Pan'Theon: Rise' of th'e Fal'Len - #1 Thread in MMO

Flobee

Flobee

Vyemm Raider
2,610
3,003
Tuco_sl said:
Even with how this has gone I feel like Brad et all could work their asses off in the next week, create a substantial design document, publish it and earn back the favor of our demographic.

And if it fails I still think he could come back in a few months to a year with more demonstrable content and successfully fund a kickstarter.
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This. I threw in $45 because I WANT this game to be "the one" so to speak. Realistically however it doesn't look that way. I have no intention of piling on to what has already been said about the KS, others have said it better than I can. At the end of the day, I have been unable to get friends excited about this. These same friends have played multiple MMO's with me including EQ, they just don't necessarily know who Brad is. The campaign should have merit to stand on its own, unfortunately right now its standing on prior reputation.
 
Lithose

Lithose

Buzzfeed Editor
25,946
113,035
Muligan_sl said:
This what I have been saying since Camelot Unchained showed up on KS'd and now with Pantheon. How did Jacobs do it? As I said in an earlier post, how do people not remember his social antics at the end of his time at WAR? If I remember correctly, even if it is a bunch of DAOC backers and maybe he beat Brad to the "old school" punch, this guy just doesn't have the name or following bring in what he did...

Honestly, considering today hindsight, I would probably (as of today) have backed CU over Pantheon but i'm trying to be loyal to Brad and his vision.
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Ask yourself if any current MMORPG has delivered a long-lasting RvR experience. Would you like to help create that kind of experience? Our backers will be part of the creation process right from the beginning with our private forums andaccess to the development team. What we can do together over the next few years will set CSE and this project apart. Other developers talk about how much they embrace the community (and some truly do) but Mark has been doing this for almost 30 years, without fail. He hasn't been afraid to talk with the players and listen to their feedback, but he is also willing to say no. That approach is something everybody at CSE willingly signs up for when it comes to communicating with our backers in order to make this game a success.

That is from the CU KS.

Engagement. Look at his language, in fact, look at the full KS language. He brought people in and directed their conversations--he made sure the people who put money in, were focused on the game they wanted. Why? Because they are the ones who are going to sell it to other people. He treated the campaign like a social one--he released a ton of information and each new update had real, tangible information that he could get his people into the forums to talk about and direct conversation.

He set his whole experience up to perpetuate word of mouth.

Brad made the choice not to have a private forum--because it would take too many resources to run. Well, that's a strategic choice, fine--but he needed to double down and make sure the information flowed back and forth between the developers and backers throughout a bunch of forums then. And that just hasn't happened. Again, they are treating KS like a standard AD campaign, Jacobs didn't. Jacobs treated it like a grass roots political process, where he got people involved and directed their interests--that's how you run a social media campaign.

Shroud of the Avatar campaign (Multi Million).

You can become a registered user on ourhttps://www.shroudoftheavatar.com/, where you will have a chance to add your voice to one of the manyCommunity led discussions about Shroud of the Avatar.LORD BRITISH wants to hear your ideas and suggestions, so be sure to sign up and start posting!

And if you contribute to our Kickstarter at the Developer level or above, we will bring you into the inner design circle. In addition to getting general design ideas from you, you will have the chance to lend a voice on even the more contentious issues involved in game design. Some examples would be: PVP - Where, when and under what conditions? Persistent Housing - How can we make a housing market that creates opportunity and engaging gameplay? These are just a few of the design ideas we will be discussing in our Developer Roundtable discussions.
 
C

Crowing

196
1
Tuco_sl said:
Even with how this has gone I feel like Brad et all could work their asses off in the next week, create a substantial design document, publish it and earn back the favor of our demographic.

And if it fails I still think he could come back in a few months to a year with more demonstrable content and successfully fund a kickstarter.
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I feel like at this point though if funding fails it would be near career suicide for Brad. While I want this game to happen based on what little has been said about what they want to strive for, his history coupled with the shoddy Kickstarter and lack of any real meat and potatoes about the game is a clear indication that the mismanagement trend continues. It's almost insulting that they are targeting a "niche" audience (i.e. people like most of the posters on these boards) and then have the audacity to blow smoke up our asses with generic information/design.

This game already has a negative stigma attached to it in the eyes of a lot of classic MMO players due to the Vanguard: Saga of Brown incident just by having Brads name attached to it, the last thing it needs is the total lack of direction being shown, even if it is a VERY early stage of development.
 
