Pan'Theon: Rise' of th'e Fal'Len - #1 Thread in MMO
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arallu
Golden Knight of the Realm
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DickTrickle
Definitely NOT Furor Planedefiler
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For 150 dollars I can buy 20 mounts or 40 illusionitems or whatever in Everquest. I guess you can not compare the two but I think the tiers in this KS are insane. Shiny like that loses its value quickly in any game, I do not think this will be different in Pantheon. If they went real old-school, they had you earn that shit in the game itself anyway. In EQ, when you had a fast mount, you were either a big moneymaker or a Raider. Even the slow horse was 10kpp which could still be a hurdle for a casual guy.
Anyway, I don't see the old school in Pantheon, I see the buzzwords but there is also contradictory stuff. They are not convincing me. Like saying that only Encs can do illusions. I am fine with that, but then do not give away mounts to everyone too, maybe make them Ranger only? Give me a reason to make a Ranger and feel special? Now there's something new that would get my attention.
Right now they are just grasping for the first old-school feature that comes in their mind so they can hold off the rabid KS hordes for another day, "Nono, only Encs can do illusions, you know, cuz that is their territory". It is like I am reading the EQ forums from 2003. Not good enough, guys.
DickTrickle
Definitely NOT Furor Planedefiler
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What exactly is the risk for Tom or Boogie to say, "hey, check this out!"? I mean, really. Is someone down the line going to be watching a Boogie video or having Tom come up with a new business and think, "You know, I'm not sure if I can trust this person -- they endorsed the Pantheon KS."
DickTrickle
Definitely NOT Furor Planedefiler
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Tom will fund pantheon, but in return every character will start with Tom on their Friendslist.
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So reading through the last few pages people are suggesting the tiers be different than and the new $25.00 tier is good, maybe they should offer better in game rewards, maybe the $250 +1 dollar lifetime is good, then again someone who can pledge $250 for a possible game might not be so worried about $15 a month. While these might be good ideas and helpful I don't know if it would make much difference. I think as a whole we all collectively agree the Kickstarter was poorly made. Thinking about Brad and being a positive or negative, or EQ, or even Vanguard is only really appealing to people like us who enjoy the industry and are passionate about gaming enough to follow a gaming site and offer our opinions on the subject. Again all of this is pretty captain obvious level stuff.
So take a step back for a second and try to think about this Kickstarter from the perspective of just any random person, not a rerolled member, not an old EQ player, not someone who knows Vanguard or Brad or any of that shit. If you first came to this page with no outside knowledge would it make sense to you? Would anything catch your attention and make you say ok "I will support this", and if you did reach the point of wanting to support it would you understand the tier offerings at first glance? We have been dissecting this game, the team, and everything else about Pantheon and we hardly understand it ourselves.
So take a step back for a second and try to think about this Kickstarter from the perspective of just any random person, not a rerolled member, not an old EQ player, not someone who knows Vanguard or Brad or any of that shit. If you first came to this page with no outside knowledge would it make sense to you? Would anything catch your attention and make you say ok "I will support this", and if you did reach the point of wanting to support it would you understand the tier offerings at first glance? We have been dissecting this game, the team, and everything else about Pantheon and we hardly understand it ourselves.
This is the thing that aggravates me more than anything. "No no, we don't want to take the steps necessary to make this Kickstarter successful. We're going to opperate under the impression we're the pre-release promotional period of our game." If they can't go all the way to make this thing happen, they don't deserve it. Running a Kickstarter takes guts. It's totally different from other business decisions they're used to making. If you don't lay it all out on the line, it won't succeed.
Mr Creed
Too old for this shit
- 2,380
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I agree that more swag to lure people towards several hundreds pledged is no solution. There need to be more backers, substantially more.
Taking myself as an example, I have no quarrel with Brad's past. I pledged $45 immediately (not more because first impression was the higher tiers are meh, so there's that too). I went to the $250 lifetime when it came out. So I was willing to throw money into the hat on the promise of the project, assuming they had put in the effort to make this campaign work. As the first week went on and passed it became more and more apparent that they have neither the drive, nor the ability, and not even some common sense to manage this kickstarter. I dropped down to $45 again. Not based on Brad's past failures, I was ok with that and put in the money. I withdrew it based on their current failure, which is this shitty kickstarter. Now substitute me (someone initially putting down $250 on faith in their ability to make and manage an MMO) for random_joe that *might* be interested. There's no way in hell he'll throw down $200+ and apparently even $100 or less are usually seen as wasted by the kickstarter visitors or the lower tiers would be sold out.
