Pan'Theon: Rise' of th'e Fal'Len - #1 Thread in MMO

frankly i'd be happy if Brad ran an EQEmu server and charged a sub fee.

Zoning - some games I found it jarring and troublesome (EQ, Vanguard). Some I didn't (FFXIV). However in some games, the great no-zoning is really nice (indoors in VG, outdoors in LOTRO, for example). My preference is to no loading ever once in game, and to just load things in a bubble around a person.

Leashing - I'd like to see it gone as we know it. I'd expect enemies and beasts to be protective of an area, and once you're no longer threatening it, to leave you alone. Nothing as static and boring as "15 yards then every creature turns around." But I'd also expect NPCs/MOBs to not be so damn blind, for one guy not to chase down a party, etc. If I approach an encampment, I'd expect them to be lined up waiting for me while arrows are already plinking around me.

gogojira_sl said:

I've already seen a question or two thrown his way via Twitter (one from an avid EQN supporter) missing the point of this MMO. This game is born from the idea of being different from the pack, yet some people can't help but try to drive it back in -- I just don't get it.

I'll be tossing a few questions his way this weekend in hopes I get an answer or two. I'm not sure if he'll be willing to give the details yet, but I want to hear about a sub model. This isn't a game designed around modern conventions and the audience it's being pitched to loves a clean game free of store bought items. I hope this is the route that's being taken. Store free, $15 a month.

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Hopefully he's smart enough to ignore the folks who don't want a game like this. There's umpteen other no death penalty ,quick fix mmo's out there. Just want him to stick to the premise of not making a game for everyone , and for someone who didn't like the EQ'ish/VG style mechanics , don't worry about their wants/opinion a bit.

Furious_sl said:

I doubt Sony will lend any of its Tech to a former employee. What Brad should do IMO is what Neos Land is doing. He does the Class design and lets the players build the world and help develop art assets.
This way he gets to control the important parts without blowing a huge budget. Plus it keeps people WAY more interested if there is three years left (or more) in development.

I just don't see Smed lending any help to his competition. I'd like to be wrong

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Smed: If you do a successful kickstarter we will publish it (and you get our tech/can use our server-farms/use our billing systems/patcher/etc...). We get 50% of every dollar the game makes....

Brad: OK!

Dahkoht_sl said:

Hopefully he's smart enough to ignore the folks who don't want a game like this. There's umpteen other no death penalty ,quick fix mmo's out there. Just want him to stick to the premise of not making a game for everyone , and for someone who didn't like the EQ'ish/VG style mechanics , don't worry about their wants/opinion a bit.

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these people will be there all the way to launch. It will be easier to silence them tho since we know the kind of game he plans to make.

I'm hoping he puts up some forums like he did when VG was in it's early development.

Dahkoht_sl said:

Hopefully he's smart enough to ignore the folks who don't want a game like this. There's umpteen other no death penalty ,quick fix mmo's out there. Just want him to stick to the premise of not making a game for everyone , and for someone who didn't like the EQ'ish/VG style mechanics , don't worry about their wants/opinion a bit.

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yes sir... must have this gap in market filled... then laugh when it is doing better than eqnext... oops let cat out of bag. j/k

They should sell him the EQMac server, code, and whatever. Throw VG in on the deal. haha

Seriously, I think FFXIV gave us a glimpse of the truth and that is people still enjoys many of the concepts that MMO's are supposedly trying to phase out. I cannot believe I never really though about zoning either until reading this forum. I've been fine and have actually enjoyed FFXIV more so than any MMO release in the last 2-3 years at least.

I'm hoping that surveying the player base will give Brad and any other developer the confidence that a more traditional MMO approach is not gaming suicide. With new consoles coming out, let these guys go back to playing their console games and satisfy their gaming ADD and give us MMO's back.

Niche really is the key, I feel. I'm hoping he's smart enough to realize that you can't out-wow wow, and the the more people you try to appeal to, the less everyone likes it as a whole. Decide exactly what segment of the population you want to cater to, and cater to them. Don't listen to the people who want a different game. Make a game that targets a certain demographic and don't compromise. Also don't overextend resources and end up with a highly unfinished but huge game. That might be the hard part.

