Pan'Theon: Rise' of th'e Fal'Len - #1 Thread in MMO

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Aeiouy_sl

shitlord
217
0
Arctic_Slicer_sl said:
Hopefully this delayed PCgamer article has taught him not to rely on such outlets with the clock ticking. The best place to post new information about his game is on the kickstarter page and he should be posting as much of it as he can as soon as he can. The more excited he can get people about the game now; the more people will spread the word. Going forward he must do.
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I don't think doing interviews to gamer sites hurts at all. However I would tell sites who are getting exclusive information that the release of information on ks and that the information will be published on ks by x date and y time regardless of when they decide to publish. So their exclusivity is dependent on the time schedule.

I agree getting the information on ks is psramount. Interviews are just a way to try and let more people know about the ks. However they can't impede the information roll out of a limited funding cycle. Them publishing late and holding up information negates their value significantly.

I don't know much about pcgamer but looking at it over the last few days they seem to have two or three main stories a day. So it is not like it is a niagra falls of stories. Which is fine, but being three days off or more on delivery means they either don't care about or understand the time component.

I do think interviews with game sites can be a tool that can work in the ks environment but you have to approach it more aggressively and absolutely with publishers in terms of deadlines and roll outs.

In this limited and precise funding window all information deadlines need to be hard and if other sources fail to meet those timelines the information should still be presented. If it were me and pcgamer did not deliver by early afternoon tomorrow I would already have an update written and ready to go up early afternoon tomorrow. If pcgamer gets upset they will have to get over it. As will all future interviewers. In fact I would be following up with all other pending interview release points and push for hard commitments and give them drop dead deadlines for when you have to publish their exclusive information without them.

Can't really sorry about some web page editors getting their feelings hurt when you have to be aggressively maximizing each day.
 
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Aeiouy_sl

shitlord
217
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Boozecube_sl said:
The problem here is this is an assumption and while it might be a decent one it would be much better if they took the time to spell it out. They could do what you said, or they could plan on selling it out once they get it far enough along that a major studio will buy it, or they could go on a $800k coke binge in Vegas, nobody really fucking knows except Brad and he isn't telling.
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It is not an assumption though. Further funding is specifically addressed on the ks page. Brad has specifically touched on issues with funding from a publisher itt.

It is clear to me that they intend to continue to pursue crowdsourced funding to continue to finance the game.
 
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Arctic_Slicer_sl

shitlord
155
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Popsicledeath and Aeiouy are exactly right. There are many things to criticize about how this kickstarter campaign has been launched and run thus far and Brad deserves that criticism and lots of it; however there is a huge difference between constructive criticism and unproductive trolling. If you actually want an old EverQuest style game and actually want this project to succeed; how is it beneficial to not make a pledge, or worse make a pledge and then pull that pledge? If you're worried this project wont get funded because of the bad kickstarter campaign then why pull your pledge since if it doesn't get funded you're not out anything. When you start pulling your pledges and creating a negative trend other people start wondering why the funding is going backwards and start panicking; possibly creating an unstoppable backwards trend which could just kill the project and any chance for a spiritual success to EverQuest outright. There are much more productive ways to go about this. Seriously try emailing Ben about your concerns or about what you would like to see; I have and got a reply back from to let me know that he agreed with many of the things that I wrote and that he would bring them up at tomorrow's meeting. These guys care about what we have to say and will lend an ear to what we have to say but only if we conduct ourselves in a professional and constructive manner.
 
Quineloe

Quineloe

Ahn'Qiraj Raider
6,978
4,463
AS you're aware by far most of us still have their pledge in?

It's also not like this is the end of the world if this KS fails, maybe it would be better to actually have to show something for a new KS because right now it feels like they haven't done anything in the last few months. As has been said, if they're asking for that kind of money, they should be all in, and actually working on it on their free time. I don't know what Brad or the other guys are doing right now, it surely doesn't feel like they're already "making" the game.
 
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Arctic_Slicer_sl

shitlord
155
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Quineloe_sl said:
AS you're aware by far most of us still have their pledge in?

