Path of Exile 2

PoE1 has not been on rails since around the time Ward Loop showed up as a build. I think it's a pretty good example because in PoE2 Ward Loop would get nuked out of existence mid league. In PoE1 it (and builds like it) is allowed to thrive.

It seems to me there are 2 very different thought processes going on at GGG regarding PoE2. When PoE2 first released it seemed very much like they were actively encouraging Ward Loop style autobomber gameplay. So much so that they gave us all those meta Energy gems. I mean... they even put a Cast on Dodge Roll gem into the game. One school of thought at GGG clearly likes that type of build loadout, and when people used those energy gems, even exactly as intended, the other team at GGG said "NO FUCKING WAY" and nerfed them into oblivion.

There is a very clear tug of war going on at GGG, so much so that players, especially PoE1 vets, have no idea what will or won't be seen as intended interactions or overpowered.

TheBeagle said:

Literally every single player in POE2 spends 20% of their playtime fat rolling. How is that any better than everyone using Leap Slam, Flame Dash, or Blink Arrow?

Every league in POE2 up to this point was absolutely dominated by 2 or 3 builds because build diversity is so on the rails that once a small handfull of streamers figure out the one build that can actually get you through that slog of a campaign, everyone else flocks to it. So far, POE2's metas have been WAY less diversified than any POE1 league and its not even close.

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The fat-rolling comparison isn't really equivalent. Movement skills like Leap Slam, Flame Dash, or Blink Arrow were optional optimizations layered on top of already-functional builds - fat rolling is a baseline consequence of early PoE2 tuning, not a solved mobility meta people are choosing because it's optimal. That's a pacing and balance issue, not evidence that the entire design philosophy is worse. Everyone fat rolling early doesn't replace build expression, it just highlights that early-game mobility values aren't where they need to be yet. Sprint did a LOT to help this.

As for metas being dominated by a few builds, that's less an indictment of "rails" and more a symptom of a young system with limited tuning passes. Early PoE1 leagues were also heavily solved once streamers cracked the numbers. The difference is that PoE1 had years of accumulated complexity and content bloat to disguise how narrow the meta actually was. PoE2 doesn't have that inertia yet, so when something is overtuned, it's more obvious.

Right now, the campaign slog amplifies this effect. When the early game is slow and punishing, players will naturally gravitate toward the few builds that brute-force it efficiently. That doesn't mean the underlying system can't support diversity, it means the onboarding and early balance are doing a terrible job of showcasing it (which is precisely why I keep bitching so much about the early-game). Narrow metas in PoE2 so far say more about unfinished tuning and front-loaded friction than they do about some irreversible flaw in the game's long-term design.

Khane said:

PoE1 has not been on rails since around the time Ward Loop showed up as a build. I think it's a pretty good example because in PoE2 Ward Loop would get nuked out of existence mid league. In PoE1 it (and builds like it) is allowed to thrive.

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Ward Loop is actually a good example, but probably not in the way you're framing it. In PoE1 it's "allowed to thrive" largely because the game is so mature and so layered that GGG tolerates a certain amount of absurdity as long as it doesn't completely dominate everything else. That's less a philosophical endorsement and more a reality of maintaining a decade-old system where ripping out every degenerate interaction would cause more collateral damage than it's worth.

PoE2 isn't in that position yet. Early in a game's life, interactions like Ward Loop aren't quirky outliers, they'll start defining metas almost immediately. That's why something like it would get nuked mid-league in PoE2. Not because GGG hates creativity, but because letting an autobomber-style interaction set the tone this early would crowd out every other playstyle before the game even finds its footing. This is the very dangerous ground they were treading with minions, until reigning it in a bit.

The energy gem situation doesn't really prove a "tug of war" so much as iterative correction. Early EA clearly leaned too far in the direction of automated triggers, and once it became obvious how dominant they were, GGG pulled back hard. That's not unusual for early access IMO. It's exactly when you should be discovering where the guardrails need to be. PoE1 didn't have that luxury because it found out in live leagues and then lived with the consequences for years.

I do agree on one thing though - from a player perspective, the signaling has been messy. When you introduce things like Cast on Dodge Roll, it's reasonable for players to assume those interactions are being encouraged. If GGG wants tighter lanes, they need to communicate that intent more clearly and avoid baiting players with mechanics they're not prepared to support long-term. But uncertainty about what survives balance passes isn't evidence that PoE2 is on some uniquely hostile path. It's evidence that the game is still defining its boundaries. PoE1 feels permissive now because those boundaries were set years ago. PoE2 is still in the uncomfortable phase where they're being drawn in real time.

