Pan'Theon: Rise' of th'e Fal'Len - #1 Thread in MMO

Dahkoht_sl · Jan 31, 2014

gogojira_sl said:
I've seen some impressive stuff in the past but I always forget if it's multiplayer or not. Judging by your post it is, so all the more reason to buy into it.

Can anyone give the 101 in how massive it is ? Persistent etc ? I've seen it explained in 10 different ways and never does clear it up. Only reason I didnt get in on it was it seemed very pseudo single/multiplayer and not an mmo.

Not knocking it if it's not , just not my thing is all.

Dahkoht_sl · Jan 31, 2014

For me personally Brad , the world takes precedence over convenience. In most every case.

If you've got to have teleportation in , make it expensive and timed for anything that people can use solo on their own.

Let the wizards and druids (using EQ example) classes have a role that makes other classes depend on them.

LFG to match folks up , but not to teleport them together to the dungeon.

And I'm a 40+ dad with a career saying it's fine with me for it to take a while to travel and get around.I want it to take a while to see everything and level and so on. I want the world with a game inside it , not a game with a pseudo world.

gogojira_sl · Jan 31, 2014

A little preoccupied at the moment but I'm not a fan of the "port to group" function. Maybe I'm a crazy person, but I feel like that sort of defies the logic that I feel like Pantheon, or MMOs based on old school mentalities, are operating under.

Oloh_sl · Jan 31, 2014

Dumar_sl said:
I blow tons of cash too.

But blow it on this KS, not collector editions of games that do nothing but perpetuate the absolute garbage practices and games this industry produces and has produced for the last decade. Don't give companies like EA money - ever.

K. You keep white knighting! Don't let the evil video game developers keep oppress you. I'll be spending $75 on a collectors edition that, even for the worst MMO I have played, gets me 80 hours of entertainment and looks cool on my bookshelf.

Even if Pantheon (or any other MMO) doesn't live up to my expectations, its like, what a couple to few hundred dollars to be a part of something fun and special. Honestly, I've already gotten my money's worth reading 15,000 posts on this topic, following the Kickstarter and Kicktraq and having lunch with friends I haven't connected with in a while talking about what the game could be, will be or should be. Finally, if all that isn't enough, I'll be playing with my kids and making fun of them because dad will always be better than them in video games, as evidenced by their feeble capeless newbie gear.

Money well spent from my perspective, but to each his own.

Jait · Jan 31, 2014

Aradune_sl said:
Hey guys, there's a design idea and issue that we're debating, and we'd really like your feedback.

Ok, so Pantheon is about a huge, interesting open world to explore. We don't want people teleporting all over the place, missing out on content and the grandeur of Terminus.

So far we've said that there will be some opportunities to teleport to some locations as long as you've travelled there before without teleporting. Kind of like the Velious teleports.

We've also said that if you're at the entrance to a dungeon, a group within that dungeon can teleport you to them (likely a spell shared by some classes).

But from a design and philosophical standpoint, huge open world to explore and teleports/quick travel seem mutually exclusive to many who are interested in Pantheon.

So what about an elaborate LFG system? A dungeon finder? Someway to quickly travel to adventure areas where other people have already gathered and are trying to form groups?

it's anti-exploration, but it's pro-grouping. And exploration and grouping are both two major components of what makes Pantheon the game we're so excited to be working on.

So how can we strike a balance here? How do we offer game mechanics that are focused on people finding groups, making friends, eventually guilds, etc., but not shrink the world by allowing people to port all over the place? Where do we draw a line in the sand? Is finding groups and making friends more important or less important than a vast open world to explore, where taking the time to travel to an exotic and distant location gives you a great sense of accomplishment?

Pantheon already has a strong Vision(TM) behind it. We are wrapping up the high level design documents. The team is ideologically on the same page and agree with our goals and tenets. With probably one exception, the one I'm bringing up here. We go back and forth on it. Heck, I can argue either side just as convincingly.

So what do you guys think? Where is the balance? What tenet takes priority over the other?

When I said the community would be more involved with Pantheon than any of the other games we've worked on, I meant it. I love doing interviews and chats and videos. I really enjoy answering future players' questions. But this issue is turning out to be a tough one and we could really use your help and feedback.

Thanks in advance!

Don't let people port to dungeons. Period.A rez is the only port, and that's because "you've been there once".

Cazic-Thule for example was the divider between casual and hardcore for many players in early EQ largely because of these reasons (and it's brilliant design). First you had to find it which required communication, being social, having friends, etc... Then you had to get there which was a whole 'nother picnic. Then having to run your ass back 47 times in one evening, and each time having to either form a new group at the entrance or train your party when it was very briefly clear to a spot made it one of the best experiences for your "oldschool" MMO players.

