Pan'Theon: Rise' of th'e Fal'Len - #1 Thread in MMO
- Thread starter gogojira_sl
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Still probably wouldn't have held people's attention. The game launched too soon without an actual end-game. Unfortunately for VG the early game was the most fun but also with all the chunking crashes and overall performance problems people couldn't really experience it in a satisfying manner. Luckily for me I had one of those supercomputers that VG was tuned to perform on so I probably lasted longer than most playing the game. I still think it has some of the best class design and class interaction out there but the flesh was just not on the skeleton even without the technical problems.
And I don't know who was beta testing VG but the balance was all fucked up too. Some classes being able to solo purples and other barely able to solo 1 dots. Like my disciple was completely invincible by just cycling his healing combo. Not sure how that got past QA and testing or if they simply didn't care.
Convo
Ahn'Qiraj Raider
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All I'm doing is the opposite of what they are. We can both be ridiculous. What's the problem? But look at it from a different perspective. He's saying there are probably less than 2k people interested in this and I'm saying in 2007 250k people were interested in a game like this. So using his numbers the MMO genre lost 248k people who care about a game like Pantheon... It's not that I think Pantheon is going to get 250k players, I'm just emphasizing the market has not changed that drastically. I think if they start with 50k people it would be awesome, but you can never tell where things will land.
Reht
Molten Core Raider
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Yeah, totally agree, in addition the technical issues, the game just felt incomplete after the early levels to me during the beta. It was enough that i never even gave it a shot at launch.
Utnayan
I Love Utnayan he’s awesome
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Reht
Molten Core Raider
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Convo
Ahn'Qiraj Raider
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Erronius
Macho Ma'am
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You can be ridiculous if you want, I don't really care. But if I had to compare Tenks' number and argument versus your VG number and argument...let's just say that one sounds kinda reasonable, and the other sounds like wishlisting.
Convo
Ahn'Qiraj Raider
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I edited that post.. Guess you caught the short end but here it is..
All I'm doing is the opposite of what they are. We can both be ridiculous. What's the problem? But look at it from a different perspective. He's saying there are probably less than 2k people interested in this and I'm saying in 2007 250k people were interested in a game like this. So using his numbers the MMO genre lost 248k people who care about a game like Pantheon... It's not that I think Pantheon is going to get 250k players, I'm just emphasizing the market has not changed that drastically. I think if they start with 50k people it would be awesome, but you can never tell where things will land.
Grim1
Ahn'Qiraj Raider
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All of the numbers on both sides are completely made up. Everyone who says theyknowif EQ Remade.. I mean Pantheon will be a hit or a failure is lying to themselves and everyone else. We won't know until it is released. And even then it won't be the style of game that matters as much as if it is fun or not.
Being fun is always the most important thing. The rest of this conjecture is bullshit. But it makes for fun reading when we are all bored at work.
Arden
Blackwing Lair Raider
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Stick around. If Pantheon ever launches you'll get a pretty close approximation.
Utnayan
I Love Utnayan he’s awesome
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Yeah but being fun doesn't matter to Convo in this regard. He doesn't mind sitting at Orc camp 1 hitting the same pack of orcs over and over again for 3 hours with limited abilities as he jokes around with his buddies on Mumble and watches 4 episodes of Billions on the other screen.
Convo
Ahn'Qiraj Raider
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i know it doesn't compare to quest and AE grinding solo to max level but hopefully it's enough for some players... You're getting desperate with these weak comments. You obviously missed the class interdependency that took place within that group during the demo. The dynamics of the group and how you go about killing in that area can change based on class makeup. That in itself becomes fun. But yea, chilling with my buddies and playing at whatever pace we decide is fun to me. Plus we still need to see how the AI works out. It could get even more interesting/challenging.
Arden
Blackwing Lair Raider
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Doesn't sound like a terrible way to waste time.
Especially if you throw in a train and a dungeon raid from time to time.
Noodleface
A Mod Real Quick
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I just don't get it. This is a dude that made this exact game with a huge budget and studio and FAILED. why is this time different? Oh that's right, he has even less people and a fraction of the money.
Emotiv
Silver Squire
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Ever hear a band that ROCKS on their first album, then blows on their second album with the big budget, and forgets what got them there in the first place? Same thing. Except more drugs in this case.
Raign
Golden Squire
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Not at all. Trust me, I am in no way saying that EQ was bereft of problems... it was a shit show much (a lot...) of the time. The thing that sticks with me and from the sounds of it, a number of other people here, is that despite these problems they took some chances and as a result got a lot of things right. Meaningful loot that often had intrinsic value besides +1 betterer stats, required social interaction and the associated repercussions if you were a douche, significant challenge level, and actual sense of real risk vs. reward, and unique classes/ class interactions. Did all those things often amount to some content ending up broken or unbalanced? Absolutely. But that is what made it interesting and memorable.
When WoW came along, Pardo made everything easier... both good and bad. Things like instancing made the game much more accessible, but it made most loot nearly meaningless since you could not limit its flow into the game. Dungeon finder seemed like a god send compared to sitting on the end of PoD lfg until you wiped in Lycium for the 11th time because the dungeon finder had fed you yet another keyboard turning hunter... etc etc.
Did I like the crappy animations or that my video card crashed every time lightning flashed in the Overthere, or that I spent 85 hours camping Betrayer in Chardok only to have to get a multiquest anyway? Not really... but I actually remember all those things happened which is more than I can say for most of WoW and its weak clone army since.
We certainly can't be sure that McQuaid is going to recapture any of the aforementioned, but at least it looks like he is somewhat trying.
Grim1
Ahn'Qiraj Raider
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Actually, I had a lot of fun doing that. Static camps have their place in mmos, especially when you know the other players and are cracking each other up. Action combat is fun and all, but it can get so involved that groups don't talk or interact except to announce combat mechanics. That gets very boring very quickly. A little breathing room during the combat allows for human interactions that can be much more entertaining. In many ways EQ was just a chat room, but it worked.
A good group of fun people is always a better time than any mmo ai. Modern mmos have forgotten that.
This mechanic was stolen right from sojourn MUD. You had to cycle sitting to pull aggro because rescue sucked.
Arden
Blackwing Lair Raider
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I'll play the devil's advocate here:
You could write a book on all the shit that went wrong with Sigil. Just having a bunch of people and a bunch of money doesn't mean you are going to pop out a great game.
There were a ton of toxic personalities at SGO trying to pull the game in different directions. There was a ton of pressure from the bankrollers putting up unrealistic expectations. There were personality conflicts, infighting, betrayal, marital infidelity, you fucking name it. Seriously, it would have made a great HBO miniseries. The thing that struck me as the most damning though, was that no one was at the helm. The ship was heading right for the rocks for months- hell, years, and there was no one to change the course.
Most of those things (maybe all of them?) aren't factors now. I think it's a puerile, douchebag thing to do to harp on a guy's substance abuse problems, but I'll bring it up here just to say that (at the least) I think Brad seems like he's in a much better place now than he was during SGO.
Not to mention, sometimes smaller=simpler=more focused=better.