I've been playing druid this league with the usual spectre minion build. I started as Shaman Druid because the 120 free spirit was enticing, and it was really great for leveling and early endgame. I've recently respecced to Oracle Druid though and it feels so much stronger for minions. From the unseen path hidden passive tree that Oracle gets, there's some amazing minion nodes. For example 40% better reservation for minions, a bunch of highly concentrated high value minion +damage nodes, and the ability to cherry pick notables without fully pathing to them from the entwined realities ascendancy node. What makes it really stand out for me though is the forbidden path node, which adds 20% of minion elemental damage as bonus chaos damage. That's amazing for powered zealots (the current meta spectre who just spam spark).

I don't have the experience or deep research to say what's the best class for minions, but I do have to say I'm loving the Oracle exclusive minion nodes as a Druid. I played Infernalist minions in 0.3, and if I were to go spectre minions again in 0.5 it would be on Oracle Druid.

The performance updates were overall positive for me too. I see noticeable improvement when the screen is densely packed in combat, but on the other hand they made the already long load times even longer in this patch.

Now for the actual 0.4 league mechanic itself... the temple is stupid. I was so hyped for it, because the IDEA of the temple sounds incredible. Build a dungeon, run it for great rewards, work towards the temple uberboss and get some neat loot. How great does that sound? Super cool!

Then I got to play it myself after league launch. While I did get like one or two upgrades from it during the campaign, now that I'm in maps holy shit is the temple a steaming pile of shit. For one thing, loot does not exist from the temple. I run six maps so I can do a temple run and I maybe walk away with two regal orbs and a guaranteed low level common unique worth maybe 1 exalt. That's it.

The building blocks are such RNG cancer. I'm level 92, mostly done atlas, and I've been able to fight the architecht once (while leveling in the campaign, so it didn't even count since you need to beat him in a 75+ zone to give real credit). Since then I've NEVER been able to path to him again because despite something like 20 more temple runs (which means 120 maps to grind that out), I've never been offered roads that could connect to the architecht's room. Also half the rooms I do place collapse after each run. Like holy shit I hate the temple now but I just want to fight Atziri at least once before I bail on the league... but at this rate I can't even get to the fucking architecht, and even once I eventually do luck my way into the right shaped roads which let me get to his room, then (according to the wiki), I'll have to THEN path to a newly spawned "key" chamber to unlock the door to Atziri, and THEN I'll have to build a path to actually get to Atziri.

At this rate 0.5 will be out before I make it to Atziri. Is that probably partly (or mostly) a skill issue with temple building... maybe or probably, but I put the blame on shitty mechanic design making it this complex and RNG for the player.

I want to love this temple mechanic so much, but I just can't

Agree, the temple is so retarded, and I could suggest a few different changes to fix it.

I think the simplest fix would just be for every room to have 4 entrances/exits, so that you can place any room/hallway next to any other room. This way you have the option of (1) pathing a straight line to the architect and then Atziri, or (2) you could build around the upgrade rooms to get better rewards from the rooms themselves.

There are other improvements I could suggest, but the above would at least fix the thing to be playable and rewarding.

Temple was fine during the campaign. But it's dumb as fuck at endgame. You gave me a regal crafting bench? Sweet let's hope I'm still using blue gear at lvl 76 in t12 maps.

I'm assuming pathing is a problem too, but I haven't run one in a long while since loot/upgrades are non-existent.

God damn this game still fucking sucks. Even playing Poison PF campaign is still turbo aids. How do normal people play this game? You can just get absolutely fucking screwed with drops. Even checking vendor every level, picking up every bow and using all the tricks at my disposal I can't find a decent bow throughout all of act 3. No fucking jeweler drops. How did they possibly make the campaign a worse experience then POE1.

Temple is pretty good if you get T3 corruption room cause the Vaal cultivation orb (foulborn one) is 140ex today (was 60 ex yesterday). And you can get to run back to the same room several times (im on 3 trips so far for my current room). No point running it if you don't have a specific reward like that though. Architect orbs are 40ish ex too and dont know about other currencies.