FFS, do not give people "summons" to dungeons if you're trying to keep that spirit.

Tearofsoul · Jan 31, 2014

Aradune_sl said:
Hey guys, there's a design idea and issue that we're debating, and we'd really like your feedback.

Ok, so Pantheon is about a huge, interesting open world to explore. We don't want people teleporting all over the place, missing out on content and the grandeur of Terminus.

So far we've said that there will be some opportunities to teleport to some locations as long as you've travelled there before without teleporting. Kind of like the Velious teleports.

We've also said that if you're at the entrance to a dungeon, a group within that dungeon can teleport you to them (likely a spell shared by some classes).

But from a design and philosophical standpoint, huge open world to explore and teleports/quick travel seem mutually exclusive to many who are interested in Pantheon.

So what about an elaborate LFG system? A dungeon finder? Someway to quickly travel to adventure areas where other people have already gathered and are trying to form groups?

it's anti-exploration, but it's pro-grouping. And exploration and grouping are both two major components of what makes Pantheon the game we're so excited to be working on.

So how can we strike a balance here? How do we offer game mechanics that are focused on people finding groups, making friends, eventually guilds, etc., but not shrink the world by allowing people to port all over the place? Where do we draw a line in the sand? Is finding groups and making friends more important or less important than a vast open world to explore, where taking the time to travel to an exotic and distant location gives you a great sense of accomplishment?

Pantheon already has a strong Vision(TM) behind it. We are wrapping up the high level design documents. The team is ideologically on the same page and agree with our goals and tenets. With probably one exception, the one I'm bringing up here. We go back and forth on it. Heck, I can argue either side just as convincingly.

So what do you guys think? Where is the balance? What tenet takes priority over the other?

When I said the community would be more involved with Pantheon than any of the other games we've worked on, I meant it. I love doing interviews and chats and videos. I really enjoy answering future players' questions. But this issue is turning out to be a tough one and we could really use your help and feedback.

Thanks in advance!

LFG system is anti-social. People actually do NOT get to know each other. That's right, individual player is more like a number within the LFG system.

Khane · Jan 31, 2014

Let's face it, making it easier to get to your group is not in any way, shape or form anti-exploratory. If you want, make it so you have to physically travel to the dungeon before you can get summoned there by a group but don't require that everyone have to travel there every time.

People who pretend that EQ's model was good are out of touch. All we did as players was hug zone walls and beg for a SoW. We didn't see shit while running through the zones to get to our destination. The only thing you lose is the sense of fear travelling through high level connecting zones(which there is a good argument for, because that does actually matter and is part of a good gaming experience). But we can even argue that wasn't all that dangerous even in EQ because you rarely ran into anything while hugging the walls.

Require a majority of the group to have traveled to the dungeon, but once there allow them to be able to summon replacements directly to the group. This way the group has a better chance of staying in the dungeon and socializing in the dungeon than simply just leaving because nobody can be bothered to wait for the new guy to hoof it over to them.

If you make it a pain in the ass to get to the content (every single time) the out of the way zones/dungeons are going to remain empty unless you purposefully make them leaps and bounds more interesting with significantly better rewards than the less out of the way content.

Not having a LFG function (even if it's as simple as adding a LFG tag ala EQ) is absolutely unforgivable. If players have to travel to specific dungeons just to ask for a group they are going to not be experiencing the other content your game has to offer and also just try to find the dungeon that has the best chance of finding a group rather than trying to just find a group in general. Players will feel forced to consume content they may actually dislike just because it's a means to an end (finding a group to level). Once again you're going to have players gravitating towards specific dungeons and your other dungeons will be all but empty. Now THAT is anti-exploratory.

Jait · Jan 31, 2014

Khane_sl said:
Let's face it, flying somewhere in a plane doesn't mean you can't see everything a person walking can

Derp.

Graye_sl · Jan 31, 2014

I can think of few occasions where a group does not have forewarning of needing a replacement.

1.) Asshats
2.) LD
3.) RL emergency
4.) /ragequitting Asshats

If there is a LFG tool, like Vanguard, that should be more than ample "assistance". Groups can put up "LFM" (Class type). Players can put up "LFG" (Dungeon list).

Fucking tit suckers these days that can't do something on their own.... shit.

Tearofsoul · Jan 31, 2014

One example: I recognize individual player if he/she keeps looking for group through zone chat in EQ. I have no memory individual player I grouped with using LFG system in other MMOs.

