Pan'Theon: Rise' of th'e Fal'Len - #1 Thread in MMO

TragedyAnn_sl

shitlord
222
1
I wonder how Pathfinder got 200k to come in the last day. Did one of the developers put in his own money?
I've thought about that too. Like the Camelot Unchained kickstarter, that Jacobs guy said he'd throw in 2mil of his own money to go with the funding raised. People who have millions to throw aroundusuallyknow other money people, so I don't think it's a stretch to think a lot of his big money funders were wealthy buddies.
I WAS gonna say, it's unfair to use Pantheon's kickstarter as an example because of their HUGE table top following. They already HAD fans and a way to reach them all. They already have lore and art and a game model that people are familiar with. But what do I know. I am but a sad rag doll.
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Convo

Ahn'Qiraj Raider
8,761
613
Yea they need to step it up.. I think there has been some really valuable feedback in this forum for them.. From people who actually have experience in the areas they came up short on. Hopefully they listened and get things moving starting Monday..
 

etchazz

Trakanon Raider
2,707
1,056
EQ was $8M, Vanguard $30M, WoW $80M, SWTOR $200M.

As you can see, it's all over the place. I think making an MMO with a target audience can be done for around $8M if not less.
jesus titty fucking christ. $200 million american dollars for SWTOR? how did they fuck that game up so bad when the damn game cost more to make than all three of the original movies combined?
 

Muligan

Trakanon Raider
3,215
895
My only concern is where this is such a targeted group that their niche audience isn't going to be enough to pull this KS campaign off. Those of us that know and like what Brad is saying probably know about it and have made their decision. I'm hoping i'm very much wrong. This week will tell a lot but I think the ball is in their court to get some solid information out to win some people over.
 

Grave_sl

shitlord
47
0
jesus titty fucking christ. $200 million american dollars for SWTOR? how did they fuck that game up so bad when the damn game cost more to make than all three of the original movies combined?
That's what happens when you build a content model around tons and tons of quests that require voice acting paired with a poorly managed content development pipeline.

I feel an EQ successor shouldn't cost more than $20M even today, but you'd have to be really smart about it from the outset (again, focusing on building only a great core experience without fluff) and rein in the bloat/feature creep whenever it rears its head. Also wouldn't hurt if you're particular good at spotting young, hungry talent that you can hire cheaply but produce work as good as industry veterans. This is especially easy to do in the art department. We had interns at 38 who were absolutely mindblowingly good character and texture artists - as good or better than any vet I've met.

And obviously when I say $20M I'm assuming you aren't afraid to release a very basic core game, be very upfront about that with consumers, and then be willing to grow the game from there. Content would be light, but if the core gameplay is solid it could work.
 

Vandraad_sl

shitlord
50
0
Yeah not good. It's a long weekend, people are home and can surf the net. Info not getting out as fast and as far as it needs to go.
It's still the tiers causing problems. My group of friends are looking at it right now and they are just ridiculing those tier choices.
 

etchazz

Trakanon Raider
2,707
1,056
That's what happens when you build a content model around tons and tons of quests that require voice acting paired with a poorly managed content development pipeline.

I feel an EQ successor shouldn't cost more than $20M even today, but you'd have to be really smart about it from the outset (again, focusing on building only a great core experience without fluff) and rein in the bloat/feature creep whenever it rears its head. Also wouldn't hurt if you're particular good at spotting young, hungry talent that you can hire cheaply but produce work as good as industry veterans. This is especially easy to do in the art department. We had interns at 38 who were absolutely mindblowingly good character and texture artists - as good or better than any vet I've met.

