Pan'Theon: Rise' of th'e Fal'Len - #1 Thread in MMO

DickTrickle

DickTrickle

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Black_Death_sl said:
So what if they do? I would fully expect them to do exactly this just to release whatever funds had been raised by the kickstarter. They aren't going to be overt about it (ie, creating a $200k Visionary Realms donation tier), but it is still in their best interests to get this thing funded even if that means floating their own credit to do so.
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But then that invalidates the reason they're doing the KS. If they have to donate $200k, then that means there wasn't enough interest (for whatever reasons). It means other investors should stay away because it failed to meet that goal.
 
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Lysis

N00b
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Aradune_sl said:
We have indeed talked about what we will be doing post-Kickstarter, in various interviews, and on the FAQ:

Doesn't it take more than $800k to make an MMO?

Yes it does. Our intent for this Kickstarter is first to prove that there's enough of a demand for a group focused game that believes in the experience of the game instead of handholding, and to get the ball rolling on development. If we can get to the goal we will have proved that and will have enough to get this game started and be able to get our studio set up and operational. If we only get to the goal and little more, then we will visit other funding opportunities but first and foremost we wanted to make it possible to be completely crowdfunded so that you, the players, have more to do with what goes into the game than other powers would should we need to turn to those options later.

So VC, Angel investors, and publishers. And quite possibly more crowd funding as well.
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As a skeptic on the fence, this does not assure me at all. Especially because VR came to the KS table so unprepared. Your group does not appear to have its act together.

I think you have to realize that your past doesn't disappear just because you want it to. There's a lot of once-burned people who want to support you again, but you have to do a much better job overcoming our objections. For me, that means being organized,concise, and with better evidence you can execute.
 
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a_skeleton_03

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How I Ran a Successfully Funded Kickstarter Project in Just One Month (Part 4 of 6) | Amy Leigh Strickland

In case you didn't read the FAQ on Kickstarter, we'll say it here. DO NOT BACK YOUR OWN KICKSTARTER PROJECT. Why? The credit card companies see paying yourself as an attempt to give yourself a cash advance. Therefore, Amazon will shut down your payments account if it detects a payment to you, from you. Imagine raising $8,000 and then being locked out of ALL OF IT because you gave yourself $5.
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Black_Death

Golden Knight of the Realm
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DickTrickle_sl said:
But then that invalidates the reason they're doing the KS. If they have to donate $200k, then that means there wasn't enough interest (for whatever reasons). It means other investors should stay away because it failed to meet that goal.
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"Wasn't enough interest" is such a completely arbitrary measure. If you've got 6000 people raising 600k, would having another 2000 people show interest really mean that much? Games have historically been made in a vacuum with millions of dollars pumped into them before they are even announced. Where's the interest for those?
 
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Merlin_sl

shitlord
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lysis_sl said:
As a skeptic on the fence, this does not assure me at all. Especially because VR came to the KS table so unprepared. Your group does not appear to have its act together.

I think you have to realize that your past doesn't disappear just because you want it to. There's a lot of once-burned people who want to support you again, but you have to do a much better job overcoming our objections. For me, that means being organized,concise, and with better evidence you can execute.
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You haven't had one positive thing to say about this project or the kickstarter. Why are you even here?
 
Tmac

Tmac

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Aradune_sl said:
If we can get to the goal we will have proved that and will have enough to get this game started and be able to get our studio set up and operational. If we only get to the goal and little more, then we will visit other funding opportunities but first and foremost we wanted to make it possible to be completely crowdfunded so that you, the players, have more to do with what goes into the game than other powers would should we need to turn to those options later.
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So, in your own words, this Kickstarter is less about making a complete game and more about buying office space?

Seems legit.
 
DickTrickle

DickTrickle

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Black_Death_sl said:
"Wasn't enough interest" is such a completely arbitrary measure. If you've got 6000 people raising 600k, would having another 2000 people show interest really mean that much? Games have historically been made in a vacuum with millions of dollars pumped into them before they are even announced. Where's the interest for those?
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It's not arbitrary. They designated 800k. They chose it. If it fails to get there, then it failed by the definition they set.
 
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a_skeleton_03

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mkopec_sl said:
There is ways around that though. Give the money to your cousin Freddie and have him pledge it. Or your best friend Mike, whatever.....
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Yeah but we are talking about Brad who up until a month ago probably hadn't heard of Kickstarter. He could very easily make this mistake.
 
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Black_Death

Golden Knight of the Realm
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DickTrickle_sl said:
It's not arbitrary. They designated 800k. They chose it. If it fails to get there, then it failed by the definition they set.
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I get that, but when they are sitting on a $600k check with no strings attached, they are going to find a way to get that check into their hands. I am sure they have convinced themselves that there are enough people interested in the game to satisfy their arbitrary metric that they are going to at least get through this initial round of funding.
 