T

Trathos_sl

shitlord
62
0
For those bitching and complaining about the kickstarter, your right. Even though I support the game, I have through the entire process acknowledged the flaws, (even though I feel like some people are just complaining for the sake of complaining, but that's another matter). Some people have valid complaints, and have offered some reasonable suggestions. There are a ton here, however, who continue to mention the same things over, and over, and over, and over again...."They should have done *this* before they started the kickstarter....seriously, how many times are you going to bring this up? Shoulda Coulda Woulda (Yeah I said it), fact remains, you cannot change the past (so why the hell do you keep bringing it up?!) Now as for the future, (you can indeed learn from the past, if that's the goal your trying to get at, then I agree). If you do actually want to see the game made, then stop nagging about every little damn thing, and post constructively what would be a good way to fix it (and not just for the sake of "I've been wronged!!!! God have Pity on me!!!"). As for the whole, pull the kickstarter down and redo it, do you guys honestly think that would be a good idea at this point? You've already mentioned the past of brad and such, and by pulling down the kickstarter, with you guys already nagging on it as is, wouldn't you be like..."well...his kickstarter has failed...Brad fails again!!!". Would you honestly (And I mean actually Honestly), support it if in fact they pulled it down to redo it. The same question would be asked if you'd support it if the backing fails/they redo it, and put it up there, or is your confidence completely shot at this point? Curious to hear your responses. Discuss.
 
Z

Zaven_sl

shitlord
43
0
Trathos_sl said:
For those bitching and complaining about the kickstarter, your right. Even though I support the game, I have through the entire process acknowledged the flaws, (even though I feel like some people are just complaining for the sake of complaining, but that's another matter). Some people have valid complaints, and have offered some reasonable suggestions. There are a ton here, however, who continue to mention the same things over, and over, and over, and over again...."They should have done *this* before they started the kickstarter....seriously, how many times are you going to bring this up? Shoulda Coulda Woulda (Yeah I said it), fact remains, you cannot change the past (so why the hell do you keep bringing it up?!) Now as for the future, (you can indeed learn from the past, if that's the goal your trying to get at, then I agree). If you do actually want to see the game made, then stop nagging about every little damn thing, and post constructively what would be a good way to fix it (and not just for the sake of "I've been wronged!!!! God have Pity on me!!!"). As for the whole, pull the kickstarter down and redo it, do you guys honestly think that would be a good idea at this point? You've already mentioned the past of brad and such, and by pulling down the kickstarter, with you guys already nagging on it as is, wouldn't you be like..."well...his kickstarter has failed...Brad fails again!!!". Would you honestly (And I mean actually Honestly), support it if in fact they pulled it down to redo it. The same question would be asked if you'd support it if the backing fails/they redo it, and put it up there, or is your confidence completely shot at this point? Curious to hear your responses. Discuss.
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Well said. Unfortunately this forum has many trolls that do nothing but spew garbage and complain about everything. The mods here do nothing about it and let them shit up every thread they want to.
 
D

Dulldain_sl

shitlord
210
0
Lithose_sl said:
Ask yourself if any current MMORPG has delivered a long-lasting RvR experience. Would you like to help create that kind of experience? Our backers will be part of the creation process right from the beginning with our private forums andaccess to the development team. What we can do together over the next few years will set CSE and this project apart. Other developers talk about how much they embrace the community (and some truly do) but Mark has been doing this for almost 30 years, without fail. He hasn?t been afraid to talk with the players and listen to their feedback, but he is also willing to say no. That approach is something everybody at CSE willingly signs up for when it comes to communicating with our backers in order to make this game a success.

That is from the CU KS.

Engagement. Look at his language, in fact, look at the full KS language. He brought people in and directed their conversations--he made sure the people who put money in, were focused on the game they wanted. Why? Because they are the ones who are going to sell it to other people. He treated the campaign like a social one--he released a ton of information and each new update had real, tangible information that he could get his people into the forums to talk about and direct conversation.

He set his whole experience up to perpetuate word of mouth.

Brad made the choice not to have a private forum--because it would take too many resources to run. Well, that's a strategic choice, fine--but he needed to double down and make sure the information flowed back and forth between the developers and backers throughout a bunch of forums then. And that just hasn't happened. Again, they are treating KS like a standard AD campaign, Jacobs didn't. Jacobs treated it like a grass roots political process, where he got people involved and directed their interests--that's how you run a social media campaign.

Shroud of the Avatar campaign (Multi Million).

You can become a registered user on ourhttps://www.shroudoftheavatar.com/, where you will have a chance to add your voice to one of the manyCommunity led discussions about Shroud of the Avatar.LORD BRITISH wants to hear your ideas and suggestions, so be sure to sign up and start posting!

And if you contribute to our Kickstarter at the Developer level or above, we will bring you into the inner design circle. In addition to getting general design ideas from you, you will have the chance to lend a voice on even the more contentious issues involved in game design. Some examples would be: PVP ? Where, when and under what conditions? Persistent Housing ? How can we make a housing market that creates opportunity and engaging gameplay? These are just a few of the design ideas we will be discussing in our Developer Roundtable discussions.
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Not only did they give lip service to these themes that actually followed through. In Avatar they are having contests to create player made cities, encounters, and such that will be included in the game. They are using their backers as a development resource. I didnt back either but they are doing it right.
 
Jimbolini

Jimbolini

Semi-pro Monopoly player
2,565
955
bayr_sl said:
This is supposed to be a classic MMO. It should be Keaton or nothing, not this Christian Bale bullshit
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Lewis Wilson or nothing !

rrr_img_57491.jpg
 
DickTrickle

DickTrickle

Definitely NOT Furor Planedefiler
12,965
14,865
I think turn of events has at least further shown how full of shit Utnayan can be. There's no way there's some secret silent deal with Smedley. No way Smed decides to bankroll something where the sum total of work done and forethought shown is about ten minutes.
 
