Pan'Theon: Rise' of th'e Fal'Len - #1 Thread in MMO

Heallun

Lord Nagafen Raider
1,100
1,073
The formula for aggro generation from weapon swings in EverQuest has always been weapon damage+weapon damage bonus; for example a Blade of Carnage had 15 damage and 13 damage bonus at level 60 which means it would generate 28 hate ever swing, ripostes count as swings double attacks count as two swings, etc. Damage bonus only applied for weapons in the primary slot; weapons in the secondary slot always had a damage bonus of 0 which means that a Blade of Carnage being wielded in the off hand would only generate 15 hate every swing. Also the hate is generated from the swing itself and isn't affected by the damage dealt which means that a miss would generate the same hate as a max damage critical hit. Also they didn't change the formula in Velious; what they did was change the power of the 2 hand weapons that droped in Temple of Veeshan to have significantly more power than they initially did which as a result made them generate more aggro. For example when Velious first launched the Palladus' Axe of Slaughter was a 40dmg 42dly weapon; it was later changed to be a 51dmg, 42dly weapon. At level 60 the Palladus' Axe of Slaughter would have damage bonus of 34 which made it generate 74 hate per swing originally and a very respectable 85 hate per swing after changes.

The true story is that dual wield actually sucked and wasn't very good at generating hate; wasn't very good at doing DPS and had the bad side effect of exposing the warrior to extra damage from mob ripostes and damage shields. Sure a warrior could wield 2 weapons with hate procs but the proc rate at 205-255 dexterity only allowed their primary weapon to proc an average of 1.5 times per minute(about once every 40 seconds) and their off hand weapon to proc a measly .75 times a minute(about once every 80 seconds); making any supposed bonus from the extra procs pretty much irrelevant. The exception of course is the the Bloodfrenzy which had a proc rate bonus that allowed it's hate proc to happen far more often than the normal 1.5 times per minute(.75 times per minute in off hand) that every other weapon before it was restricted to; finally giving warriors a weapon that was actually worth dual wielding. However Bloodfrenzy was a rare drop off of a mob with a 6 day spawn timer so very few warriors had it making 2 handers the weapon of choice for all but the luckiest warriors(or warriors too stupid to understand the mechanics of the game and insisted on dual wielding anyway).

Furor might have bemoaned the fact that "a warrior was only as good as his weapon" but that is one of the features I actually liked about the warrior because I loved the mathematics behind what made particular weapons better than others. Even a non-raider could buy an Argent Protector(42dmg, 49dly) from the bazaar for a few thousand platinum and hold aggro just fine in groups; without causing the DPS to drop off significantly. Aggro management in EverQuest was a shared responsibility which is something that I always liked and something that has been sorely lacking in games since.



I did this all of the time as well and could often get people not flagged lfg to come and join me and was able to make many friends that way. Forming groups was never hard in EverQuest unless you were unwilling to put in the limited amount of effort required to do so.
Hategiver also had that modified procrate. Combined with the AAs (especially area taunt for confident tank switches) it was a good time to be a warrior in luclin :p
 

etchazz

Trakanon Raider
2,707
1,056
i can't believe this lfg discussion has been going on for damn near 50 pages. is it really that big of a deal? have a LFG tool, make it limited to a local area in the game, no insta ports to meeting stones or anything dumb like that, and bam, problem solved. i don't see what the big deal is. EQ implemented a LFG channel and i personally much prefer that to hearing someone shout or /ooc "level 50 war LFG" every two fucking minutes.
 

Big Flex

Fitness Fascist
4,314
3,166
i can't believe this lfg discussion has been going on for damn near 50 pages. is it really that big of a deal? have a LFG tool, make it limited to a local area in the game, no insta ports to meeting stones or anything dumb like that, and bam, problem solved. i don't see what the big deal is. EQ implemented a LFG channel and i personally much prefer that to hearing someone shout or /ooc "level 50 war LFG" every two fucking minutes.
Ben: "Brad, we're getting some really bad PR from these Rerolled forums. They've been talking shit for days, non-stop, and a lot of people lurk these forums."

Brad: "I know, it's like a fucking shark tank in there, but what do we do?"

Ben: "Umm, give them something to talk about, like a dungeon finder tool or something, idk, just to quiet down the negative press."

Brad: "Great idea. That should keep them busy. I'll come by maybe once a day, skim a post, reply to it to keep the pot stirred, then never return again when the crowd funding campaign is over."
 

Gecko_sl

shitlord
1,482
0
i can't believe this lfg discussion has been going on for damn near 50 pages. is it really that big of a deal? have a LFG tool, make it limited to a local area in the game, no insta ports to meeting stones or anything dumb like that, and bam, problem solved. i don't see what the big deal is. EQ implemented a LFG channel and i personally much prefer that to hearing someone shout or /ooc "level 50 war LFG" every two fucking minutes.
I can't either. The bigger tragedy will be if this game gets funded and half the idiot, tedious ideas promoted in this thread get implemented.

