Path of Exile 2

Pasteton

Pasteton

Vyemm Raider
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Most creators focus on a small set of potential builds. Most builds I’ve played thru to endgame have not had creator builds for them atleast not super similarly. But I tried to use it in a ‘come up with a build that uses this unique with this other unique’ and it failed pretty miserably.
 
Uriel

Uriel

Vyemm Raider
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Pasteton said:
Just curious has anyone checked LLMs lately for build tips? I tried it a year or so ago and was terrible, maybe better now.
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I asked Grok a question the other day about PoE2, and it gave me an answer with half the information from a completely different game I'd asked about like a month prior.
 
Burnem Wizfyre

Burnem Wizfyre

Log Wizard
14,347
29,467
AI is horrible for games someone did a video series trying to do builds it created and it never worked, skills, supports, you name it, didn’t exist, was almost comical how bad it was.
 
E

elidib

Ahn'Qiraj Raider
2,999
6,539
Probably the better use of AI for this is asking it something like "based on all available pricing data for 0.4 league, which of these 4 0.5 meta builds would be the cheapest in terms of divines to purchase gear to hit x dps using week 1, 2, 3 characters and currency conversion data from poe.ninja"

It probably wouldnt be able to get that right unless you fed it more very specific and detailed prompts, but maybe you could use it as a launching point.
 
mkopec

mkopec

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Deathwing said:
What's the point of the game if you're going to put what amounts to negative effort into it?
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What are you talking about? Using AI or a build guide for POE2? And not just coming up with some shit yourself? Is this what youre babbling about?

Well some of us dont live inside these games. And do not know the interactions of everything with everything else. GGGs descriptions are vague at best and you have to have a degree in GGS games to understand all of it. Some jsut want to hop on, follow a guide and play the fucking game. Maybe some like to actually come up with builds themselves. Maybe you played Warrior for the past 3 leagues and understand the Warrior inside and out and now want to try something else. I mean, who gives a shit? There is a reason why guides exist, because people use them and like using them. For christs sake, they are even adding build guides intot he fucking game itself.

Are you goig to say you never used a guide? Never looked some shit up because you didnt know?
 
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mkopec

mkopec

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elidib said:
Probably the better use of AI for this is asking it something like "based on all available pricing data for 0.4 league, which of these 4 0.5 meta builds would be the cheapest in terms of divines to purchase gear to hit x dps using week 1, 2, 3 characters and currency conversion data from poe.ninja"

It probably wouldnt be able to get that right unless you fed it more very specific and detailed prompts, but maybe you could use it as a launching point.
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I think for something like youre asking it, it would actually have to have acess to the league itself, all the characters, all the currency being spent, the market...etc...There is only so much you can get from a site like POE ninja or forums around the internet like reddit. Besides, most people like to latch onto popular streamers/youtubers bulds etc... Its those diamionds in the rough youre looking for anyway. Maybe not THE META but something really good, scales into end game really well, its NOT the meta so prices on shit are manageable... shit like that.
 
Pyros

Pyros

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mkopec said:
What are you talking about? Using AI or a build guide for POE2? And not just coming up with some shit yourself? Is this what youre babbling about?

Well some of us dont live inside these games. And do not know the interactions of everything with everything else. GGGs descriptions are vague at best and you have to have a degree in GGS games to understand all of it. Some jsut want to hop on, follow a guide and play the fucking game. Maybe some like to actually come up with builds themselves. Maybe you played Warrior for the past 3 leagues and understand the Warrior inside and out and now want to try something else. I mean, who gives a shit? There is a reason why guides exist, because people use them and like using them. For christs sake, they are even adding build guides intot he fucking game itself.

Are you goig to say you never used a guide? Never looked some shit up because you didnt know?
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He's talking about using LLMs to make the build, following a build guide is perfectly fine because they were made to function properly, but if you want to be a unique snowflake with a unique build then you kinda do need to make the build yourself, asking a LLM to make the build is just obviously going to be dogshit, because the build might not even be functional to begin with. Just because you have an idea doesn't mean the build will work, but that won't prevent ChatGPT to tell you that it indeed does work and you just need to have enough Paragon points.

As for prices and meta, the best is to not follow builds by bigger streamers. Builds like Mathil's, Ghazzy's, Ziz's and so on are just going to be played by a lot of people baseline, so you need to find smaller people. If you follow a guide from a streamer who has 200-500 viewers the prices aren't going to be crazy(unless obviously it overlaps with one of the bigger ones), and there's a lot of people making smaller specific builds still you can find on youtube or the official forums. That said even big streamers builds can be fine sometimes if the basic pieces of the build aren't rare, like if you need specific uniques that shit can really go bad but if it's just "craft this or that" then the prices are going to be a lot more manageable and even uniques aren't going to be too bad if the unique is common enough(especially with the reworked Ritual providing a lot of uniques).
 
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Fyff

Fyff

Ahn'Qiraj Raider
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The builds from the big streamers even out pretty quick. There are a lot of people making that gear and getting their 'close enough' gear usually is pretty cheap.
 