Oloh_sl · Jan 31, 2014

Aradune_sl said:
So what do you guys think? Where is the balance? What tenet takes priority over the other?

For the type of game Pantheon is being set up to be, I would leverage another core principle to balance the two tenets. Namely, class specialization and interdependence. I would give one category of classes the ability to streamline travel time to specific objectives, such as dungeons or raids. A good example from existing games is the WoW warlock's summoning portal. He summons the portal, 2 other players click it and they can bring in 2 other players. Promotes class interdependence and provides a convenience. Maybe a Mage can group teleport his group to certain locations near the dungeon, or a druid/ranger can call down a large bird to give a player a taxi ride to his party.

I think that a robust LFG (even one that can sort by dungeon...ie a "dungeon finder") system is a must in any modern MMO, and I don't see any reason to that you should NOT have one. That said, the travel aspect of it is not mandatory and shouldn't be included. Reserve that convenience, instead to further promote class interdependence.

tad10 · Jan 31, 2014

High level wizards can cast a port spell on a predetermined town artifact. Allowing port to a certain location for x hours before needing to be recast or similar temporary passive port functionality.

Hilarity ensures when a newbie ports out to what he thinks is a newbie jungle but is actually a high level area because he didn't bother to see what location had been set by the last wizard to cast the port spell.

Ambiturner · Jan 31, 2014

Khane_sl said:
Let's face it, making it easier to get to your group is not in any way, shape or form anti-exploratory. If you want, make it so you have to physically travel to the dungeon before you can get summoned there by a group but don't require that everyone have to travel there every time.

People who pretend that EQ's model was good are out of touch. All we did as players was hug zone walls and beg for a SoW. We didn't see shit while running through the zones to get to our destination. The only thing you lose is the sense of fear travelling through high level connecting zones(which there is a good argument for, because that does actually matter and is part of a good gaming experience). But we can even argue that wasn't all that dangerous even in EQ because you rarely ran into anything while hugging the walls.

Require a majority of the group to have traveled to the dungeon, but once there allow them to be able to summon replacements directly to the group. This way the group has a better chance of staying in the dungeon and socializing in the dungeon than simply just leaving because nobody can be bothered to wait for the new guy to hoof it over to them.

If you make it a pain in the ass to get to the content (every single time) the out of the way zones/dungeons are going to remain empty unless you purposefully make them leaps and bounds more interesting with significantly better rewards than the less out of the way content.

Not having a LFG function (even if it's as simple as adding a LFG tag ala EQ) is absolutely unforgivable. If players have to travel to specific dungeons just to ask for a group they are going to not be experiencing the other content your game has to offer and also just try to find the dungeon that has the best chance of finding a group rather than trying to just find a group in general. Players will feel forced to consume content they may actually dislike just because it's a means to end (finding a group to level). Once again you're going to have players gravitating towards specific dungeons and your other dungeons will be all but empty. Now THAT is anti-exploratory.

It's useless. Despite the fact that every game missing these basic features have been a complete train wreck, these neckbeards are in complete denial. It's like their goal is to ruin every new mmo with their terrible nostalgic ideas.

Vandyn · Jan 31, 2014

I think LFG is fine as a grouping tool to form groups but I don't think it should be used to port you to the dungeon or wherever the group is, regardless of how many times that player has been there. Go that route and you'll eventually end up with the WoW syndrome of everyone hanging in town looking for group = empty world. I think you should limit teleports to certain classes. I think isolated ports (like PoK books) should be extremely limited as well.

shabushabu · Jan 31, 2014

Aradune_sl said:
Hey guys, there's a design idea and issue that we're debating, and we'd really like your feedback.

Ok, so Pantheon is about a huge, interesting open world to explore. We don't want people teleporting all over the place, missing out on content and the grandeur of Terminus.

So far we've said that there will be some opportunities to teleport to some locations as long as you've travelled there before without teleporting. Kind of like the Velious teleports.

We've also said that if you're at the entrance to a dungeon, a group within that dungeon can teleport you to them (likely a spell shared by some classes).

But from a design and philosophical standpoint, huge open world to explore and teleports/quick travel seem mutually exclusive to many who are interested in Pantheon.

So what about an elaborate LFG system? A dungeon finder? Someway to quickly travel to adventure areas where other people have already gathered and are trying to form groups?

it's anti-exploration, but it's pro-grouping. And exploration and grouping are both two major components of what makes Pantheon the game we're so excited to be working on.

So how can we strike a balance here? How do we offer game mechanics that are focused on people finding groups, making friends, eventually guilds, etc., but not shrink the world by allowing people to port all over the place? Where do we draw a line in the sand? Is finding groups and making friends more important or less important than a vast open world to explore, where taking the time to travel to an exotic and distant location gives you a great sense of accomplishment?

