The death penalty alone in EQ makes it more hardcore and challenging than what WOW has been or ever will be.
Pan'Theon: Rise' of th'e Fal'Len - #1 Thread in MMO
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But there was one thing that EQ had that none of these games had since. It punished failure. And sometimes it captured the feeling of real fear and with that when you suceeded the sense of reward was greater. So while you might have a harder time coordinating the 40, now 25, (some you dont even like, but you have to have them because your RL friends are cool but cannot execute) peeps into doing the perfect dance and jump routine around some goo on the ground. while executing the perfect button mash routine on their keyboards. The feeling is lost. Its now rinse and repeat, throw yourself at this until you corral all the dummys to execute perfectly. Nothing lost nothing gained. More gear? So you can try the next dance routine?
Somehow this genre went form coming up with a strategy to break into a camp or raid or whatever, to dancing. When the fuck and why the fuck did this happen?
Somehow this genre went form coming up with a strategy to break into a camp or raid or whatever, to dancing. When the fuck and why the fuck did this happen?
Flobee
Vyemm Raider
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WoW is seen as 'harder' due to mechanics and overall complexity. Actually, since any statement of 'x is harder than y' is going to be fairly objective you are going to have trouble justifying it but:
WoW
Required a shit ton more button pressing
(Eventually) required a significant level of communication and teamwork (EQ eventually did this as well, to a lesser degree)
This relates to button pressing, but the rotations/priority systems could become pretty complex for dps/tanking
Movement based encounters fucking blew peoples minds (stop standing in the fire)
etc..
I'm sure im missing some. Like was said earlier EQ punished you much more severely for mistakes, but mechanically speaking WoW was more challenging. Which was 'harder' overall? Fuck if I know, MMO's have never really been that hard
Skanda
I'm Amod too!
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Pretty much this. It was hilarious to see how awful some MMO players were when it came to not simply clicking cheal chains for an entire raid. Some eq vets I know simply could not learn the simplest "stop standing in the fire, christ" kind of stuff.
Exp loss was a timesink. But the mechanics of wow raids were more challenging.
Bruman
Golden Squire
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GUYS DAMMIT NO, DO NOT START THIS! STOP IT NOW WHILE YOU CAN! AAAHHHHH!!!
It wasn't just raiding, WoW had some genuinely hard 5 man content. At release, it could be done in up to 40 man groups (later 10 man max), but to do the quests you had to do it in a 5 man group.
To give you an example, I played a healer (druid). My healer had a big slow heal and a weak heal over time. The other heals were too mana inefficient to use. There were no guides explaining how to play the game at the time, but I/we quickly figured out that it was too risky to let someone drop to low health and then use the big heal on them, because even against an average pull a tank could lose 50% of his health in the time it takes to cast the heal. So you had to use lower ranks of the heal which cost less mana and chain cast them to keep the tank full. That meant predicting how much damage the tank would take in the next 3.5 seconds and selecting a rank that would not waste mana. While doing that you obviously wanted to be watching who else was likely to get hit etc. A poorly geared max level healer would otherwise just run out of mana if things did not go perfectly, and which crowd control having a periodic chance to break, patrolling monsters in a close environment etc, things went wrong often.
It just had a much higher skill ceiling than EQ.
Hardcore is relative imo.
If everything revolves around the end game. then WOW was by far the roughest MMO.
EQ's end game was pretty retarded, and the only reason people even had trouble is because they weren't used to playing games like that ever.
If people were to play EQ today like it was a new game they would destroy everything within a few days.
People have rose colored glasses when they think back on that game. It was not hardcore.
If everything revolves around the end game. then WOW was by far the roughest MMO.
EQ's end game was pretty retarded, and the only reason people even had trouble is because they weren't used to playing games like that ever.
If people were to play EQ today like it was a new game they would destroy everything within a few days.
People have rose colored glasses when they think back on that game. It was not hardcore.
arallu
Golden Knight of the Realm
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Hey, maybe we're getting a CEO finally lol:
Rod Humble, CEO of Linden Lab for the past three years, officially announced via Facebook that he has left the company. Humble has worked on both The Sims and EverQuest, pretty much exactly the two games that you would think could be mashed together into Second Life. Linden Lab has not issued a statement about Humble's replacement at this time.
Rod Humble, CEO of Linden Lab for the past three years, officially announced via Facebook that he has left the company. Humble has worked on both The Sims and EverQuest, pretty much exactly the two games that you would think could be mashed together into Second Life. Linden Lab has not issued a statement about Humble's replacement at this time.
And guys who play FPS games exclusively watch this thread and say "lol this guy thinks mmos are hard omg lololololrofllol" and then the RTS guy laughs at the FPS guy and some guy with a different hobby laughs at him while being somehow dismissed by someone else.
Convo
Ahn'Qiraj Raider
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Well honestly WoW should of been harder. Now with the use of instances in basically every encounter, it allowed them more freedom to control and scrpit encounters like EQ could not. Natural progression. EQ was the first 3D mud to have raids right? And in the beginning it wasnt even the focus. It was focused around group play. Even through Kunark it was still a predominantly group focused game. It was when velious hit where they actually made entire zones committed to raiding.
But EQ was an endurance game. Not that that was good or bad, but those which endured and had the most playtime reaped the most reward. And im kind of glad that at least that part of MMOs changed.
But EQ was an endurance game. Not that that was good or bad, but those which endured and had the most playtime reaped the most reward. And im kind of glad that at least that part of MMOs changed.
I never got very far in WOW as it just didnt appeal to me, but I did raid in early eq and in VG. EQ was tedious, not hard. WOW was less tedious over all. I wouldn't classify any mmo as HARD really. Having said that I would say the VG raids were probably just as difficult as WOW based on what I have heard abot wow raids. For example, Hegnarian had the whole telegraph thing where the spots on the floor would have the blue flames so you had to move or die. THis wasnt even a raid really, just a boss mob in a 45+ dungeon.
Then there was APW which is probably one of the best Raid dungeons ever designed. Many boss mobs that had their own ways of being taken down. Some were standard tank and spank while others required more thought. Over all though once you figured out the strat and were able to coordinate your guild, it became rather easy which is true of just about any MMO out there I would say.
I think the only way a raid encounter could be difficult would for it to be totally random, not scripted because anythign that is scripted essentially has a pattern, once you figure out that pattern you can figure out how to defeat the mob easily.
Nemesis
Bridgeburner
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does it appear to anyone else that in the revenant race description, each paragraph was intended to be the sole paragraph?
to me, they read like drafts v1 and v2 that someone forgot to consolidate
not to mention, the whole thing is just lore... no actual meat like: "as the living dead, the revenant race is strongly suited to dark magics and less effective at healing and beneficial spells" or something like that.
give me some FLAVOR, not just pulp lore about people, wars, and contextless shit that happened that i don't give a gadamn about
to me, they read like drafts v1 and v2 that someone forgot to consolidate
not to mention, the whole thing is just lore... no actual meat like: "as the living dead, the revenant race is strongly suited to dark magics and less effective at healing and beneficial spells" or something like that.
give me some FLAVOR, not just pulp lore about people, wars, and contextless shit that happened that i don't give a gadamn about
Bruman
Golden Squire
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Interesting that compared to yesterday it has the same amount of backers, but only a little over half of the money pledged. I wonder if like a $3k person backed out.