Big Flex
Fitness Fascist
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hahahah, hey it at least it has a King's Landing rip offFirst map of Celestius
and you thought they were using napkins.
Pan'Theon: Rise' of th'e Fal'Len - #1 Thread in MMO
- Thread starter gogojira_sl
- Start date
Vandyn
Blackwing Lair Raider
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The best he's going to be able to do is put out some prototype/tech demo. Then he has to hope that drums up more interest. My opinion is there is zero chance this is completely crowdfunded. I'd be shocked if it was even 50% crowdfunded. I understand that EQ cost only 3 million to make, but that was also 1998-1999 costs.
Khane
Got something right about marriage
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I don't how possible it is to create "chess like" raiding. You've got to work with AI and players will figure out how to exploit that. I'm sure it will be done in the future but not in this game, not on this budget. Tad you mentioned AV as an example. The problem with that example is AV was PvP. PvP is the chess of MMO gaming because you're playing against free thinking individuals who can change strategy or try to bait and switch on the fly.
Heallun
Lord Nagafen Raider
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WoW through TBC was a raging erection the entire time. Even WOTLK was good until the ToC patch. Really marked a huge turning point in how they wanted to design the game
Kirun
Buzzfeed Editor
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There was nothing "chess-like" about EQ's raid encounters. It just gave you the appearance that you were "improvising", because you could throw almost any 60 retards at an encounter and win. The only barrier of entry to raiding in EQ, was how much time you had available/how locked down a server's spawns were(directly related to time available).
Convo
Ahn'Qiraj Raider
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This conversation has been going on since 2007... Tad isn't even a raider lol.. I personally miss the flexibility EQ offered.. It allowed for players like you to make mistakes and for guys like tad and I to make up for it!?;-)
tad10
Elisha Dushku
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At least you had a choice. Metaphor sticks. As to your other point I don't know if an AI can be built that doesn't crush and can respond semi-dynamically. But doesn't seem immediately impossible. Maybe storybricks?
@convo lol
Convo
Ahn'Qiraj Raider
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I don't know.. EQN will have smart bosses.. I think? Storybricks will be the reason.. Unless SoE just built their own AI along side it.. Bosses will go after heals and shit first.
Convo
Ahn'Qiraj Raider
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Looks like they are going back to it. Will be interesting to see how players handle it
Convo
Ahn'Qiraj Raider
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I don't know. EQN is designed different with the way classes are setup and how you can use the actual world during the fight lol. I just know the AI in bosses will be looking to do stuff like that. Let's see how SoE deals with the complaints
Well if cost 3 million dollars in 1999 but it was made with no real tools and a team that had no idea as to what they were doing. Tool advancement alone would allow for a massive increase in efficiency over 1999.
So in 2014 dollars we are looking at 4.2 million dollars. Given the increased efficiency I think a comparable game could probably be made for close to the same price.
Problem is developers know too much now and the genre has expanded so much. In 1999 as they tripped over their dicks they were trying to do as much as possible. In 2014 you would have to actively leave out or ignore 80% of what you know. That is why it can jig really happen.
I think a similar scale game in 2014 could be made for 8-10 million if they had an amazing money producer who kept them on point and deadline.
The problem is will a project where devs are told to ignore their knowledge, experience and ideas just become a soulless mess, even if it hits its budget?
This is one of the issues I have been pondering between the pantheon and eqn crews and experience is touted left and right. Perhaps inexperience in making mmogs is what is needed at this point to get it right. The experienced developers know all the pitfalls so they drive way around them. This leads to everything being too safe and too sterile.
We talk about the great experience of eq but that was a group of relatively clueless people. What if the dev team for the original eq was a group of veterans with 5-15 years experience? Is there any chance that eq is not horrible?
Unfortunately business never goes backwards, even creative ones. It will literally take six dumb fucks with no experience in a basement to make the next big thing. As they will the only ones making the mistakes that turn into magic.
My favorite thing about eq was parts of it made zero sense and you could feel parts where the devs were fucking around or not sure where they were going. Since then it has been money money money where every development dime must be accounted for. No games have that feeling like "damn the devs must have just been trying shit out here".
With the budget constraints for pantheon I hear too many things that I know are going to add up to a lot. Every backer has the one little thing that is going to cost another 50k in development.
To me the game needs to be SUPER BARE BONES but highly polished. That might not lead to a successful outcome but it still feels like the only viable route. Mounts, auction houses, crafting , my beloved pvp all of it should be out for launch.
The game should solely focus on pve group adventuring for launch. That means the classes are extremely well done. It means combat is top notch. High quality hunting areas and dungeons, great itemization.
Honestly every update/article/answer I see I tell myself half of that stuff should not be a focus for release. To me all stretch goals should 100% post release. I just feel like the game needs to be laser focused and limited to deliver in a handful of areas.
If you can launch that then everything else can be added on after launch. Otherwise even if it gets made we will just have an example of a 5 million dollar mmog that tries to do everything. Anyone care to guess what that looks like?
Literally the only goals for a player at launch should be, where am I going to kill and what am I going to kill?
I strongly believe that the key to success for Brad & co. is to keep everything simple at launch. Feature bloat and gimmicks have replaced great gameplay and world building.
There should be a deep, interesting, well built world with a fun, simple, and tightly controlled combat system. The combat being tight, responsive, and addictive is absolutely imperative. Nothing is more important than the actual gameplay! The world should be filled with unique, rare, and meaningful loot, both overland and in dungeons of various levels, so that players have self made goals to achieve as they level.