It's also not like this is the end of the world if this KS fails, maybe it would be better to actually have to show something for a new KS because right now it feels like they haven't done anything in the last few months. As has been said, if they're asking for that kind of money, they should be all in, and actually working on it on their free time. I don't know what Brad or the other guys are doing right now, it surely doesn't feel like they're already "making" the game.
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I'm aware that not all of you have not pulled your pledge or that some of you have simply managed it down to $1(which isn't much different from pulling a pledge as it still creates a negative trend); however many people have and really shouldn't be.

I totally agree that they should have been more prepared but there is no changing that now and it is what it is. The problem though is if it fails will people give him another chance or will they be like "oh this guy again? Remember what happened last time he tried to do a kickstarter?" Will the press outlets be as interested in posting about it again? There is still 31 days on this project which gives them plenty of time to turn this around. Instead of writing this campaign off as a failure; we should as all be trying to help him improve it with professional constructive criticism and suggestions for improvement. If and when this campaign fails to get funded should we can worry about attempt #2.
 
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Tide27_sl

shitlord
124
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popsicledeath_sl said:
I don't think lowering the pledge sends the message people want. Brad is going to either figure shit out by listening to people he knows are critical, but often right about these things, or that he'll never get it. If you don't believe he'll ever get it, then pull your pledges and feel free to spare everyone the fucking emo press release.

For those of you who skipped all that shit and went for the summary: pulling a pledge when you really want the project to succeed will just help defeat the project and continue our self-fulfilling destiny as miserable gamers with nothing to play. At least stick it out until the actual GAME starts looking like shit.
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I don't agree. Pulling a pledge means that you do not like the direction it is going. This isn't a case of where you just have to accept whatever scraps are thrown your way. These developers need the consumer to foot the bill, not a publishing studio, and as such a consumer has a right to pull a pledge if they don't like the direction the game is going. Great case of put your money where your mouth is. If the developers release content that the supporters gobble up, then pledges rise....the release garbage like they have so far, and it falls. Pulling pledges works wonders and leaves no doubt that they aren't pulling the wool over anyones eyes at this point. I can toss a $10k pledge in as well, but until I see something that looks like they didn't come up with this idea over a late night beer, then I am not tossing in a dime.

Everquest came out at the right time and was the first of its kind for most people. However, everything Brad has done post Everquest has been garbage. Why should supporters believe in "the vision", when nothing he has done has done well. Factor in the fact that this Kickstarter is being run like fraggle rock, and there is little to no hope for anything good to come out of it.
 
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chantmaster

Lord Nagafen Raider
47
4
If i felt they were going all-in and really trying, I would for sure support a new kickstart project with Brad.
One of the advantages of kickstarter is that you can pledge again and again for free, as long as they dont deliver.

I did not pledge this time around, and the only way i could see me pledging at this point was if i saw a business plan i believed in and some hard-ass manager hired to control the project.

If the gathered Money is not to be pissed away, then either there need to be tons of enthusiasm from the devs, or a strong manager.

Thats the problem of crowd funding, you need to make the crowd believe that you wont piss away the funding.
 
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a_skeleton_03

<Banned>
29,948
29,762
Pulling your pledge is totally the way to show dissatisfaction with the project. The reason is because this is all theoretical funding until the last day.
 
Quineloe

Quineloe

Ahn'Qiraj Raider
6,978
4,463
How do you make your picture on KS show up?

and a_skeleton_03, stop justifying this shit. No one believes you had any intention of throwing 10k at this.

RRP the guy again.
 
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Troy_Costisick_sl

shitlord
437
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Catching up on the posts from last night...

Quaid_sl said:
Almost definitely. I'm honestly shocked they exercised such control with the number of classes, and focused down to what was really 'required'. Gives me hope that they intend to really make class roles defined and strong.
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That's actually a really good point, Quaid. Let's hope that they have thought about what challenges we will face in game and chose the classes to fit them.
 
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Troy_Costisick_sl

shitlord
437
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Arctic_Slicer_sl said:
If you assume the later is true then the former would have to be true as well. In Brad's Vanguard Post-Mortem posts he mentioned that the initial world size was too big and that they would have been better served by only focusing on making and optimizing one well designed continent instead of three.
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Yeah, I think the world will start with one continent, and that's okay. This is a different type of project from EQ or VG. The world can't be too huge because they don't have the budget for that. When it comes to continents/zones, I'd much rather them focus on making a few well designed ones than a lot of 'em which may or may not be designed well since they had so many to do.
 