LFG tools are a good thing. Making groups wait for 45 minutes so they can all run over terrain they've done frequently before is not good design. Summoning should be doable. Think of it like magic. This is a fantasy world. Create stones at places that allow summoning, a la Rift.

I enjoyed recently playing on P99, and I loved EQ the first time around, but so many things people are pining for in this thread really make me cringe. I think 50% of the population plays P99 due to friends and anger at having missed so much the first time around. The other 50% plays casually to screw around in the perfect AD&D world that EQ was prior to expansionitis. I think that casual 50% is what Parthenon should be aiming towards. They generally wouldn't mind LFG tools and other UI enhancements to make the game better. They just don't want a themepark.

When EQ was created, I think it was a world and design they wanted. As most of us are older, and as games have evolved, so should the game. Remake that open, sandbox AD&D themed world but make it with more content, more fun, and remove the tedious aspects that serve no purpose except for allowing the masochistic to reminisce how hard they had it, and how it built character.
 

Dahkoht_sl

shitlord
1,658
0
I can't either. The bigger tragedy will be if this game gets funded and half the idiot, tedious ideas promoted in this thread get implemented.

LFG tools are a good thing. Making groups wait for 45 minutes so they can all run over terrain they've done frequently before is not good design. Summoning should be doable. Think of it like magic. This is a fantasy world. Create stones at places that allow summoning, a la Rift.

I enjoyed recently playing on P99, and I loved EQ the first time around, but so many things people are pining for in this thread really make me cringe. I think 50% of the population plays P99 due to friends and anger at having missed so much the first time around. The other 50% plays casually to screw around in the perfect AD&D world that EQ was prior to expansionitis. I think that casual 50% is what Parthenon should be aiming towards. They generally wouldn't mind LFG tools and other UI enhancements to make the game better. They just don't want a themepark.

When EQ was created, I think it was a world and design they wanted. As most of us are older, and as games have evolved, so should the game. Remake that open, sandbox AD&D themed world but make it with more content, more fun, and remove the tedious aspects that serve no purpose except for allowing the masochistic to reminisce how hard they had it, and how it built character.
UI lfg tools yes , but going to summoning stone to jump all around to dungeons no. Those are two different things. You can have a UI lfg tool that helps groups form without having to put in summoning.

I still very much want the world to matter.

Porting and instant travel should be done by class abilities , again making certain classes that have certain things that others want but they can't do, and vice versa.

Making a stone for everyone to hang out at and jump around the world is the last thing I want to see in a game geared to old school things like this.
 

Hmerly

Golden Knight of the Realm
113
1
If you want instant teleports to your groups and easy assembly and a world that feels tiny, with no one interacting then go ahead and play WoW. This game is niche. It is targeted. They are not making a game for everyone. If it doesn't suit you, dont play it when it comes out. Asking for the crap that so called modern MMOs have decided to implement in the hopes of making things more convenient is the exact opposite of most of us here want. We don't want just another game, we want an experience similar to original EQ, where things had consequence, where we made friends daily, where people had real reputations, and the game world felt more like a social world, instead of just another game.
 

Merlin_sl

shitlord
2,329
1
You'd also probably be bitching if I quoted your whole dumb post just to make one sentence pointing out how dumb it was. Just because you say you're fine with something, or even if I agree, doesn't mean the point you were making wasn't dumb.

And I'm not saying you're dumb. Just the dumb point you were making for some dumb reason.
The dumb point I was making was acknowledging Dumar's point of view and trying to expand on it. I can see why he has concern over a LFG tool. Just trying to step outside the box and see things from a different perspective. I do the same thing with your posts, or UT's or hell, for awhile I was trying to with Khane's. But then I gave up because all of his posts are overly critical of every single idea about the game.
 

Dahkoht_sl

shitlord
1,658
0
I think the balance for a game geared like this in my opinion is a very basic UI tool that helps in getting groups together but zero auto grouping, and zero porting. Just something a little easier to form a group , that still makes people talk inside that group and travel to where they need to go.

Just something that make the lfg in chat only a little easier ,but in no way makes the world smaller and does nothing "automated".
 

Merlin_sl

shitlord
2,329
1
Whats the general consensus over having a "Isle of Dawn" or starting newbie zone? I used to be opposed to it but now I'm not so sure. You do your first five levels or so in the zone, learn the basics, see how the game works then when you ding level "x", you get transported to your starting city. Would also foster community as you would meet the players from every race and faction and possibly make friends. Then when they head to say, Neriak and you head off to Qeynos, you know you can meet up with them later on in the game.
 

