Pan'Theon: Rise' of th'e Fal'Len - #1 Thread in MMO
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Daidraco
Golden Baronet of the Realm
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it sounds counter productive, but I dont want it to be a "big thing". Id rather they stick to the niche they appear to be going after and cater to that shit. Even if Im not a neckbeard 14 year old kid anymore, I still love the design and concept.
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Dullahan
Golden Knight of the Realm
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Even if Pantheon is everything EQ with a lot more, it will never be the next big thing. These days, a lot of people don't want risk with their reward. If they have to devote real time to a game and can potentially lose time in failure, that's more than some can bear.
That's okay though. Others will enjoy it, and it's likely many who are so adamantly against those things will end up liking it too.
That's okay though. Others will enjoy it, and it's likely many who are so adamantly against those things will end up liking it too.
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yamikazo
Trakanon Raider
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In light of SotA's financial troubles, does anyone realistically think this crew can put a game out?
I'm amazed they're still keeping the lights on and able to bring in new team members. Selling out to investors (Series A funding round) means sooner or later, they're going to have to focus on making a profit instead of looking to make the world Brad dreams of.
I'm amazed they're still keeping the lights on and able to bring in new team members. Selling out to investors (Series A funding round) means sooner or later, they're going to have to focus on making a profit instead of looking to make the world Brad dreams of.
Louis
Trakanon Raider
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Year and a half ago I would have said fuck no. Now im cautiously optimistic "something" gets released.
kegkilla
The Big Mod
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Problem with this game is that it's really only going to appeal to people looking for a spiritual successor to EQ. So you've got a target audience of like 50k people total which realistically translates to about 20k subs at launch and less than 10k 6 months out.
Another problem is that these people are pretty much the last people you want playing your game. A bunch of anti-social min/maxers who use the game to RMT to supplement their disability income.
You don't need an MBA to figure out that this game was fucked from the planning stages.
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Grim1
Ahn'Qiraj Raider
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It will be like every other mmo release. The herd that travels to all the new mmos will be there for the first month ir so, then most of them will go back to WoW.
Pantheon's long term success will be based on player retention and if the game keeps people logging in it will evolve into another niche mmo, just like every other mmo than WoW. That means it has to be fairly stable (not like Vangard) and fun.
Claiming that only old people looking for EQ nostalgia is the only market for this game is myopic. Asian grinders do very well in the niche space, just look at Black Desert for the most recent example.
Pantheon's long term success will be based on player retention and if the game keeps people logging in it will evolve into another niche mmo, just like every other mmo than WoW. That means it has to be fairly stable (not like Vangard) and fun.
Claiming that only old people looking for EQ nostalgia is the only market for this game is myopic. Asian grinders do very well in the niche space, just look at Black Desert for the most recent example.
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Yeah, EQ was like what, 20 yrs ago almost? Sure peeps from the EQ nostalgia will come, but so will others. Remember most of the wow crowds never heard of EQ. Also remember that the mmo scene is pretty much dead these days. There is a few games since wow that captured the crowds, and even fewer of them managed to keep them thats it. But its not like they dont exist. IMO this is a huge opportunity right now. Release a working and finished game and you have a chance, IMO even better if the game actually poses a challenge and is not just another easymode WoW clone like we have been getting for the last 10 yrs. Grim is right, if they manage to retain some of the peeps that will undoubtedly try this,t hen they have a shot. Build a good game and they will come. MMORPG market is still pretty big, just no one wants to take a chance anymore at making the 54th WoW clone for 80 million dollars and failing. The market is there, the problem is the whole finished and good part.
TJT
Mr. Poopybutthole
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Enough MMOs have been out by now that Pantheon's design concept simply differs from that of the mainstream MMO school of thought. Which is WoW and all WoW-like games.
When you have 2000+ people playing on an emulated 20 year old game and however many coming back to TLPs on a 20 year old game and whoever plays EQ Live and shit. It doesn't take an idiot to realize that there is a market for this kind of design.
There's probably a market for all kinds of niche MMOs. Which is why we're seeing niche MMOs get developed more now. While I did go back to Agnarr for nostalgia. I do find all of it quite enjoyable. Especially with the QoL elements they shoehorned into it.