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Lysis

N00b
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Merlin_sl said:
You haven't had one positive thing to say about this project or the kickstarter. Why are you even here?
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Sure I have. I have said I want this game to happen.

I participate in this thread because it's extremely interesting to me. I tend to discuss things interesting to me. I'm not always positive about topics interesting to me. Pretty shocking, huh?
 
Convo

Convo

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a_skeleton_03_sl said:
Yeah but we are talking about Brad who up until a month ago probably hadn't heard of Kickstarter. He could very easily make this mistake.
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I think he said it was like a year ago. And you're right.. I could see a lot of people making that mistake, actually.
 
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Irongut_sl

shitlord
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DickTrickle_sl said:
It's not arbitrary. They designated 800k. They chose it. If it fails to get there, then it failed by the definition they set.
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Unless there is already some VC lined up on the side, promising to a certain dollar value and we'll see this getting funded no matter what. Shady but savvy.

If they pulled 800K out of thin air, then I doubt they know what they're doing and the rest is just hot air... and I would agree that they failed.
 
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a_skeleton_03

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Convo_sl said:
I think he said it was like a year ago. And you're right.. I could see a lot of people making that mistake, actually.
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Yeah I like to harass Brad but it would be an easy mistake for any fledgling company to make. Even an established company might not know the murky waters of crowdfunding.
 
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Black_Death

Golden Knight of the Realm
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Convo_sl said:
I think he said it was like a year ago. And you're right.. I could see a lot of people making that mistake, actually.
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I feel pretty confident that this sort of thing is a daily occurrence on Kickstarter. Clearly we need to set up a service that will allow people to funnel money into their projects "anonymously" to screw over (potentially) the other backers.
 
Tmac

Tmac

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DickTrickle_sl said:
But then that invalidates the reason they're doing the KS. If they have to donate $200k, then that means there wasn't enough interest (for whatever reasons). It means other investors should stay away because it failed to meet that goal.
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The real problem here, is that Brad's selling a "complete game" to the crowdfunders. Which, as he just pointed out himself, is a lie.

Lemme esplain.

It helps a lot when you can raise any capital at all. That proves to other VC's that you have the capacity to raise money, which validates your idea in a sense. Only asking for half the money you need is yet another strategy for getting funding.

Let's say you need to raise $1m. If you ask for $1m and only raise $200,000, it tells other investors that you're having trouble raising capital. However, if you ask for $500,000 and raise $200,000, then when you go to investors, you've already got half of your funding. It looks better, it feels better and more investors will be willing to give more. 50% of funds raised looks a lot better than 20% raised.

So, his strategy isn't off the norm, but when mix in crowdsourcing as the primary source, you cross some incredibly muddy water. Especially when you don't intend to raise all the capital crowdsourcing.
 
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delirium_sl

shitlord
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Tmac47_sl said:
The real problem here, is that Brad's selling a "complete game" to the crowdfunders. Which, as he just pointed out himself, is a lie.
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Actually he has mentioned on several occasions that this kickstarter is to get them an office, etc. Agreed its misleading because all the KS talks about is the game they want to make. But lets face it, do you really think anyone would pledge if all they talked about were the copiers, computers, and desk chairs they were gonna get with the KS money?
 
Tmac

Tmac

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Aradune_sl said:
We have indeed talked about what we will be doing post-Kickstarter, in various interviews, and on the FAQ:

Doesn't it take more than $800k to make an MMO?

Yes it does. Our intent for this Kickstarter is first to prove that there's enough of a demand for a group focused game that believes in the experience of the game instead of handholding, and to get the ball rolling on development. If we can get to the goal we will have proved that and will have enough to get this game started and be able to get our studio set up and operational. If we only get to the goal and little more, then we will visit other funding opportunities but first and foremost we wanted to make it possible to be completely crowdfunded so that you, the players, have more to do with what goes into the game than other powers would should we need to turn to those options later.

So VC, Angel investors, and publishers. And quite possibly more crowd funding as well.
Click to expand...
To summarize.

This Kickstarter is a proof-of-concept to other investors and a way to buy office space.

If you reach the goal on the Kickstarter, which should deliver a complete game, you're going to visit other funding opportunities to actually get the money needed for a complete game. However, you wanted to get completely crowdfunded (while saying that you were going to get more capital anyways), so that players could have more say in game development.

You're essentially promising a complete game to the people investing now, with no intent to deliver a complete game with the money they invest.
 
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