I'm liking the wolf. Started as a tactician though cause (besides reservation node and possible wolf gang stuff) i thought i'd get to freeze things and then the ice balls from shred would pin the monster once freeze drops. Hasnt quite worked out like that though, maybe with sine aequo. Best use out of the pin node ive found has been to get power charges from Alith chimes on cross slash and then oil barrage but thats also kind of scuffed because it doesnt get any benefit from +melee gem levels.

Caved and bought a weapon that tripled my damage for 1ex and made it past A3. A3 is just such a slog and when you arent making progression on your character it starts to feel super boring and i get so disinterested. This whole campaign ssf experience is still trash. It's at such odds with itself (I know I say this a lot about this game). On one hand you get this currency to craft on, on the other hand the value trade for crafting vs buying is close to infinity weighed to buying.

They should take the idea of crafting benches from the temple and put them as drops (think alters) in the campaign. I think that would be a good solution.

Act 3 is the worst shit in the game. It feels so disjointed, it's long, the zones are not really interesting, the waypoints are trash so if you just run through and get randomly stunned you may have to walk back for ages. Overall it's not good. I didn't have issues with bows though, I just bought the highest phys DPS bow when it became available, rolled on it and pumped up quality to 20% and it was enough even if I didn't get %phys.

Campaign wouldn't be an issue if they fixed the gearing issue. Can go the whole campaign with shit gear even while religiously checking all vendors on each level up. That shit is tedious and not fun. In PoE1 you could at least alt spam or use the crafting recipes, none of that exists in PoE2 and they didn't put in a viable alternative. Every quest should give rare gear and a couple Exalts/Regals so you can at least attempt to craft something.

During the campaign, save currency for weapons, and make sure you check boots for movement and gloves for flat damage and rings. Act 1 Lachlan, stand in front of him up against the grave centered between his legs, none of his big damage attacks hit you. Act 2 make sure to look for lighting res based ring, you get one guaranteed one, if you get a drop with that you are golden and use them for Jamanra, when he goes to phase 2 during the transition log out to character select and he won’t regen his health and you can unload on him for a few seconds to make it even easier.

Act 3, if you haven’t did your first ascendancy make sure after you get your second spirit gem go back and do it, if you can’t by then I can’t help you. Look for a poison charm to help with that poison bitch and chaos resist rings.

Act 4 which this advice goes for any act, go for passive point bosses first as more power early helps speed things up. Tavaki when you get him to transition from phase 2 to 3, log to character select and when you come back he won’t regen, make sure to wait until he starts to regen a little before you log out.

So how would you guys fix this game? I see ascendancies as a chore and endgame as boring.

Burnem Wizfyre said:

During the campaign, save currency for weapons, and make sure you check boots for movement and gloves for flat damage and rings.

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Did all that, ended up with a dogshit dualstring bow after several attempts with both currency and the temple and still using 10% MS boots when I got to act 3 and then said fuck it and quit. Couldn't stomach the idea of slogging through the endless bullshit once you get to the time portal, and there's nothing to look forward to anyway. League mechanic is the worst yet by far and it's just the same old endgame that I will get bored of long before I find even one citadel.

Rogosh said:

So how would you guys fix this game? I see ascendancies as a chore and endgame as boring.

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They need to completely redesign ascendancies. And ideally get rid of whoever it was that came up with the idea of using the worst PoE1 league as one of the most important parts of progression in PoE2 in the first place. Even worse than just being bad league mechanics, it's three things that the main reason people dislike them is because you really need a build made for them to do them well. None of them should have even been considered for something as universal as ascendancies.

Fixing the endgame... I really have no idea how you make it fun starting with what is there now. I thought getting rid of towers would at least get it on par with PoE's atlas, which gets old pretty damn fast now too, but it was still a slog and I quit like 3 days after that patch in 0.3 despite playing the best build I've ever had in either game (RIP Last Lament).

I don't even mind a little bit of a trial to get your ascendancies. One floor of Sekhema - no problem. 4 rounds of chaos trial - ok, not too bad, if you get a bricking mod it doesn't take too long to try again.

But holy shit, forcing 3 whole floors for the next one, or a full 10 trials is a bit much of a sink just to get a base part of your character's progression, and then a full 4 floor run and 10 trials plus what is basically a pinnacle boss for the last ascendancy? it's way too fucking much.

