I personally prefer spells for certain classes that allow them to teleport someone from the edge of a zone to them (be that in a dungeon or at its front door). 100% against some sort of LFG system that can port you. Not looking for a lobby game where everyone sits in one city and does all their dungeons and raiding from there... Also, I always felt LFG systems tend to go against community. Why not just have a channel that covers a continent or zones in your level range that are near?..
Pan'Theon: Rise' of th'e Fal'Len - #1 Thread in MMO
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Keep in mind once you give to the players instant dungeon travel (or something similar), it is very difficult to take it away. They will then expect it always.
If truly necessary, such a feature can be added later on (and hopefully in a very limited and controlled manner.)
If truly necessary, such a feature can be added later on (and hopefully in a very limited and controlled manner.)
tad10
Elisha Dushku
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You don't want "unnecessary tedium" which you don't define and which runs counter to your earlier "some tedium" comment. Your post is unclear and farty at both ends. But whatever I think you were the first to realize Pantheon will be vanilla WoW so you are still a winner in my book in the face.
popsicledeath
Potato del Grande
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Yeah, have mulled the options over.
You have main cities in every main region that you can't port to, but are the regional auction houses. People go there for the economy, but they aren't a place others hang out in general, thus potentially hurting a player driven economy because there'd be little walk-by traffic.
You have main cities in every main region you can port to, but the regional AHs are in other towns in the region. So, the cities are where people congregate, but again player driven economy and player congregation have to happen in different places.
And neither of these things make sense.
You could do something like the only way to sell an item on another region is to send it on a caravan that takes time and taxes getting to that new region.... Items could be flagged as adventure items, or products to be sold... etc.... I dunno, seems convoluted, and it seems to me the only way to have meaningful regional economies is to strictly limit almost all forms of fast travel, otherwise it's just undermined via fast travel, or ends up a system where it's a pain in the ass as the regional markets aren't where people are congregating.
But maybe that's fine. I was never a fan of EC tunnel syndrome myself. On the rare occasions I couldn't find a guildie, friend or random noob to give an item to, I'd basically go into EC and the best offer in the next minute would get the item whether I was being ripped off or not. Seemed to me EC was mostly people standing around selling items to each other and most of my guildies/friends were out adventuring and wanted nothing to do with it.
Theses system make the game less social not more.
In EQ you had to talk to people to get groups (social)
If you didnt know where to go what to do, you had to ask someone. (social)
If you couldn't find them you had to ask them for directions or someone to come and get you (social)
If a grouping zone was far away you had to ask for port from a Wiz or Druid (social)
The solution for making a more social game is not to add theses features its to leave them out.
Khane
Got something right about marriage
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Well I defined what I feel isn't necessary. I was hoping you would reply with why you feel it is necessary. I actually did spell out why I feel it's unnecessary in my original answer to the question.
No travel | EverQuest Next Forum
Sort of tying into my last thread; I think instant travel in respect to utilizing a client feature would be detrimental to the immersion of an MMO.
Now, I think getting a speed buff from a player, or a port from a player should be allowed. Having the ability to instantly travel to any place on the map(outside of forced social interaction with other players) as commonly seen in modern MMO's takes out the elements of adventure and exploration a player would receive. The moments of traveling across the map turned into its own game, and often times random things would occur in such environments. This added to the immersion factor. Having to depend on the community to help out in these cases also made games more compelling.
In older generations of MMO's, travel was a commodity: "Do I ask this person for a port/speed enhancement, and donate?", "Well, this person was pretty cool, I think I will add them to friends, and ask again in the future".
This form of travel was economically friendly and people built relationships because of it.
Sort of tying into my last thread; I think instant travel in respect to utilizing a client feature would be detrimental to the immersion of an MMO.
Now, I think getting a speed buff from a player, or a port from a player should be allowed. Having the ability to instantly travel to any place on the map(outside of forced social interaction with other players) as commonly seen in modern MMO's takes out the elements of adventure and exploration a player would receive. The moments of traveling across the map turned into its own game, and often times random things would occur in such environments. This added to the immersion factor. Having to depend on the community to help out in these cases also made games more compelling.
In older generations of MMO's, travel was a commodity: "Do I ask this person for a port/speed enhancement, and donate?", "Well, this person was pretty cool, I think I will add them to friends, and ask again in the future".
This form of travel was economically friendly and people built relationships because of it.
Sometimes, you need to jam social interaction down peoples throats whether they like it or not. Necessary evil.
It's all philosophy. Yes convenience, is well, convenient. BUT in the grand scheme it takes away from the WORLD. I am pretty sure you want a world here and not just a game. Needs to be a level of realism here when it comes to travel instead of it being overtly easy. Travel in itself being it's own game was fun. It alsoforcedsocial interaction, leaving people with more immersion. Walking through a forest is more interesting than para-jumping into one.
It's all philosophy. Yes convenience, is well, convenient. BUT in the grand scheme it takes away from the WORLD. I am pretty sure you want a world here and not just a game. Needs to be a level of realism here when it comes to travel instead of it being overtly easy. Travel in itself being it's own game was fun. It alsoforcedsocial interaction, leaving people with more immersion. Walking through a forest is more interesting than para-jumping into one.
popsicledeath
Potato del Grande
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I guess my thinking is the game will need people to travel at some point. You're either traveling to the dungeon, or having to travel in the dungeons. I liked Vanguard system where you ran to the dungeon, but then could get summoned to the group once you got there. The only way I see having a summon-to-the-group mechanic not be trivializing is making everyone at least run to the dungeon.