And obviously when I say $20M I'm assuming you aren't afraid to release a very basic core game, be very upfront about that with consumers, and then be willing to grow the game from there. Content would be light, but if the core gameplay is solid it could work.
hey, i like what brad has stated could be available if they hit their goal of $6.7 million (water content!)
someone hit the powerball tonight and make it happen.
 

calla_sl

shitlord
202
0
Newest update by Silius. Aren't Brad and their PR guy reading this thread and others? That guy is hated, keep him out of the public eye as much as possible. He will cost you more than he'll make you. He is such an asshole. Pisses me off he has a job.
either that or a public mea culpa
 

Grave_sl

shitlord
47
0
hey, i like what brad has stated could be available if they hit their goal of $6.7 million (water content!)
someone hit the powerball tonight and make it happen.
Eh, I find that to be a weird stretch goal and a good example of something that could cause things to go sideways. Don't get me wrong - unlike many players I actually really enjoy underwater content and I completely agree with Brad's opinion that if done well it's this really unique and compelling environment to explore. But at the end of the day, going back to what I'm talking about with using all available resources to just make a really solid and polished core, it isn'tnecessary. It's the type of thing where if he's really passionate about it and thinks they can do something cool with it, great - do it post-launch. First new free dungeon update or first expansion or whatever could be all underwater for all I care. But I'd be feeling much more optimistic if I heard they were only launching with a level cap of 40, about 10 overland zones and a bunch of huge (but relatively simple art-wise) EQ style dungeons, and then the rest of their resources are all in on great systems that make the game fun to play no matter where you are in the world. Make leveling slow and good items hard to acquire and I'd have enough to keep me happy until they roll out more, assuming the most basic thing--killing mobs and getting exp/loot--is just fun to do.
 

etchazz

Trakanon Raider
2,707
1,056
Eh, I find that to be a weird stretch goal and a good example of something that could cause things to go sideways. Don't get me wrong - unlike many players I actually really enjoy underwater content and I completely agree with Brad's opinion that if done well it's this really unique and compelling environment to explore. But at the end of the day, going back to what I'm talking about with using all available resources to just make a really solid and polished core, it isn'tnecessary. It's the type of thing where if he's really passionate about it and thinks they can do something cool with it, great - do it post-launch. First new free dungeon update or first expansion or whatever could be all underwater for all I care. But I'd be feeling much more optimistic if I heard they were only launching with a level cap of 40, about 10 overland zones and a bunch of huge (but relatively simple art-wise) EQ style dungeons, and then the rest of their resources are all in on great systems that make the game fun to play no matter where you are in the world. Make leveling slow and good items hard to acquire and I'd have enough to keep me happy until they roll out more, assuming the most basic thing--killing mobs and getting exp/loot--is just fun to do.
i wasn't even really thinking about underwater content (although i do love me some kedge keep). i was thinking about just being able to buy a sailboat and explore the open seas. maybe find some small, hidden islands. that would be epic.
 

Aradune_sl

shitlord
188
0
Too bad it's 2 years old and from deviantart. Is this J.P. Targete guy part of the team or are you just aping his art
I've worked on a couple of projects now with JP. This is art he did a while back for side project of mine, but we are using it in Pantheon. And we are continuing to work with him. I think his art compliments James' art quite nicely and he understands what we're trying to accomplish in terms of world design (lots of variety, etc.). Which is, obviously, really important. I've worked with great artists, but some don't get what you're after, and so it really doesn't matter how technically good they are if they don't 'feel' the project, the world, and its goals.
 

tad10

Elisha Dushku
5,518
583
i wasn't even really thinking about underwater content (although i do love me some kedge keep). i was thinking about just being able to buy a sailboat and explore the open seas. maybe find some small, hidden islands. that would be epic.
yeah, there actually is a place for some procedurally generated content in an EQ world and water is a good place for it. Sail around and find some literally uncharted isle with a panda pirate on it, that you'll never be able to find again.
 

Grave_sl

shitlord
47
0
That sort of thing is exactly what I mean though. "That would be epic" is the kind of stuff in design meetings that will sink this thing. They can't afford epic. Their "that would be epic" vision needs to be nothing more than "let's see if we can actually make a dungeon as good as Sebilis" or "can we actually make itemization that doesn't suck." There isn't room for pie in the sky ideas. This isn't the place to go wild. Just my opinion.

Edit: That city of ships concept art is a good example. Yeah, Brad, that shit looks cool. It's also a ton of unique assets and time to make a grand space for people to sell their junk. You don't need it yet. You could use that time instead making smaller, flavorful home bases for races or whatever where clever use of smaller assets, music, and character give a sense of belonging like EQ1's Rivervale. That wasn't an "impressive" place but I'd rather have that to start with. Make the city of ships your underwater expansion hub. :p