Intricate quests, crafting, PvP, and even AA advancement could all be designed into the game, but not necessarily implemented until they are fine tuned and well polished. Plan for these systems in advance, but implement only when perfected. If they can be in by launch without sacrificing core world and gameplay polish, then by all means do that, but only if the basics are damn near perfect.
Focus on the world and great gameplay, then polish, polish, polish. Once that is done, add features and even more content ASAP.
There should be a deep, interesting, well built world with a fun, simple, and tightly controlled combat system. The combat being tight, responsive, and addictive is absolutely imperative. Nothing is more important than the actual gameplay! The world should be filled with unique, rare, and meaningful loot, both overland and in dungeons of various levels, so that players have self made goals to achieve as they level.
Intricate quests, crafting, PvP, and even AA advancement could all be designed into the game, but not necessarily implemented until they are fine tuned and well polished. Plan for these systems in advance, but implement only when perfected. If they can be in by launch without sacrificing core world and gameplay polish, then by all means do that, but only if the basics are damn near perfect.
Focus on the world and great gameplay, then polish, polish, polish. Once that is done, add features and even more content ASAP.
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You might be right. I found this article about it...
Utility-Based AI and EverQuest Next - EQNexus
Now what if the dragon was able to do a whole lot more than just build threat or perform predetermined abilities. What if that dragon could adapt to the combat presented to it in an intelligent fashion? With a utility-based AI, that is essentially what it does. Let's look at this scenario now from the dragon's point of view. With utility-based AI, the dragon is able to take in a lot of information and determine what next step it should perform in order to increase its chances of survival. It can look at a host of things, for example: the class make up of the group, the spells the group are casting, whether there are melee or ranged players, the weapons being used, whether they have a shield, the type of armor they are wearing, the type of buffs they have, who is doing more damage and who is healing. It can then assign percentages or numbers to these snippets of information and come to a decision on what gives it the best chance to survive and put that decision into action. That decision might be to use different abilities or use different buffs or debuffs. That decision might also be "Hey, my best chance at survival here is to quit messing with that guy wearing plate armor and go after the mage that is kicking my butt but only wearing a dress." That decision might even be to run away. With utility-based AI, combat has nothing to do with "dps" and "threat" but instead we have a change to the entire combat procedure which alters the landscape of combat greatly. We have intelligent monsters that can adapt as their situation changes.
The key to this of course is balance. Given all the options the above dragon has and can take in tons of information, it would be easy to own your group every time.
Tauro
Bronze Knight of the Realm
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I guess the KS will end at about 500k (without any mystery backers to push it over the 800k). And thats really not bad at all considering they only sell a concept of a game that may be released in about 3 years...
I hope they will regroup and try to fund directly through their website to produce a prototype version over the next year. Focus on the core gameplay only, 5-6 people working in Brads garage should be fundable that way. Then do another KS, preferably with immediate alpha access for people willing to spend 250$+ if the KS funds.
I hope they will regroup and try to fund directly through their website to produce a prototype version over the next year. Focus on the core gameplay only, 5-6 people working in Brads garage should be fundable that way. Then do another KS, preferably with immediate alpha access for people willing to spend 250$+ if the KS funds.
Self-managing raid parties allows for more personal responsibilities being shared: create raids that focus around that type of raid play. Then you can think of each subunit of the raid as a chess piece, and construct interesting challenges depending on their different potential makeups.
Interesting look into the finances of another startup MMO company.
Here is the financial overview for Pathfinder Online for the year 2013:Goblinworks
They are very open about their finances. Now Pathfinder Online already had secured funding before their Kickstarter, from Paizo, the Kickstarter money was always meant to speed development up. You can see that Goblinworks (the team that is developing PFO) is also a startup company, that had to secure officespace and buy equipment and such. They were helped with this by Paizo, on which premisses they have set up shop (see one of their other blogs).
The CEO of Paizo and also from Goblinworks, Lisa Stevens(founder of Paizo), is obviously an experienced business women who has kept Ryan Dancy and Goblinworks mean and lean from the very beginning, when the concept of a Pathfinder MMO was created, see this quote from their very first blog:
When compared to triple AAA budgets, their costs over an entire year are puny. Even so, you can see how fast a measly 1 million in KS money will be spent. What Panteon needs is a Paizo and a Lisa Stevens.
Here is the financial overview for Pathfinder Online for the year 2013:Goblinworks
They are very open about their finances. Now Pathfinder Online already had secured funding before their Kickstarter, from Paizo, the Kickstarter money was always meant to speed development up. You can see that Goblinworks (the team that is developing PFO) is also a startup company, that had to secure officespace and buy equipment and such. They were helped with this by Paizo, on which premisses they have set up shop (see one of their other blogs).
The CEO of Paizo and also from Goblinworks, Lisa Stevens(founder of Paizo), is obviously an experienced business women who has kept Ryan Dancy and Goblinworks mean and lean from the very beginning, when the concept of a Pathfinder MMO was created, see this quote from their very first blog:
They are planning to start alpha in April of this year.
When compared to triple AAA budgets, their costs over an entire year are puny. Even so, you can see how fast a measly 1 million in KS money will be spent. What Panteon needs is a Paizo and a Lisa Stevens.