I really wonder if that twitter question about feeling like a hero early on was a softball question or just if the guy expects players to be just that entitled and need to kill dragons or win a war effort at level 3. I feel heroic when I train 5 fire and 3 fire beetles to the gate guards.

So has no one seriously tweeted and asked him when he plans to post on rerolled again to drum up kickstarter support?

Needs to make RR the "unofficial official" forum to be opposite of the EQN folks using the Reddit High Five everything we say as theirs.

forge_sl said:

So has no one seriously tweeted and asked him when he plans to post on rerolled again to drum up kickstarter support?

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Spoke to him about this a few weeks ago.. He doesn't see the need yet. He'll eventually show up. He isn't posting anywhere.. At least not under he real name.

Convo_sl said:

Spoke to him about this a few weeks ago.. He doesn't see the need yet. He'll eventually show up. He isn't posting anywhere.. At least not under he real name.

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I dunno. Even after five years people would rage him about the Vanguard saga. It wouldn't be a very productive thread.

Merlin_sl said:

I dunno. Even after five years people would rage him about the Vanguard saga. It wouldn't be a very productive thread.

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Eh, people are going to bring that up no matter where he goes. He'll just have to ignore some of the more outrageous shit. He's tackled it pretty good so far by just taking blame. For some people no explanation will be enough. He just needs to bare it and let his new MMO do the talking.

That guy asking how to feel special at level 1..... what a fucking clueless tool. In EQ I had 90% empty slots until about level 10 when I finally got a mixture of cloth and leather. It was 20 levels until I finally got some plate and even that was shitty bronze which was really heavy and only mediocre AC and no stats. I didn't feel special at all until I neared 50, but if anything, that's what motivated me to play so hard, because I knew I had so much I needed to improve. I can't even begin to insult the type of moron who even asks that question, because they don't even exist in my world at all. I never realised it before, I thought SOE sucked because they were dumb, but he sounds like the exact kind of douche who goes straight from school to university and straight from uni to a job, and his entire language is one of jargon and bullshit exam questions and hypotheses. He is probably top of the class when it comes to kissing lecturer ass and scoring top marks in some quiz written in 1985, but when it comes to genuinely understand and loving his chosen vocation, he is a fucking dimwit.

That's why I was rambling in some other post about whether Brad is even a gamer any more. I hope he is. Because to put it simply, I don't want to play a game that is designed by committee, whether that's a bunch of forum noobs demanding it cater to them, or a boardroom full of over educated but under enlightened ladder climbing corporate dick holes. I want a game designed by a fellow geek who loves D&D and thinks it would be far out to make one of those awesome MUD worlds but in like... 3d... with real trees and shit. And people play as paladins and wizards and stuff and you kill monsters for loot and try to survive in this far out dangerous fantasy world. Duuuuuude. That's what kickstarter is all about. I'm sure some day it will get taken over by the corporate dick heads it was supposed to usurp, but for now, it exists to give power to the people. It lets people like me give my money directly to someone else like me, who wants to make something we would both like, and the EA suit wear parasites don't even get to pass an opinion.

What is this fool you all are talking about asking about being special at lvl 1 , and has anyone told said fool not the game for him and to go away ?

I really never attributed VG's failures to Brad's inability to make a game. Brad was making bad life decisions that was impacting his ability to even function day to day and you tandem that with working with people like Microsoft, then taking over the game himself, and then SoE, the game never had the chance to be well thought out or properly assessed. They couldn't make deadlines, they had no leadership, and resources were dwindling by the day. VG was partially a victim of timing and circumstance. Everything Brad had to offer was completely covered up with a screwed up life and a screwed up company.

That's really my take on the past and it is over. Sure EQ mistakenly worked but it was their idea, concept, and product they risked throwing out there and it worked. That could easily happen again and I think Brad has the ideas and the talent but I don't equate that to any sovereignty. I'd say if nothing else, this should be entertaining and i'm willing to kick in a few bucks just to sit back and watch what unravels.

My big concern is who is willing to work with him again. A friend of mine was on the VG team and I think it was somewhat traumatic due to the uncertainty that was looming over everyone's head at the end and I know a lot of those guys talk and Brad will have to earn back some level of trust to get a talented and competent team. Unless, they do it just for the sake of the project.