If you let half the group port directly to the dungeon, and then also get summoned in by the healer, now you're piggy backing fast travel too much to keep the world relevant.
I love delving deep into dungeons and shit, but I don't think I'd play a game that didn't have Vanguard summon-by-healer mechanic. It was not fun in EQ how often you'd have to re-clear to the same camp over and over each time someone had to leave the group, or have groups not even start because it took too long because you had to wait for every last member. If you've got the healer in Vanguard you can at least start killing shit. And once you earned a spot deep in a dungeon, could keep the group going indefinitely as long as you didn't wipe. That, to me, was the best promotion of grouping and making friends. And to have that, I think one can't have any porting directly to the dungeons at all, as the distance from the nearest port to the dungeon entrance then becomes the measurement that separates the out of the way, rare dungeons and the common easy to get to dungeons, which I think is also important to spread out the community based on the risks (and time, because it's unfortunately always a factor) they're willing to invest.
tad10
Elisha Dushku
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Eh. Once you start pick and choosing your tedium you are screwed. Eventually people will bitch about whatever tedium remains in the game and developers will cave.
Things shouldn't be eliminated because they are tedious (book in face) but because they're unbalancing and (book in face opens casters to attack that melee didn't have to deal with or wtf) or just stupid (book in face).
Just thinking out loud here.
But you could have marker point left by a group where it was formed and anyone who was in that area could be teleported to the group. so if the group was formed just outside the dungeon then anyone there could be ported to the group.
Still i feel i'm trying to solve an issue that doesnt exist. just make people find the group
But you could have marker point left by a group where it was formed and anyone who was in that area could be teleported to the group. so if the group was formed just outside the dungeon then anyone there could be ported to the group.
Still i feel i'm trying to solve an issue that doesnt exist. just make people find the group
Khane
Got something right about marriage
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You have to pick and choose what you feel is tedious because we are all humans with opinions and we have ideas about what is unnecessary vs what is necessary. Your book in face example is exactly that. An opinion on what you feel is unnecessary and stupid. Obviously people are going to disagree but if you sit back and think about systems in the game instead of just throwing shit out there in one extreme or the other you are already ahead of the curve. You've created a defensible position. You can explain that system in real terms and defend it to the opposition in a meaningful way.
DickTrickle
Definitely NOT Furor Planedefiler
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Two good days in a row. Either paycheck bump or the Garriott tie-in is bringing in some people. Best number of backers in a while by the time the day is done.
Convo
Ahn'Qiraj Raider
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My answer, doesn't fully line up with the launch of Pantheon because crafting might not be in. Plus it's kind of a knee jerk reply and might need to be thought out a bit more.. But, I think a Philosophy game designers should try to adopt before removing a feature, or making it easier, is to figure out a way to make it benefit the game by it's change. One way to do that is using the crafting system, which benefits the economy and the crafters.
I think what EQ did good was have a class interdependence system where we relied on each other at times...The problem was when you couldn't find a port or a rez, etc..
So have you guys considered allowing players to construct their own wizard spires so to speak? Not for just instant travel all over the place but limit it to maybe 1 place they can bounce from.. Tie the system into crafting and the porting classes so they still have value and all types of systems are working together and benefit.
Part of EQ was just a mini game in time management and resources. I think bending a little with an idea along these lines would allow some flexibility but not turn Pantheon into a lobby game..
For instance, If I know I was going to be spending the next 5 levels at a dungeon I really like, I'll go buy a crafter made portal pad.. (The pad was made by a crafter who needed a wizard or druid portal stone as a component,which he bought from one of those classes) Once the Pad is dropped, it's there permanently until the player buys a new one and places it at another location. The player can be teleported by certain classes or use a Wizard/Druid NPC for a fee. So a lot of things are taking place with this system, crafter, and porting classes are making money but a player is also gaining a little in time management. The design team can even control where a pad is placed incase you want some areas traversed on foot for whatever reason.
If I had to choose, I would say run it out but if I had to bend.. Something similar to what I suggested above. Just because I like fixing an issue using existing systems in the game like crafting and other classes.
Harping on this tier thing but any plans on adding another higher end pledge?
Think about it longer term. Any fee to a NPC for a port will likely be a tiny amount compared to millions in gold or plat people are rolling in. A system that allows someone to port to dungeons will likely mean that, close to max level, this person will not venture into the world because there's little reason to. He'll sit in Dalaran half-afk waiting for a dungeon port to pop. Those kinds of ports are want transforms these games into lobby games because at that level of advancement, you're completely and wholly ignoring the world. Dalaran was WoW's lobby. Don't make the same mistake.
The answer is that ports have to be class-provided. And they have to be to certain locations, not everywhere and anywhere in the world, certainly not a group 'dungeon port' to the entrance of a dungeon.
Be pro-grouping, but pro-world first. There is no sweet spot in the middle that doesn't interfere with what usefulness a class is able to bring.
The answer is that ports have to be class-provided. And they have to be to certain locations, not everywhere and anywhere in the world, certainly not a group 'dungeon port' to the entrance of a dungeon.
Be pro-grouping, but pro-world first. There is no sweet spot in the middle that doesn't interfere with what usefulness a class is able to bring.