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Pan'Theon: Rise' of th'e Fal'Len - #1 Thread in MMO
- Thread starter gogojira_sl
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edited: was hammering on a hot button issue needlessly
What doesn't get said often enough is that the writing in games sucks. It stinks. It's absolute bollocks. It's not necessarily that the writers are bad, though I'm sure there are mediocre writers working in game companies. It's that there's no way a game company can write as much as vivid stuff as people will imagine if you leave stuff up to imagination - the stories games tell need to be acceptable to the board room, and this means that a lot of nasty, weird, silly, dirty, non-PC stuff will never be put into games, because it is too risqu? for the marketing dept.
Gay romance in BW games? Came in 10 years after, say, Will & Grace. W&G had 83 Emmy nominations and earned 16 Emmies. Ran 8 years. Also, that ME1 gay romance is more like: Asari doesn't check Shepard's gender flag, right?
Rust videos have rampant gay rape and other 'inappropriate stuff' that the players enjoy a lot, based on the voice chat. And the beauty of player-generated stories is that once they are bored? The game doesn't force the same narrative on them. They are free to disregard all that for the rest of the game.
My fiction credentials are a single co-authored comedy stageplay (our production turned a nice 80% profit after taxes) so it's not like I'm a fiction Jesus, but there is a lot to be said for leaving stuff unexplained. It's a very effective technique, but one woefully underused in computer games these days.
Am I saying rape is better than a kiss with ... hah, can't even recall the name of that asari chick? In a sense, yes. Hypothetical: I don't always have an internal narrative of getting the girl going on while I play, but when I do, it's ass-through-to-mouth penetration with a demonically possessed and imbued 20 inch knobbled trouser snake.* If a game leaves sex entirely out of the picture, who's to say that didn't happen? BioWare scenes, otoh, pretty explicitly show what happened and fuck your conception of your Gray Warden.
*totally cribbed this off Fenoxo's Corruption of Champions, a sandbox text-based TF adult flash game. It totally blows wow clones out of the water when it comes to RPG elements.
What doesn't get said often enough is that the writing in games sucks. It stinks. It's absolute bollocks. It's not necessarily that the writers are bad, though I'm sure there are mediocre writers working in game companies. It's that there's no way a game company can write as much as vivid stuff as people will imagine if you leave stuff up to imagination - the stories games tell need to be acceptable to the board room, and this means that a lot of nasty, weird, silly, dirty, non-PC stuff will never be put into games, because it is too risqu? for the marketing dept.
Gay romance in BW games? Came in 10 years after, say, Will & Grace. W&G had 83 Emmy nominations and earned 16 Emmies. Ran 8 years. Also, that ME1 gay romance is more like: Asari doesn't check Shepard's gender flag, right?
Rust videos have rampant gay rape and other 'inappropriate stuff' that the players enjoy a lot, based on the voice chat. And the beauty of player-generated stories is that once they are bored? The game doesn't force the same narrative on them. They are free to disregard all that for the rest of the game.
My fiction credentials are a single co-authored comedy stageplay (our production turned a nice 80% profit after taxes) so it's not like I'm a fiction Jesus, but there is a lot to be said for leaving stuff unexplained. It's a very effective technique, but one woefully underused in computer games these days.
Am I saying rape is better than a kiss with ... hah, can't even recall the name of that asari chick? In a sense, yes. Hypothetical: I don't always have an internal narrative of getting the girl going on while I play, but when I do, it's ass-through-to-mouth penetration with a demonically possessed and imbued 20 inch knobbled trouser snake.* If a game leaves sex entirely out of the picture, who's to say that didn't happen? BioWare scenes, otoh, pretty explicitly show what happened and fuck your conception of your Gray Warden.
*totally cribbed this off Fenoxo's Corruption of Champions, a sandbox text-based TF adult flash game. It totally blows wow clones out of the water when it comes to RPG elements.
I do enjoy some of the wow clones for what they are... A McMeal extruded product that you romp through and discard. Doesn't earn the company subscription fees, but, hey, they aren't marketing experts, they are MMO designers! No, wait...
Soygen
The Dirty Dozen For the Price of One
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So eventually he'll "get" that what he likes, he doesn't really like?
Look, I'll agree with you that games that constantly cater to lowest common denominator suck. MMOs have been a terrible genre save for a couple of exceptions. But I take issue with the idea that those who don't want this kind of game are somehow confused about their tastes(or lack thereof).
Vandyn
Blackwing Lair Raider
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Congratz, you are one of a very small minority who thought Vanguard was good. Despite how it turned out after the fact, it has one of the worst launches ever in history and the saying always goes, first impressions are everything in this industry especially for an MMORPG. SoE isn't going to keep the servers running for the small handful that still play that game.
If you put out garbage, you're going to be called out on it. Besides, you have no proof that the game that gets made (if ever) is going to 'take you back' to yesteryear. Nothing in this KS has shown that.
Hateyou
Not Great, Not Terrible
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I'm not sure wtf this post is trying to convey but I think you can rape all the dudes you want in Second Life bro.