This needs more backers, and to get those they need two things. 1) Publicity to get people to the KS site and 2) a KS that tells the viewer "this project is interesting and the team behind has the passion and competence to see it through". And 1) will not work without 2), so work on that first and quickly. A certain percentage of your new backers will gravitate to the high tiers if they are convinced of the project, so more backers actually also means more higher pledges (stating the obvious, yea).
And while I didnt watch it, what everyone wrote about that live stream is pretty much today's confirmation that they are still sleepwalking through this. Nobody on the team had the awareness to say this:
Dungeon building is not really that thrilling or fast paced, it wouldnt make a good live stream. Instead, lets make a time lapse video of a dungeon or area coming together, we can shorten a whole day of dungeon building into a 5 minute video and overlay it was some interesting commentary.
I mean, didnt anyone of you think that even without being a business veteran just from messing with ANY map maker ever? But our last hope at VR didnt think of that? Mind, blown.
popsicledeath
Potato del Grande
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Rewards for pledges isn't supposed to be what motivates someone to pledge. It's a reward for someone who was going to give money anyhow. Or it's a way for people not completely sold to justify to themselves their pledge.
Nobody pledges three times as much as a DVD costs to get a program you're WATCHING at three times the cost. But, if you're a supporter of PBS and were going to pledge anyhow, or want to be a supporter, you now get to be rewarded for your interest.
Pledge rewards don't get new members interested in a project, they just reward those already interested. Sure, they can improve in some areas, because a current problem is people who are already interested are often reporting they're pledging less than they would be willing due to uninteresting tiers. But it's short sighted to think the problem with funding Pantheon is pledge rewards. It's getting more people interested and keeping those on the fence from becoming disinterested.
And no, the key to getting more people interested isn't just 'getting the word out' like they seem to think.
Nobody pledges three times as much as a DVD costs to get a program you're WATCHING at three times the cost. But, if you're a supporter of PBS and were going to pledge anyhow, or want to be a supporter, you now get to be rewarded for your interest.
Pledge rewards don't get new members interested in a project, they just reward those already interested. Sure, they can improve in some areas, because a current problem is people who are already interested are often reporting they're pledging less than they would be willing due to uninteresting tiers. But it's short sighted to think the problem with funding Pantheon is pledge rewards. It's getting more people interested and keeping those on the fence from becoming disinterested.
And no, the key to getting more people interested isn't just 'getting the word out' like they seem to think.
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You are right they need to lay it all on the line, but really things like enchanter skills, or in game swag, it's going to influence anyone but the hard core nerds, mainly those of us here. Pantheon has to appeal to people who maybe never played EQ or Vangaurd before.
Someone suggested a story about how they are bypassing the typical studio suits to build a game around not being a cash grab from consumers the way MMO's have become recently, something that can influence people on an emotional level or motivate them to support beyond the game itself.
I am choosing the other side of the fence. I have watched for the past 10 years of people complaining and bitching(for good reason) for a return to a game that has strong EQ influences. Am I stuck on nostalgia? No, otherwise I would be a hell of a lot more active on p99. All I am saying is, for the first time that I have seen, a game is being released for the people HERE.
You come up with extremely weak, and opinionated objections to the reveals of this project. (I.E. Undead race) Why is it even nonsense? Does it not fit into your niche, highly specific opinion on what an MMO should contain? This is really what's going to tip you over the edge? If this is the case, you clearly are not focusing on the real things that matter. What I am talking about here are the in game mechanisms that enhance social connectivity, immersion, challenge, and realism. These are the same things that made EQ so compelling.
And yeah, I will play the "hardcore mmo and carebear" card. Because frankly, I, like everyone else here want a fucking challenge and not to be force fed mayonnaise while shitting in my own bed.
Also, lore? Really? It seems arbitrary anyone would judge a game based off of it. Yes it is cool, but ultimately you play your class and come up with your own lore if you are the role playing type. A game gives us strong emotional and nostalgic experiences based on what we overcome within it and the connections we develop with other people in game. If a game is going to be released that supports this idea, or "Vision" if you will, then fuck it needs to be supported in hopes of reversing this disgusting trend that is infesting all of gaming. (Not only the MMO space)
So yes, don't let the door hit your ass. You're extreme lack of vision & philosophy on why you think this game will fail is insulting to people that have a logical thought process in this discussion. You are flaming something that has thepotentialto include the game design philosophies we all hold so dear from the past with a modern twang to them. I would pay to see it happen in the modern day even if it did take a shit.