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wanand

Bronze Knight of the Realm
281
28
Not really looked into Kickstarter much but from reading the last few pages I have a question.

If you Pledge to a kickstart that fails to meet their total fund target, do you get your money back or do they get to keep it and not launch a product?
 
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Troy_Costisick_sl

shitlord
437
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Wanand_sl said:
Not really looked into Kickstarter much but from reading the last few pages I have a question.

If you Pledge to a kickstart that fails to meet their total fund target, do you get your money back or do they get to keep it and not launch a product?
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Your credit card is ONLY charged IF the project successfully funds on the LAST day of the campaign. You don't have to worry about "losing" money or getting a "refund" because you are not charged unless the game garners enough support to meet its goal.
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Erronius

Erronius

Macho Ma'am
<Gold Donor>
16,491
42,462
Arctic_Slicer_sl said:
If you actually want an old EverQuest style game and actually want this project to succeed; how is it beneficial to not make a pledge, or worse make a pledge and then pull that pledge?
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To be blunt, Vanguard had the potential to be an amazing game, but Brad wasn't able to put the bun back in the oven and was forced to push it out the door in the state that it was in. No one questions whether or not Brad is capable of turning out a good game, the question was and will ever be whether or not the game will ship half-finished or not. That's my biggest fear and it will remain so because of the fact that no matter what Brad and Co says, funding isn't infinite and at some point if a backer refuses to keep funding further development then the game will have to ship, period.

Ergo, one worst-case scenario would be Brad getting the KS funding with less development finished than most would like, then leveraging that into getting the MMO funded, after which we get to wait and see if they can beat a deadline. Now with the track record of VG and the fact that this KS looked extremely rushed, the fear that we could end up seeing VG 2.0 is completely valid. If you need to allay fears that your game won't be another VG at release then a rushed and disorganized KS sends the wrong message.

Arctic_Slicer_sl said:
If you're worried this project wont get funded because of the bad kickstarter campaign then why pull your pledge since if it doesn't get funded you're not out anything.
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IfVisionary Realmsis worried that this project won't get funded because people pulled their pledges, then they can address people's concerns within the next 30 days and likely get most/all those pledges back.

I'd much rather see the game fail this KS and see them try again in 6mo-12mo with more work finished than see them squeak by now and push out a turd of a game that's half-finished. But then again I'm not emotionally invested in this either so the ardent pleading of fanboys to fund the game because this is (supposedly) the last chance for such a game (an argument we heard made with VG as well) falls on deaf ears.

Arctic_Slicer_sl said:
There are much more productive ways to go about this. Seriously try emailing Ben about your concerns or about what you would like to see; I have and got a reply back from to let me know that he agreed with many of the things that I wrote and that he would bring them up at tomorrow's meeting. These guys care about what we have to say and will lend an ear to what we have to say but only if we conduct ourselves in a professional and constructive manner.
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I'm not going to email anyone, and I'm DEFINITELY not going to bother emailing a motherfuckingPR MANAGER. And if they care about what their target playerbase wants then they can waddle their asses over here and read this thread and the thousands of posts in it. Brad is here and reads this thread, the rest of them can as well as far as I'm concerned.

If they want people to pledge their money then it's on them to impress us; it's not on us to fund them while blindly hoping that they make something decent. How people can even manage the convoluted mental gymnastics to arrive at the position that WE have to fund THEM instead of THEY needing to impress US first and foremost is beyond me, but a lot of people in this this thread have argued exactly that and they should feel bad for it, IMHO.
 
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Arctic_Slicer_sl

shitlord
155
0
Erronius_sl said:
To be blunt, Vanguard had the potential to be an amazing game, but Brad wasn't able to put the bun back in the oven and was forced to push it out the door in the state that it was in. No one questions whether or not Brad is capable of turning out a good game, the question was and will ever be whether or not the game will ship half-finished or not. That's my biggest fear and it will remain so because of the fact that no matter what Brad and Co says, funding isn't infinite and at some point if a backer refuses to keep funding further development then the game will have to ship, period.

