Pan'Theon: Rise' of th'e Fal'Len - #1 Thread in MMO

Yeah, it's making me sad thinking about it. I even chatted to Brad himself a little in-game when he was on the server, I thought that was cool.

I only got to do one actual dungeon run. I love non-instanced shit, and back to non-linear dungeons. But without people, all that content is worthless.

As far as gear restrictions - that was a big turn off to me. It's the same model SOE uses on it's other F2P stuff too though. I really can't stand a F2P system that has you do a quest, get rewarded gear, but you can't equip it. I guess I'd go the potion route, or sub, but LOTRO (as an example) was such a much better system. Pay for content (zones / dungeons / etc), but get everything that content offers as part of it. I spent a lot money on LOTRO because of how well it was done, compared to Vanguard, that got zero dollars.

I still keep wanting to go back to VG and give it another whirl "someday". I'm really surprised the game is still going.

mkopec_sl said:

Maybe what this genre needs is a little return to the dark ages. Because where its seeming to go these days, there is not really a light at the end of the tunnel. If you know what im saying (lobby gaming). Is this guy the one to do it? Who knows? He did have some good ideas in Vanguard. Great class dsign, great world design, but all wrapped up in a layer of shit that took 5 yrs to fix.

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i think you're exactly right. get back to the DnD roots. make leveling matter, make loot matter, make classes matter, make decisions in the game matter, and most importantly of all, make community matter.

Utnayan_sl said:

True. I guess we will see what happens. Maybe you are right. We need a kindle back to the yesteryear where everything isn't one globbed up casual uninspired nightmare and we get back to true D&D roots/difficulty.

After all, Dark Souls and Demons' Souls is successful. And cherished.

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Brad has made some pretty spot on comments in regards to the industry. The small budget, niche approach is the future and that's what he's doing. Relic or not I'm glad he is noticing the need. He's going to borrow a lot from the EQN tech which is great. If he can use voxel's wisely(I don't mean destroying the world for the sake of it), the storybrick stuff and put out a class system that rivals EQ and VG he will have his niche. I think he was always good at the PvE experience, so I hope he sticks to his strengths. I know people are cautious here but I don't see him repeating past mistakes. The guy dedicated a blog to them heh.. I expect him to play to his strengths and not over reach. He wants to raise his name back to a higher level not have shit on more. Time will tell but I'm betting we get a solid game this time around

Niche is fine. But for this game to survive Brad has to:

-Allow for solo play by all classes (this was possible in VG, but not in EQ). VG had the right mix, best stuff was in dungeons requiring groups, but you could solo grind two or three dots when nobody was on (this is one of the reasons VG is still going because of the solo content).

-Think small. Preferably Zoned instead of seemless. Less races than EQ/VG. Etc.

-Use VG combat (OT/DT) it was a drastic improvement over EQ, especially for healers.

-Interesting bosses and endgame combat. Another thing that killed VG, many bosses were boring and the lack of post-40 game meant hardcore people abandoned it by the end of March.

Well, a group of SOE employees had proposed a design doc to Smedley for a niche MMO, more akin to the original EQ, but with current day conveniences, while still conforming to the "vision" that was the driving force behind many of the decisions that created the original game we all loved. Maybe this is the result of Smedley declining and Brad deciding to branch out on his own. Or, it could be Smedley saying yes, but not publicly backing it as that would mean explaining to the higher ups in Sony why he was developing competing products at the same time. I think it may be a mix of both as Smedley likes the idea, but realizes he cannot approve something like so he tells Brad to go do it on his own, but with support from SoE, in terms of tech and perhaps some funding later down the line.

Hmerly_sl said:

Well, a group of SOE employees had proposed a design doc to Smedley for a niche MMO, more akin to the original EQ, but with current day conveniences, while still conforming to the "vision" that was the driving force behind many of the decisions that created the original game we all loved. Maybe this is the result of Smedley declining and Brad deciding to branch out on his own. Or, it could be Smedley saying yes, but not publicly backing it as that would mean explaining to the higher ups in Sony why he was developing competing products at the same time. I think it may be a mix of both as Smedley likes the idea, but realizes he cannot approve something like so he tells Brad to go do it on his own, but with support from SoE, in terms of tech and perhaps some funding later down the line.

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What do you mean by 'current day conveniences'?

Arden_sl said:

What do you mean by 'current day conveniences'?

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If I had to guess, I'd say stuff like no corpse runs, easier traveling, no money weight, probably something like LFG tools to make partying easier (with teleporting to the dungeon), etc.

Bruman_sl said:

If I had to guess, I'd say stuff like no corpse runs, easier traveling, no money weight, probably something like LFG tools to make partying easier (with teleporting to the dungeon), etc.

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In other words, another dungeon lobby. I hope Brad is not that fucking stupid.

Fish1_sl said:

[...]So it's very generous, but again, far too late.

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it would have ended up like that regardless.

Here's how it's going to go down:

1. Brad & Smed want EQ3, but since it's a niche game it won't be a blockbuster. Smed wants proof
2. Brad "leaves" SOE to begin prototyping EQ3-like engine
3. Brad's "new company" creates a Kickstarter, proclaiming a return to hardcore MMOs, like original EQ
4. Brad & Smed observe success/failure of Kickstarter campaign
5. If Kickstarter fails, EQ3 is no-go (or on hold). If Kickstarter succeeds, Brad & team continue development
6. Game continues development until Kickstarter funds run dry
7. Game needs more funding to proceed. Brad explains to Kickstarter community that SOE will be publishing the game, to aid in completion
8. SOE "buys" EQ3 prototype and brings it into the EQ franchise to finish completion
9. EQ3 is released under SOE

Result: SOE is able to feel out community reaction to a real EQ3 without taking the financial plunge, AND receive money to help fund it's development. At any point, they are able to withdraw with no loss.

That's exactly what I was thinking.

Btw..I think brad was laid off from SoE..I'm assuming he had a design doc ready and Smed gave him the blessing.

Will we be theory crafting this thread to 1k pages like the EQN one?

I would expect a PVE game using tech from EQN.

Quaid_sl said:

In other words, another dungeon lobby. I hope Brad is not that fucking stupid.

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lol, i was thinking the exact same thing. the current day conveniences is exactly what's wrong with modern MMO's. a return to an EQ type MMO would be pretty much the opposite of everything that's currently being done. longer, more dangerous traveling, corpse runs, death penalty, weight restrictions etc... is what is needed to make a new game in the same mold of EQ.

etchazz_sl said:

lol, i was thinking the exact same thing. the current day conveniences is exactly what's wrong with modern MMO's. a return to an EQ type MMO would be pretty much the opposite of everything that's currently being done. longer, more dangerous traveling, corpse runs, death penalty, weight restrictions etc... is what is needed to make a new game in the same mold of EQ.

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Agreed. At this point it's not even about creating a game similar to EQ, IT's about making a game different than WoW+clones.

Why would I play your low budget WoW clone game when I could just play WoW?

Goddamnit, as if we didn't have enough MMO in-progress theory crafting threads already...

*watches the crowd begin to set out lawn chairs and camping equipment*

Helldiver_sl said:

Goddamnit, as if we didn't have enough MMO in-progress theory crafting threads already...

*watches the crowd begin to set out lawn chairs and camping equipment*

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Ya... Unfortunately I think this one might be too little too late.

I am (very) optimistic about EQN. I'm gonna upgrade my rig to the max for Titanfall release in 2014, and then if EQN doesn't 'deliver' I think I may be done with PC gaming all together.