Pan'Theon: Rise' of th'e Fal'Len - #1 Thread in MMO

All they have to do for pvp is adopt the guild wars 2 system, and make your bars change with pvp skills as soon as you engage in combat.

But then you need 2 dev teams working to balance two different games.

I'm curious what Blizzard will steal from EQ next for there new game to make overworld pvp more tangible,

As long as they dont add the terrible " dead but not dead" system like gw2. The combat wasnt bad but the game still needs tanks heals dps cc etc.

I'm just talking about the bars changing from guild wars. The rest of that game was garbage.

PvP!? I don't know if this is the thread to discuss it.. I doubt that will play much of a part of this mmo

Convo_sl said:

PvP!? I don't know if this is the thread to discuss it.. I doubt that will play much of a part of this mmo

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They was talking about class balancing and I always blame pvp fro why we can't have nice things.

GonzytheMage_sl said:

They was talking about class balancing and I always blame pvp fro why we can't have nice things.

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hah it's hard not to blame PvP but for me it's Dev time wasted when they could be working on the PvE side of things. Again, this is going to be a niche project so they will have to prioritize.

I'd rather a company get a solid PvE game up and running then reuse the world/art/classes, etc and make a PvP game.. MMO's have been plagued with Devs trying to do too much at once to get that mass appeal. There is a checklist they want to meet so it can appeal to everyone. Just never works long term. not since WoW and I'd argue WoW came up short in some areas but mastered others.

GonzytheMage_sl said:

They was talking about class balancing and I always blame pvp fro why we can't have nice things.

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Just so I can go on record as a hardcore PVP fan , I loathe class balancing for PVP.

If a rogue can stealth and backstab a wizard in one shot , a wizard kite a warrior laughing all day , or a necro dot up and pet attack while laughing behind a tree , so be it. Even better if the enchanter can charm you and run you off the cliff. Make sure your friends kill that enchanter before it happens. Or in revenge.


Group PVP , danger and , and world PVP is where it's all at , fuck one on one arena balancing.

Sadly you are right though , the forums erupt with whiny bitches who want one on one PVP balancing.

In this case , all I'd ever hope for is an old school PVE game with a server where PVP flag is turned on and leave it to the players to sort it out.

Can't stand , can't stand , worrying about PVP balance or one on one class balance and I'm a PVP fan.

Expect a Kickstarter campaign in 4 weeks or so..... Should be fun

tad10_sl said:

Niche is fine. But for this game to survive Brad has to:

-Allow for solo play by all classes (this was possible in VG, but not in EQ). VG had the right mix, best stuff was in dungeons requiring groups, but you could solo grind two or three dots when nobody was on (this is one of the reasons VG is still going because of the solo content).

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Absolutely not. This is exactly the problem with today's games. EVERYONE just solo's and no one feels the need to group because..........why would you? Humans will always take the path of least resistance. If you allow them to solo, they will.

Merlin_sl said:

Absolutely not. This is exactly the problem with today's games. EVERYONE just solo's and no one feels the need to group because..........why would you? Humans will always take the path of least resistance. If you allow them to solo, they will.

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The ability to solo does not mean everything in the game has to be solo content. Wizards, Druids, Bards, Shaman, Necros, Mages, Enchanters. All of these classes could solo in EQ. What was stupid was that classes like Rogues and Warriors couldn't. However, throw a Shaman with any melee class and they could duo a lot of stuff if they were good enough and people did that all the time.

In my opinion what made EQ so great was that certain zones had different difficulties even at max level. Velks Lab was a lot easier to group (or even solo) in than Dragon Necropolis or Western Wastes. If you could get people together to do it the loot was a lot better too. I'd like to see that style come back. In WoW and games since WoW every single level appropriate zone is the same in difficulty as every other zone appropriate for the same level. Winterspring was the same difficulty as EPL. Felwood was the same difficulty as WPL, etc etc etc. I don't see why we can't have a zone or two appropriate for solo, a zone or two appropriate for small groups, a zone or two appropriate for full groups, and a zone or two appropriate for full groups of people with good coordination and skill, all with scaling rewards.

All comes back around to - EQ was designed more as a world, than as a game. Things like varying difficulty in the same zone, long travel times, etc makes for a great world, not so great a game. Many people just want to see a world again.

I almost feel like the ability to solo in EQ actually isolated a lot of people in the long run. I'm sure we all know that one guy who was soloing like 90% of the time and then would complain about not getting into guild groups to do stuff because he only wanted to co-operate on his rare whims. I can think of a lot of players like that early on, who rerolled stuff like necro or mage and then became E-hermits while the rest of us formed groups and cliques that lasted years.

Eq made you start grouping at like level 5 if you were a weaker class.

In todays mmos, you realy don't have to group at all, and if you do they make it almost at the end game.


That is one thing I liked about EQ.

The slow leveling caused everyone to stay in one zone for a long period of time, then they would more ,or less move to the next zone together.
There was allot of community there, so by the time you made 50 your rep did count for something, and it was much easier to be in a guild with the people you had been spending monthes playing the game with.

I guess thats why they called EQ a chatroom where you slayed dragons.


Unfortunately, none of that shit would work today. The new brand of mmo player destroys content no matter how hard it is, and has no respect for anything.
Community is just lord of the flys shit now

Rogosh_sl said:

As long as they dont add the terrible " dead but not dead" system like gw2.

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Didn't eq have this to a lesser extent with "You have been knocked unconscious?" I'd like to think there should be something between performing at 100% and dead.

Axiel_sl said:

Didn't eq have this to a lesser extent with "You have been knocked unconscious?" I'd like to think there should be something between performing at 100% and dead.

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Purple club is very different than GW2's downed state. GW2's downed state you'd be on the ground slinging rocks n shit trying to get back up. Some fights you'd be on the ground more than up, heh.

I'm trying not to blame WoW but the "quest to level up" concept is grouping unfriendly. Either you coordinate together and only play together, so always have the same quests, or one or the other is getting the short end of the stick. Also why groups have no lasting power in such games, you might team up for a batch of quests and do those together, but then you notice that each group member has different ones left afterwards and split up. Really liked that GW2 broke with that pattern, but since it doesnt provide incentive or difficulty for playing together everyone still solos.

Purple Club was the best thing for clerics ever.

Never could you troll a tank better then that, other then Priests gripping them off cliffs in wow.

Anyone Remember the Quon?

http://westkarana.com/index.php/2008...-class-to-you/

Tmac47_sl said:

Hard factions, levels and the "holy trinity" (tank,dps,healer) all help in alienating the playerbase's ability to group.

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Yes, absolutely it did. I would argue however that the "holy trinity" also remains the best way to group. Everyone knew their role and perfected it. While I'm sure this is an unpopular opinion, I loved the holy trinity. I can't stand today's "everyone can do everything" classes. No one stands out, no one is unique. Everyone is just kinda flying through content at breakneck speed till they are finished, then they all go they're separate ways. No one talks, no friendships are born, no one needs anyone so their is no reason to shout or ask anyone for help, it just feels so.......cold. I remember spending weeks in KC and it just ran like clockwork. Tank pulls, healer heals, druid snares, wizards nuke at 70%....and in between pulls we would all talk about what we were doing or what raids we were going on that night or what jobs we had.....I had dozens of people on my friends list and would often send tells to fill groups or ask for help. I've been playing EQ2 since the beginning. My current friends list has 6 people in it, and 2 of them are my wife's alts. The very design of today's MMO's actually discourage grouping, talking, or helping others. I mean jesus, they even restrict buffing now so you can't run by that level 18 getting his butt kicked, heal him, buff him and keep running. I can't stand the direction the industry has taken.