They could just scale it back a bit. Hopefully when the TOTA ascendancy is in the game in act 4 for the third, they'll let you do the last ascendancy for what is currently the third. I'd like to see the last scaled back a bit more than that, but with mudflation eventually it hopefully will be like POE1 lab and not really be too much of a challenge a few leagues later.

Fixing the endgame is not too hard either. Copies from my previous post:
Honestly, all they need to do is make it so nodes dont lock out after you run the map.

This way, you go out, find all the bosses and stuff, and then when youve "finished" the atlas by finding what you want, you can just socket a new waystone and rerun any layout with extra content over and over again just like poe1. Unique nodes like paradise and seer get locked so you could keep expanding and running outward to find them as incentive to keep expanding, or just run the node you want over and over with a new waystone.

You still need key fragments to run the pinnacle bosses, its not like you really need to find another citadel.

Rogosh said:

So how would you guys fix this game? I see ascendancies as a chore and endgame as boring.

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I have no doubt they'll fix the end-game, since every patch has been slowly improving it in meaningful ways. Based on the last 2 leagues alone, I have no doubt they'll get there...eventually. One of my issues with the game Vorph covered really well so I won't expand on it.

I think the biggest thing GGG needs to fix is the early-to-midgame pacing..

The early-to-mid game pacing in PoE2 is one of the biggest contributors to player frustration because it feels both slow and punitive in ways that don't teach or reward mastery. Acts 1-3 ask players to engage with enemies that hit hard and punish mistakes before the game has given them the tools to respond meaningfully. Defensive layers are thin, recovery options are limited, and damage spikes feel arbitrary rather than instructive. It makes early progression feel like attrition instead of growth.

This hits melee especially hard. Close-range builds are forced to trade health for damage long before mitigation, sustain, or crowd control come online. Ranged and caster builds can at least manage risk through distance, but melee is asked to commit into danger without adequate payoff. The result is that the campaign quietly nudges players toward a small subset of "safe" builds, not because they're more interesting, but because they're less miserable to level. It also damages player retention. New players, who don't yet understand the systems or know which builds "come online later," are far less likely to push through a frustrating opening. Veterans might tolerate it once, but even they feel the friction when rerolling becomes a chore. Over time, that reduces how often people engage with new leagues, new ascendancies, or new ideas - exactly the opposite of what a live-service ARPG needs.

Another issue is how delayed the power curve is. PoE2's build expression doesn't really start until you unlock better gems, supports, and synergies, at which point the game suddenly opens up and becomes far more enjoyable. That sharp contrast makes the early acts feel like a toll booth you have to endure to reach the real game. Good pacing should ramp complexity and power gradually. PoE2 instead bottlenecks it, then releases it all at once.

There's also a mismatch between pacing and messaging. The game feels like it wants to be slow and deliberate early on, but it doesn't fully commit to that design. Enemy density, damage values, and encounter layouts often assume a faster, more capable character than the one you actually have. If PoE2 truly wants a slower ARPG experience, then early combat needs to be tuned around survivability, readability, and tactical decision making, not just reduced speed with unchanged lethality.

Finally, poor early pacing hurts replayability. Rerolling a character should feel like an opportunity to explore a new idea, not a chore where you repeat several hours of underpowered gameplay just to unlock basic functionality again. Right now, the early-mid game discourages experimentation by making the cost of trying something new feel too high.

Fixing this doesn't require making the early game trivial. It requires aligning difficulty, power growth, and player expectations so that progression feels intentional rather than obstructive. When the early game teaches the systems instead of fighting the player, the entire experience downstream improves.

Some major changes coming to the temple mechanic in a patch due for tomorrow: Early Access Announcements - Improvements to the Fate of the Vaal League - Forum - Path of Exile

I think this will fix a lot of the problems I have with it. Making architech and reward rooms actually connect to any room is a major help in the pathing.

Deathwing said:

It's common to see "Is this viable on <completely wrong ascendancy>?" in PoE2 videos. How many people are playing PoE2 in spite of the game itself?

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The game looks good and it's still pretty new while also having a free weekend and not costing all that much even outside that window. It brought in a lot of normies is what I'm saying.

I just wish I could select classes and skills with a reasonable amount of confidence that the campaign wasn't going to be ass. The time to "just try something out" is so much longer than I'm used to. I'm sure as shit not going to take a class through a second ascendancy just to check an interaction I'm curious about.