Pantheon already has a strong Vision(TM) behind it. We are wrapping up the high level design documents. The team is ideologically on the same page and agree with our goals and tenets. With probably one exception, the one I'm bringing up here. We go back and forth on it. Heck, I can argue either side just as convincingly.

So what do you guys think? Where is the balance? What tenet takes priority over the other?

When I said the community would be more involved with Pantheon than any of the other games we've worked on, I meant it. I love doing interviews and chats and videos. I really enjoy answering future players' questions. But this issue is turning out to be a tough one and we could really use your help and feedback.

Thanks in advance!

Hey Brad.

Have you seen DDO's group finder ? I always thought that was the best one in any game. Might want to take a look there. *note* this is not the "auto-group" flavor. Its more of a menu of available groups, in a selection of areas. The group creators can specify what classes are needed / wanted and can define the groups purpose ( i.e. grind, zerg, questing, named runs etc )...

As for teleporting, I say make them travel to the dungeons from a main location. I am ok with teleports from other players to these locations, or if you have been there you can teleport there.

That is how i would balance these functions.

Khane · Jan 31, 2014

tad10_sl said:
High level wizards can cast a port spell on a predetermined town artifact. Allowing port to a certain location for x hours before needing to be recast or similar temporary passive port functionality.

Hilarity ensures when a newbie ports out to what he thinks is a newbie jungle but is actually a high level area because he didn't bother to see what location had been set by the last wizard to cast the port spell.

Make it even more hilarious by making the default auto accept on the teleport right click. High level wizards running around town casting teleport on everyone in town crafting.

Chakravartin_sl · Jan 31, 2014

Speaking as the sole person in my Rift groups who ran up to that Foul Cascade dungeon every time while everyone else sat around like fat cunts waiting on the teleport, don't have them.

Graye_sl · Jan 31, 2014

Ambiturner_sl said:
It's useless. Despite the fact that every game missing these basic features have been a complete train wreck, these neckbeards are in complete denial. It's like their goal is to ruin every new mmo with their terrible nostalgic ideas.

Really.. because I recall Planes of Power driving away more players than it brought in. Faster travel! Yea....newp. You actually needed it because the populations plummeted. I remember the same with adding rifts to Vanguard (though.. yeah that was minor compared to everything else wrong with Vanguard)

This isn't a game for everyone. That was stated from day one. If you can't be asked to take 5-10 minutes for travel... there are plenty of other games that cater to that.

General location ports.
Call of Hero spell for healer archetypes
Simple LFG tool to offer convenience

There is no need to "port to group" like the miriad of other games we're trying to avoid.

Muligan · Jan 31, 2014

I think if you are "Dungeon Finding" you should be at a hub such as a Town Tavern where you could possibly also check into your room and/or craft, socialize, etc. There you could check-in with a Barkeep, Innkeep, or whatever to activate your LFG. This way, anyone at any other Tavern (or hub) in that town or other towns could check in with the Barkeep and see those interested in grouping.

This functionality would allow people in various places around the world, as long as they visit the tavern can check for those looking for work. Those looking for work, would have to be in a social area but also in an area where they can craft and work on their house/room. If people strike up a group, they can invite people advertising their services, and then hire people for transport as necessary.

I would think the marketplace would also work somehow through these hubs. I have always wanted towns to be more valuable and social hubs much like you read in many Tolkein-esque writings. Would like to see rather large gatherings in each town, flowing with adventurers, tradeskillers, merchants, etc.

Hope this makes sense. Didn't have much time to flesh it out as I would have liked....

Khane · Jan 31, 2014

Jait_sl said:
Let's face it, I pretend I'm all about immersion but really I just want to rush to max level so I can put all the contested raid mobs on lockdown and feel like an internet jock. Nobody can touch me. I actually don't give a shit about anything but being able to spend more time in this game than everyone else which should automatically make me more powerful. Let me cockblock everyone through wars of attrition and my superior thirst for time-based supremacy.

Right?

Pan'Theon: Rise' of th'e Fal'Len - #1 Thread in MMO

shitlord

shitlord

shitlord

shitlord

Molten Core Raider

Ancient MMO noob

Got something right about marriage

Molten Core Raider

shitlord

Ancient MMO noob

shitlord

Elisha Dushku

Ssraeszha Raider

Blackwing Lair Raider

Molten Core Raider

Got something right about marriage

shitlord

shitlord

Trakanon Raider

Got something right about marriage