Pantheon brings back the fun of a corpse run | Massively
Pantheon brings back the fun of a corpse run
This is just sad how there throwing everything against the wall, trying to see what sticks so late in the kickstarter.
Pantheon brings back the fun of a corpse run
This is just sad how there throwing everything against the wall, trying to see what sticks so late in the kickstarter.
pharmakos
soʞɐɯɹɐɥd
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Vandyn
Blackwing Lair Raider
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Quineloe
Ahn'Qiraj Raider
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Was I talking about EQ?
Death itself meant nothing in EQ. It was the failing that mattered. If you didn't die, the result was the same, you failed. If you gated, camped or FDed to avoid death, you still probably lost your raid target to the competition. The actual death is what I'm talking about, and in most cases, dieing in EQ didn't mean shit. It was only really penalizing in levels 20-40, before you had easy access to Resurrection
shabushabu
Molten Core Raider
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I did not really have many issues playing vanguard even at lainch and SOE rushed the game out and made people play a game in beta state not Brad..
Given that I recognize that a game with its primary content based on grouping is what the genre has lost... and that is what pantheon is setup to be.
Again I don't disagree that VG was in a beta state but you guys are taking the negativity too far on this .
If people believe in brad for whatever reason and that yields you an option for another MMO to play then while pile on the negatives at this point ?
Unless you all just don't want to see a game based around groups because you are a solo to cap kiddy or a battleground pvper.
Either way your overboard negativity is hurting all of our chances to play something g different. . On second thought u guys are probably shills for mainstream publishers.
If you set bugs and being unfinished aside, vanguard is the best game to release in the last 6 or so years, the mechanics, class design, epic quests and exploration were awesome. If you disagree, quite frankly you fall in to 2 categories, 1. you didn't play it. 2. you think wow is the epitome of the mmo. Your statement here makes it pretty clear you have no idea what you are talking about and are regurgitating what you have heard and read elsewhere.
Soygen
The Dirty Dozen For the Price of One
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shabushabu
Molten Core Raider
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Most didn't play it but love to be experts on something they didn't see.. and blowing through the content PLing at launch doesn't count either.
Vanguard was a gem from a design perspective .. it truly gave meaning to its about the journey not the destination.
Vandyn
Blackwing Lair Raider
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How else do you judge a game then? I played Vanguard at launch. It was a piece of shit on numerous levels. It doesn't matter how good it is underneath, if it launches with bugs and it's incomplete, guess what, it's garbage. Just like every other game that has launched with bugs/incomplete content.
You are what's wrong with this damn industry. Because you buy and support games that launch like this. You're standards should be higher. You're the guy that buys games like Aliens: colonial marines, Sim City or X-Rebirth and say 'but guys, it's really a good game underneath it all'.
Kirun
Buzzfeed Editor
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I bought a physical copy Colonial Marines for $15 off of newegg and they gave me a $15 mail in rebate. Just felt sorry they bought all those games from sega
shabushabu
Molten Core Raider
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Dood do i like that we need to get creative and spend some of our own dollars to get a game we want to play ? Hell No. But you are not going to see a primarily good group based come out in the west in the next 10 years thanks to those controlling development dollars... even folks who don't care for an eq or VG like game are dissapointed at every MMO release ? Why ? Because they are catering to those that fund them, and those bean counting idiots still think WOW.
So this is a shot at it, pure and simple... most people are aware of the bad points of vanguard launch, it has been beaten to death on 100s of sites... I stuck with the game for years, saw the designs that fucking rocked and it made the buggy-ness worth dealing with ...
I don't get your "your whats wrong with the damn industry" either... Vanguard was a horrible launch and since vanguard most MMOs have launched in a pretty solid state, so your precious AAA WoW clone MMO space is well protected sir.. So you won that battle didnt you ?
Kirun
Buzzfeed Editor
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Are they? Are theyreally? Sure, a vocal minority and some people on the Rerolled forums are. However, the MMO player-base at large? It doesn't seem as prevalent as you think.
Let's face it, roughly 500k or so players "grew up on MMOs" in the vein of EQ. Of those 500k, how many are still interested in those mechanics? Plenty of people loathed EQ, but played it due to a lack of options, boredom, not wanting to leave their friends, etc. Now, how many more of those 500k are at a point in their lives where they can no longer devote that kind of time, despite maybe wishing they could? We're all not high-school/college aged anymore. You'll come back with a "But! Think of all the college aged kids nowadays, craving for something hardcore!". Well, are you sure about that? They've "grown up on MMOs" in the vein of WoW. Essentially, they don't even know if they'dpotentiallylike a game like EQ, because they've never experienced it. Not to mention, the newest generation is very much about "instant gratification", "quick fix", etc. I think it'd be hard to sell them on a game like EQ, if for no other reason than the fact that life only seems to be getting "faster paced". Taking all that into consideration, do you really think an investor/publisher is ever going fund a project like that? Furthermore, do you think there is even enough interest amongst crowd-sourcing to undertake a project like that? Not for many, many years. Not until technology becomes cheap enough.