Quineloe

Ahn'Qiraj Raider
6,978
4,463
Whats the general consensus over having a "Isle of Dawn" or starting newbie zone? I used to be opposed to it but now I'm not so sure. You do your first five levels or so in the zone, learn the basics, see how the game works then when you ding level "x", you get transported to your starting city. Would also foster community as you would meet the players from every race and faction and possibly make friends. Then when they head to say, Neriak and you head off to Qeynos, you know you can meet up with them later on in the game.
I really like the idea for a couple of reasons. You already mentioned a more populated starting area, but it also frees up content around the cities. If your actual live game doesn't have to have any content below level 5, that allows for a much better world imo than having a shitty level 1 starting zone around EVERY city.
 

Dulldain_sl

shitlord
210
0
Whats the general consensus over having a "Isle of Dawn" or starting newbie zone?
Make Gfay about three/four times as big, put Kaladim, Ak'Anon, and a human starting city attached to the zone, then do the same on the other end of the world for the other races and I would be ok with it.
 

Aeiouy_sl

shitlord
217
0
I do agree it would have helped if the formulae were a bit more transparent though not to the point that some games do where every last detail of everything is spelled out; I actually liked that EverQuest gave players an opportunity to apply their arithmetic skills to help improve their gameplay. I don't want them to put stuff like "this weapon does this much DPS" or "generates this much hate" right in the weapon description; make players do the maths themselves.
I agree with you. I don't want weapons to contain advanced metric formulations. Basic info, players can work it out. You should not necessarily know the best weapon for all circumstances by looking at two calculated numbers on the weapon description.
 

etchazz

Trakanon Raider
2,707
1,056
UI lfg tools yes , but going to summoning stone to jump all around to dungeons no. Those are two different things. You can have a UI lfg tool that helps groups form without having to put in summoning.

I still very much want the world to matter.

Porting and instant travel should be done by class abilities , again making certain classes that have certain things that others want but they can't do, and vice versa.

Making a stone for everyone to hang out at and jump around the world is the last thing I want to see in a game geared to old school things like this.
i agree. i do not want summoning stones at all. they're a stupid idea. then your game is nothing more than a lobby game and the actual world doesn't matter. if you're in one area of the world, and there are 3 or 4 dungeons/outside areas in your level range, then you can stay there and group with the people in that area for however long you feel like being there. if there is another dungeon around your level range that is on the other side of the world, you shouldn't be able to just have a person in a group in that dungeon port you there, you should have to pack up your tent, and travel to that other part of the world. even as a wizard in EQ, if i was in mistmoore hanging out, and someone wanted me to come group with them in guk, i knew it was going to take me a while to get there if i wanted to go, and i was fine with that. that's why EQ felt so massive all the time, and why so many people stuck to certain areas for longer periods. that's how friendships are made. that's how communities are made.
 

Vandyn

Blackwing Lair Raider
3,653
1,378
Pretty slow day today in terms of funding. Outside of class reveals have they said of anything else coming up?

I still think this notion of getting the information out in drips and drabs is hurting more than helping the project.
 

mkopec

<Gold Donor>
25,399
37,481
Ben: "Brad, we're getting some really bad PR from these Rerolled forums. They've been talking shit for days, non-stop, and a lot of people lurk these forums."

Brad: "I know, it's like a fucking shark tank in there, but what do we do?"

Ben: "Umm, give them something to talk about, like a dungeon finder tool or something, idk, just to quiet down the negative press."

Brad: "Great idea. That should keep them busy. I'll come by maybe once a day, skim a post, reply to it to keep the pot stirred, then never return again when the crowd funding campaign is over."
Haha, thats exactly what I was thinking, bro. Great minds think alike. Brads trolled us all like a OG.
 

Vandyn

Blackwing Lair Raider
3,653
1,378
Whats the general consensus over having a "Isle of Dawn" or starting newbie zone? I used to be opposed to it but now I'm not so sure. You do your first five levels or so in the zone, learn the basics, see how the game works then when you ding level "x", you get transported to your starting city. Would also foster community as you would meet the players from every race and faction and possibly make friends. Then when they head to say, Neriak and you head off to Qeynos, you know you can meet up with them later on in the game.
I dunno, EQ2 had the exact same thing. Nobody communicated at all on the island in my experience (back when it launched).
 

arallu

Golden Knight of the Realm
536
47
Pretty slow day today in terms of funding. Outside of class reveals have they said of anything else coming up?
Vu's going to stream again this evening:
"After his first taste of show business, Vu is hungry for more. Tonight he'll be making his second appearance on the Rob and Dan show to show more of his work on Pantheon. With him will be more members of the Visionary Realms team to give more details about the game and answer your questions.
Be sure to tune in to theRob & Dan showtoday at 4pm PST / 7pm EST to check it out."

Oh and Brad's going to do another AMA, asking for suggested times in the Update #34 comments section.
 

Merlin_sl

shitlord
2,329
1
Starting to get close to crunch time and this thing is barely creeping along. Were not even at 50% yet. Not looking good.
 

mkopec

<Gold Donor>
25,399
37,481
^^^No its not... We need to be hitting like 25-50K per day here....

People switching their tiers around.