mmorpg.com
 
yerm

yerm

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Just give people an "honest" timeframe for when someone besides cohh will be able play some form or semblance of the game.

If you can do that you assuage a majority of the hate, at least if/until the deadline is missed. Donors will have access to a limited access alpha server 4th quarter 2023? Ok.

If you can't do that it's because what everyone but our defender of the incels and champion of chadbashers has been saying is actually true: this game is never going to release.
 
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