Penance

Penance

Naxxramas 1.0 Raider
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I think making a LLM for poe would require being able to model the damage accurately, something even POB can't fully do for many skills and skill/item interactions. I have though on multiple occasions making my own model for Poe but that hurdle basically makes it a project I think I'm woefully ill equipped to deal with. I think having a model though that could answer basic questions and parse simple data like "what melee skill has the best scaling in respect to..." would be totally doable and an interesting project. I'm sure people much smarter then me are already scaffolding this.
 
mkopec

mkopec

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Penance said:
I think making a LLM for poe would require being able to model the damage accurately, something even POB can't fully do for many skills and skill/item interactions. I have though on multiple occasions making my own model for Poe but that hurdle basically makes it a project I think I'm woefully ill equipped to deal with. I think having a model though that could answer basic questions and parse simple data like "what melee skill has the best scaling in respect to..." would be totally doable and an interesting project. I'm sure people much smarter then me are already scaffolding this.
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Thats why I said LLM would have to have access to the game itself. Then it can determine, mathematically, what skills, what supports what weapons and on which classes is the best option. All they have to go on is websites and forums. which dont really lay out the math logic behind builds and never really deal with numbers.
 
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Pyros

Pyros

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mkopec said:
Thats why I said LLM would have to have access to the game itself. Then it can determine, mathematically, what skills, what supports what weapons and on which classes is the best option. All they have to go on is websites and forums. which dont really lay out the math logic behind builds and never really deal with numbers.
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PoB is open source you can just see the calculations right on their Github, and 99% of PoE1 builds just use PoB calculation, not anything ingame. PoB for PoE2 is way less advanced so a lot of builds are still kinda feelcrafting. You only use ingame to confirm interactions work the way they are supposed to or are bugged. There's also rarely going to be a best option because generally speaking variations are a matter of upside and downside, where value is dependant on the type of player you are and content you're doing.

Because of the billions of permutations, without a core idea guiding the process I'm not sure if a LLM would be able to find any "new" build either other than randomly. It might bruteforce builds eventually but I don't think it'd be a magical solution where it just spits out a perfect superior build no one every thought about for every class kind of deal.
 
Khane

Khane

Got something right about marriage
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PoB has most of that info but nobody is really doing any training on this stuff so its pretty bad.
 
mkopec

mkopec

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Khane said:
PoB has most of that info but nobody is really doing any training on this stuff so its pretty bad.
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Maybe for POE1 but most of the calcs are not even close to being done for POE2. A lot of that shit is still missing from POB2

This would all be solved if GGG gave us a detailed combat log, but they have been asking for this for years and they wont do it.
 
Daidraco

Daidraco

Avatar of War Slayer
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12,068
All depends on the build you're going for. Im playing one of Woolie's builds atm for basic ice wolf. Its one of the first melee builds Ive done, so its kind of fun. But it has Horns of Bynden on its gear list from early game. Not everyone is going to have those, and the guild bank this late into the season has been plundered. But ... the build is absolutely fine up to early late game without them. If I felt as though I was struggling, I'd probably buy them. But, that leads me to a further point:

The game is fucking WAY THE FUCK easier now than what it was at release. Holy fuck did they nerf the living shit out of everything since I last played to late game. It was NOT this fucking easy to side step every bosses ability at release. I thought I was getting PTSD from all the dodging I was doing at release. Now I can wait up until the very last second of an animation before I need to dodge. I honestly.. just dont know how I feel about it. But if it lets you get through the game with a subpar build that doesnt come "online" until late game - then I guess that was the direction they had to take.
 
mkopec

mkopec

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Daidraco said:
All depends on the build you're going for. Im playing one of Woolie's builds atm for basic ice wolf. Its one of the first melee builds Ive done, so its kind of fun. But it has Horns of Bynden on its gear list from early game. Not everyone is going to have those, and the guild bank this late into the season has been plundered. But ... the build is absolutely fine up to early late game without them. If I felt as though I was struggling, I'd probably buy them. But, that leads me to a further point:

The game is fucking WAY THE FUCK easier now than what it was at release. Holy fuck did they nerf the living shit out of everything since I last played to late game. It was NOT this fucking easy to side step every bosses ability at release. I thought I was getting PTSD from all the dodging I was doing at release. Now I can wait up until the very last second of an animation before I need to dodge. I honestly.. just dont know how I feel about it. But if it lets you get through the game with a subpar build that doesnt come "online" until late game - then I guess that was the direction they had to take.
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I mean, thats how campaign is supposed to be. Pretty EZ such that even noobs can slog through it. More experienced players will speed past everything and only kill the shit thats needed. There is plenty of game post campaign that tests your build, no need to have that shit in the campaign. I mean there is plenty enough with rares of different RNG, some being harder than actual bosses to kill.

I still think some classes struggle more in act 1 then they should, namely monk and some others that I have not played yet. For one they dont have good stater skills. They rely on other classes skills to finally get theirs online in act 2. Also problem with the evasion and ES builds that you get stunned all the fucking time and take big hits. Because no armor. They need to buff evasion during campaign. ES same shit, I mean you have ES but squishy as fuck because no defense. They gave Armor classes a big boost with % armor to elemental. The ES and Evasion builds have none of that. And there is no way to equip armor on dex and int classes.
 
mkopec

mkopec

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LOL no one is going to pay for builds. There are so many out there, copies of each other that anyone that tries to monetize this is a dumbass. And anyone who pays for it is a bigger dumb ass.

Besides, even this Guy that dies, even admits in his own videos that he uses other peoples builds for his. Take the whirlwind spear one, he got the tech ( the shit that makes it all work) from someone else. Admittedly so while he was running it.
 
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