Ergo, one worst-case scenario would be Brad getting the KS funding with less development finished than most would like, then leveraging that into getting the MMO funded, after which we get to wait and see if they can beat a deadline. Now with the track record of VG and the fact that this KS looked extremely rushed, the fear that we could end up seeing VG 2.0 is completely valid. If you need to allay fears that your game won't be another VG at release then a rushed and disorganized KS sends the wrong message.
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I'd rather play Vanguard 2.0 than another WoW clone. My friends and I all personally loved Vanguard for the first year or so despite the bugs and stability issues; what eventually drove us away from the game were all of the changes that SoE made to the game rather than addressing bugs. I also loved EverQuest and played that game through Omens of War and recently played it again the Vulak'Aerr progression server for about 2 years and had the time of my life. Even if they Pantheon did release with some bugs and stability issues; if it was an otherwise good game I'd be willing to stick it out.


Erronius_sl said:
If Visionary Realms is worried that this project won't get funded because people pulled their pledges, then they can address people's concerns within the next 30 days and likely get most/all those pledges back.

I'd much rather see the game fail this KS and see them try again in 6mo-12mo with more work finished than see them squeak by now and push out a turd of a game that's half-finished. But then again I'm not emotionally invested in this either so the ardent pleading of fanboys to fund the game because this is (supposedly) the last chance for such a game (an argument we heard made with VG as well) falls on deaf ears.
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My biggest worry with the campaign failing is that if they come back in a few months to a year is that people wont actually take them seriously and will just point out again and again that their last kickstarter failed so why back this one?
 
A

a_skeleton_03

<Banned>
29,948
29,762
Quineloe_sl said:
How do you make your picture on KS show up?

and a_skeleton_03, stop justifying this shit. No one believes you had any intention of throwing 10k at this.

RRP the guy again.
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Oh please, I spent 15k on bitcoin miners that I had written off as a loss and just got refunded. I was RRP'ed for a NSFW photo not my opinion on this game. EQ was how I started my gaming career and I was in a top 5 world guild so yeah I have a ton of love for EQ and would love to revisit that IF it is done correctly. This right now is a goddamn disaster and getting worse every day.

If Brad starts over better I will be right in the mix again. Not sure he can recover from it for this current kickstarter.
 
Vandyn

Vandyn

Blackwing Lair Raider
3,656
1,382
Arctic_Slicer_sl said:
I'd rather play Vanguard 2.0 than another WoW clone. My friends and I all personally loved Vanguard for the first year or so despite the bugs and stability issues; what eventually drove us away from the game were all of the changes that SoE made to the game rather than addressing bugs. I also loved EverQuest and played that game through Omens of War and recently played it again the Vulak'Aerr progression server for about 2 years and had the time of my life. Even if they Pantheon did release with some bugs and stability issues; if it was an otherwise good game I'd be willing to stick it out.




My biggest worry with the campaign failing is that if they come back in a few months to a year is that people wont actually take them seriously and will just point out again and again that their last kickstarter failed so why back this one?
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The thing is the group of people that want Vanguard 2.0 is a small minority and not enough to fund this kind of project. Else there would be a ton of people playing Vanguard. To many gamers including EQ vets, Vanguard is/was a horrible piece of garbage that was rushed out/mismanaged, etc. The people that are going to fund this game are those that truly believe he can design a game with the magic of EQ again. But there has been nothing to show any sort of that magic since the KS began. I mean, the only reason people are still backing this are in name only. Blind faith and hope only goes so far when there is nothing tangible to show. It takes more than being an dev of what was once a popular product to fund something 15 years later.
 
Falwell

Falwell

Who loves ya baby?
13
0
My pledge is still in and I probably won't pull it. However, the lack of preparation and foresight here is extremely disconcerting. If I can't trust these guys to look far enough ahead to anticipate many of these problems, how can I trust them to handle upwards of a million tender of our money?

If there had been more than mere surface research of past successful asks, much of this would have never occurred. That's extremely troubling.
 
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