T

Trathos_sl

shitlord
62
0
Dahkoht_sl said:
/popcorn

This should be amusing.
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C'mon man...you've gotta give me more than that lol. I know at first you actually did give a shit and really wanted the game...and maybe it's rubbed you completely the wrong way with the way this thing has went...but I'd like to think you aren't just trolling at this point.
 
Convo

Convo

Ahn'Qiraj Raider
8,761
613
Grave_sl said:
This just randomly appeared.



No Warrior? wut.
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Maybe Crusader? Again, we will have to wait to find out the class system and all it's components to figure this shit out.. I hope this is the last week we are waiting on media outlets..:-(

Also, they need to review the stuff before it post. If it's not adding enough detail, they need to do an immediate followup on their site. At this point, the game articles can't be leaving us with more questions than answers.
 
DickTrickle

DickTrickle

Definitely NOT Furor Planedefiler
12,965
14,865
Actually, if there's no Warrior that actually sounds like a good idea. EQ always suffered from the hybrid tanks being second class tanks. I'm guess both Batman and Crusader/Paladin will be equally useful as tanks. Also, if something like a trinity will still exist, it's better having two classes share the best than just one. Not a bad call.
 
L

LadyVex_sl

shitlord
868
0
Trathos_sl said:
For those bitching and complaining about the kickstarter, your right. Even though I support the game, I have through the entire process acknowledged the flaws, (even though I feel like some people are just complaining for the sake of complaining, but that's another matter). Some people have valid complaints, and have offered some reasonable suggestions. There are a ton here, however, who continue to mention the same things over, and over, and over, and over again...."They should have done *this* before they started the kickstarter....seriously, how many times are you going to bring this up? Shoulda Coulda Woulda (Yeah I said it), fact remains, you cannot change the past (so why the hell do you keep bringing it up?!) Now as for the future, (you can indeed learn from the past, if that's the goal your trying to get at, then I agree). If you do actually want to see the game made, then stop nagging about every little damn thing, and post constructively what would be a good way to fix it (and not just for the sake of "I've been wronged!!!! God have Pity on me!!!"). As for the whole, pull the kickstarter down and redo it, do you guys honestly think that would be a good idea at this point? You've already mentioned the past of brad and such, and by pulling down the kickstarter, with you guys already nagging on it as is, wouldn't you be like..."well...his kickstarter has failed...Brad fails again!!!". Would you honestly (And I mean actually Honestly), support it if in fact they pulled it down to redo it. The same question would be asked if you'd support it if the backing fails/they redo it, and put it up there, or is your confidence completely shot at this point? Curious to hear your responses. Discuss.
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It's not anyone's job on this forum to fix their shit for them, this is the issue.

The project already had a negative connotation for most going into it; the past is not that god damn long ago, especially when we're considering it's a niche MMO and Vanguard is still fresh in the minds of most people, because it wasthat type of mmo, and they're trying to make another.

I'm sure people are complaining to complain - but others have real, legitimate issues. And even if those issues are specific to the KS, they are issues surrounding Pantheon thatneeded to be acknowledged and taken care ofprior to the launch of this particular KS.

I didn't support it before, and if they took it down and restarted it, I wouldn't support it then. When you walk into a situation anywhere where you are going to have to beg for funding, you go into there, balls out, full of confidence and ideas and a good layout and you get shit done. None of that happened, none of that probably will happen.

Yes, people are mentioning things over and over again, because nothing is being done. Because when shit goes belly up, the first thing MMO players do is go all scorned wife on shit and start bringing shit up you did 10 years ago. "Oh, you didn't pick up the dozen eggs I asked you to from the store? Well remember in fucking '97 when it snowed and I asked you to shovel the sidewalk to my car and you didn't and I fell and bruised my hip? THIS IS JUST LIKE THAT, YOU DON'T LOVE ME, I KNEW IT."

Stop defending this, stop putting the blame onto the funders, the non funders, the would be players, the never-would-be players. Bring something tangible to the table, something that looks more professional than a fucking story for a 5th grade project. "And then the best class of all...WOULD BE THE DARK KNIGHT. Because Batman is cool."

People on this forum are just nice enough, and just smart enough, and just creative enough, and hell, maybe delusional enough, to offer ideas, and fixes, and better teirs and yada yada yada. Wasn't it Draegan who came in here and had an entire layout that was eons better than what we got for that KS in like 5 minutes? Didn't Utnayen have an infinitely better plan for what should have happened?

Yea, we can do. But we shouldn't have to. People are already forking over shit tons of money, so now, people should do that, THEN they should tell the people who are making the game for which they are paying for, how they can fix their own shit?

In the industry, they willPAY YOU TO DO THAT.

Sorry, but people aren't getting my money and my fucking project management skills based on a pipe dream.
 
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