Here is the core of what the perpetual EQ player seems to like and want in a game.
- Meaningful character advancement
- Meaningful community interaction and character reputations.
- Group-based leveling and decision making.
- Death penalty that stings.
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DickTrickle
Definitely NOT Furor Planedefiler
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I hope Pantheon has a loot system like EQ's current advance loot system. Really makes things so much nicer. I remember how annoying it could be to try and click a corpse back in the day, especially if you were doing something like AEing. I honestly think some relatively minor QoL stuff like that would really help keep irritation down, especially if the game has some challenge. I want to be stymied by content, not dealing with UI or other kinds of silly bullshit.
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The game seems to be progressing nicely but will Patheon ever get big?
Even in the best case I agree with F Fordrynn and
Dullahan
: never.
It will never be huge like Wow or even close to BDO. To be the next big thing Pantheon 1.0 would have to transition away from group dependencies and difficult content towards ease and accessability on a massive scale. This would destroy or go against too many core design premises of an EQ like game.
Like
Daidraco
I would also prefer they stay small and stick to focusing on their niche (rougly defined as EQ like design) without risks of trying to reinvent the fantasy MMO wheel or catering much to the "serve me all content on a platter" crowd.
Looking at their progress so far? In general, so far so good.
I agree with Grimm that many other non EQers will too but only if the content is robust enough to last most of a year. They will be much more fickle less forgiving than the EQ fans.
Even in the best case I agree with F Fordrynn and
Dullahan
: never.It will never be huge like Wow or even close to BDO. To be the next big thing Pantheon 1.0 would have to transition away from group dependencies and difficult content towards ease and accessability on a massive scale. This would destroy or go against too many core design premises of an EQ like game.
Like
Daidraco
I would also prefer they stay small and stick to focusing on their niche (rougly defined as EQ like design) without risks of trying to reinvent the fantasy MMO wheel or catering much to the "serve me all content on a platter" crowd.Looking at their progress so far? In general, so far so good.
- All the streams so far seem to indicate they are sticking to an ultra conservative path.
- No signs yet of overdesigning, nor featuritis. For example I really like the fact that even on paper the class defining skills are pretty ho-hum without any overhyped gimmicks.
- Re-using EQ sound effects so far kind of tells us how desperate they are to trigger those old EQ addiction memories. Good for them though, works for me.
I agree with Grimm that many other non EQers will too but only if the content is robust enough to last most of a year. They will be much more fickle less forgiving than the EQ fans.
TJT
Mr. Poopybutthole
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Advance Loot and the Agent of Change are two really clever things developed into EQ. Especially the Agent of Change. Casuals get their shot at raiding and/or failing the dragon raid every week.
Poopsockers get to compete over the "extra" spawns.
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It does not need to be the next big thing. It just needs to be a thing.
Also I dont agree with you on the risk vs reward thing. People dont know what they want, but without a true risk vs reward system int he game, only handing out rewards for simply playing and not winning leads to a hollow gaming experience. The trick is to ramp it all up at a pace that is invisible to the player. The problem with EQ back in its day was that the game had no ramp up. It basically started brutal and ended even more brutal with ass fucking along the way. Hence why EQ had shit retention. Im betting 70% of people that tried it back in the day dint even make it to lv10 before quitting. But if you can temper this a bit and make the player ease into it with easier early game, ramp up in the mid levels and then ass fucking at high levels/end game then the player retention will be greater.
yamikazo
Trakanon Raider
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SotA burned through 18 million dollars, it was on Steam, and had a huge In-Game $hop. Only to come up short.
Does Pantheon need 10 million dollars to launch? With 50k subs they need to make $200 off each player, without whales because Brad thus far has been against the cash shop, that's taking years AFTER RELEASE to break even before starting to pay back investors.
yerm
Golden Baronet of the Realm
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50k people paying $15 a month is $9 mil in one year.
Taking a few years to net a profit is completely normal in business.
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DickTrickle
Definitely NOT Furor Planedefiler
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If eq tlp taught me anything, they need to find some way to squeeze the whales to truly make some money.
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