Pan'Theon: Rise' of th'e Fal'Len - #1 Thread in MMO

popsicledeath_sl said:

Exactly.

This is how Brad often fucks up. It's how he did it in Vanguard. He's doing it now. He basically talks about things that are planned like they're completed, then when people get hyped and want to see the goods, he has to either stall, lie, or whip some terrible shit together at the last minute.

I'm pretty sure this project would be on the way to be easily funded if he'd not tried to sell a game that didn't exist, and instead just sold the truth, that they want to make a game, have ideas and a plan, but need help getting the ball rolling. People will ask about the game, because that's what's exciting, and he could just tell us his PLANS for the game and IDEAS and just be honest that that's all it is at this point, and then re-fucking-focus attention to the fact the KS is to get the studio up and running, buy equipment, hire on more employees.

Instead, he got excited by his own hype, started selling a game that doesn't exist, didn't have the goods to back up his talking points, and tried to shit them out last minute. Instead of just going with the honest, direct approach: I'm Brad McQuaid and I want to make the kind of game you want to play, and will talk about some of my ideas and plans, but right now I need your help getting the studio set up.

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repost this gold on pjp

You have to also consider how saturated the MMO market is at this time. This could be just more noise to people, especially considered how little information is actually available. People are either sick of hearing of something else on the horizon or distant future. People could also be sold on another MMO.

We could list active and upcoming MMO's that have already made it to mainstream gaming sites and see how easily it could be lost in the mix.

I am so disappointed with this Kickstarter since it honestly doesn't show ANYTHING. Most Game Projects from kickstarter that I have backed were of semi-functional game. The game was already there and all the information was well presented. You know exactly what's there and based on how successful the kickstarter is you probably get more (stretch goals). But Brad's Pantheon project is so incomplete and so immature I have no clue how they decided to launch their kickstarter with such a state.

I spread the news to all my friends who loved EQ (and everyone of them backed the project) but I feel like a hypocrite because I didn't back this project (yet). Not because I don't believe in this kind of game but because the situation is so obvious that this project doesn't sound promising from a technical point of view. I really highly doubt Brad's team capability in delivering this; they will spend three-years developing this project on a $800,000 initial budget?

Oh and wasn't the "all star" thing one of the reasons Brad mentioned on how/why his Vanguard project failed? (in his post mortem blog entries) yet he claims that he has an "all-star" team, again?

If somehow Brad manage to convince me that there WILL be a game released in three years I would spend a minimum of $250 on it but I really have no faith judging from how the kickstarter campaign is handled.

Vandyn_sl said:

That's still a lot of assumptions. Who's to say everyone who has signed up on the forums:

a) still plays P99
b) want an EQ clone that's not Everquest
c) still want that type of game anyway (perhaps moved on to other games)
d) have faith that Brad will deliver after the Vanguard debacle.

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Of course its a lot of assumptions. I'm no polling expert and I have done no data mining to find at least a semi-accurate percentage of people who would consider investing in the game. But I do know I have been active in the MMO community since 2002 and there has always been lots of interest in the real Everquest 2(not SOE's). Every time a thread starts discussing ideas and concepts for that "game we all want" it blows the fuck up into a mega thread. So the interest is there I'm just not sure how to reach them all. (Which thinking about it something Brad should have done prior to launching this kickstarter, but I digress).

mkopec_sl said:

Anyone remember the Caravans that Vanguard was supposed to have?

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I think Archeage is attempting to do this... Which brings up another point. As much disappointment I have in a long list of MMO's, each one of them has done something right or progressed the industry. Archeage for example, in my opinion has really pushed the visual and sound of MMO's (FFXIV did as well). People would argue TERA did this for combat. You can pick other games and their concepts/mechanics, and i'm not even saying i'm wanting any of that in Pantheon but, I do need a bit more than just Brad saying, "It's old school, it's me, give me money."

I'm pretty forgiving but he does have to remember, he's in a competitive market and i'm not going to throw my money (regardless if its a pledge or to purchase the game 3 years from now) if there's no selling point.

I think we all agree they underestimated what it would take to get support for this game. It's very obvious and now they are stuck scrambling. Rightfully so.. You can't expect handouts, you gotta work for it. This is probably the best thing that can happen to them. Show us how bad you want to make this game. If the drive is there, we might just get something good out of it.. Not to pile it on, and I'm surprised nobody has brought this up, but they have 3 artist on the team and we have no art.. WTF is going on? It's little things like no art, that are killing them!

I guess the last 2 weeks of the KS will make or break it. By then they should have delivered enough info to get a good overview of the proposed game. Then do another round of media stuff telling people of the revamped KS-site etc... then we will see what happens. I am not really hopeful at this point, but if it will then generate decent interest and finish at maybe 650-700k it would not be too bad and there may be a future for Pantheon....

popsicledeath_sl said:

Exactly.

This is how Brad often fucks up. It's how he did it in Vanguard. He's doing it now. He basically talks about things that are planned like they're completed, then when people get hyped and want to see the goods, he has to either stall, lie, or whip some terrible shit together at the last minute.

I'm pretty sure this project would be on the way to be easily funded if he'd not tried to sell a game that didn't exist, and instead just sold the truth, that they want to make a game, have ideas and a plan, but need help getting the ball rolling. People will ask about the game, because that's what's exciting, and he could just tell us his PLANS for the game and IDEAS and just be honest that that's all it is at this point, and then re-fucking-focus attention to the fact the KS is to get the studio up and running, buy equipment, hire on more employees.

Instead, he got excited by his own hype, started selling a game that doesn't exist, didn't have the goods to back up his talking points, and tried to shit them out last minute. Instead of just going with the honest, direct approach: I'm Brad McQuaid and I want to make the kind of game you want to play, and will talk about some of my ideas and plans, but right now I need your help getting the studio set up.

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Yes. People that were cheerleading LOUDLY at first, figured out there was nothing but ideas and concepts and felt lied to. So it dampened the enthusiasm, to say the least.
Whereas I don't think people would have had a problem at all supporting his concepts and ideas if that's what they KNEW they were supporting.
It's like your wife telling you she's cool with you going to hookers for BJs, but you do it behind her back and lie about it anyway and then she finds out and is like "WTF? I told you I was cool with that. Why would you lie, asshole?!". And you're all "THIS IS WHY! I KNEW YOU'D BE MAD! SEE?! I was right!!".
We aren't mad that it's just concepts and ideas. It's the feeling misled thing...

gogojira_sl said:

Maybe I should come up with a special gold plate for PJP's Rerolled visitors. It's like the developer one except it's going to read "Probably a Dick." It'll be a term of endearment, wear it with pride!

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Shit show warning would be cool!

gogojira_sl said:

Maybe I should come up with a special gold plate for PJP's Rerolled visitors. It's like the developer one except it's going to read "Probably a Dick." It'll be a term of endearment, wear it with pride!

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do it

I'm actually getting more hopeful as we go along.

Tauro_sl said:

I guess the last 2 weeks of the KS will make or break it. By then they should have delivered enough info to get a good overview of the proposed game. Then do another round of media stuff telling people of the revamped KS-site etc... then we will see what happens. I am not really hopeful at this point, but if it will then generate decent interest and finish at maybe 650-700k it would not be too bad and there may be a future for Pantheon....

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If it finishes at that level, they don't get a cent, though, so I'm not sure how that shows there would be a future.