Path of Exile

Vorph

Bronze Baronet of the Realm
11,019
4,782
Yeah, I find it truly bizarre that every diamond unique isn't like Soul Taker, Void Battery, Le heup of all, etc. So many people have pissed away a grand on shit that isn't even worth a chaos in game.

I'll try using hold position more I guess. Should be easier to do once my mmo mouse gets back from RMA tomorrow.
 

axeman_sl

shitlord
592
0
Vorph_sl said:
This thread(OP and deteego's response mainly) is the best summary I've seen of the game's problems, and shockingly there wasn't even much white knight/fanboi backlash in it. I particularly like the spoilered comment about diamond supporter uniques in the OP.
Hey, my thread. I'm OP
smile.png
 

Pyros

<Silver Donator>
11,073
2,268
Yeah, I find it truly bizarre that every diamond unique isn't like Soul Taker, Void Battery, Le heup of all, etc. So many people have pissed away a grand on shit that isn't even worth a chaos in game.

I'll try using hold position more I guess. Should be easier to do once my mmo mouse gets back from RMA tomorrow.
Well the older uniques it makes sense, some were designed when high level used to be 45-50 and there were no maps and shit like that, so the uniques designed then were different. I do think they could use a good stat rework though to make them more appealing. Some are just downright fucking stupid though, or very very meh.

Like if you take last patch alone, all 4 uniques were diamond supporter etc uniques. 3 of them are fairly good, even if a bit niche, they're still relatively powerful at their given level and for their particular setup. Not every unique should be kaom's and be useful for almost everyone so that's fine.

Those are the mana flask(gives 1 of each charge while doing damage to you, however the damage actually counts for Cast on damage taken and is Chaos so it's easily reduced and the boost is interesting for a discharge or conduit support build, as well as just pumping charges out at the start of a map then swapping to another flask.

The helm I mentionned earlier, is basically a beast wander helm and can also be used in cast on crit builds to increase your attack that procs the spells. It's an interesting unique at the very least and gives a strong effect.

The sword while not amazing endgame is a good midgame sword, as well as the best DPS offhand for a main hand only skill(which means only Double Strike, Ground Slam or Leap Slam but 1H leap slam is retarded other than for moving so irrelevant). It offers very strong offhand DPS stats at the cost of not having a shield since it buffs your main hand and as long as you use one of the 2 skills I mentionned it never enters the damage calculations directly so the low damage on it doesn't affect your DPS. Very niche but as I said it's also a great leveling sword. Dual wielding them is pretty much going to rape any sort of rare until you roll very good weapons, since they benefit each other. They're much easier to get than a good rare too, so nice weapons even though not like best in slot weapons.

Then you have the mace. At first sight you think "damn that's nice", but then you remember that for the iron will thing to work, you need to put your spell in it and it's a 1H so you can only "4L" it with the Iron Will built in, which means it's gonna be shit for most builds on your main spell, and you won't need it on a secondary spell. The armor your get is alright but nothing great. Only spell I'd put in it is maybe molten shell but even then you can put many supports on molten shell to make it better/equal than this, and mostly you're going to want to codt it because fuck recasting it non stop. If it was a staff it's be insane. Even a 2H mace. But as a 1H it's very meh.
 

axeman_sl

shitlord
592
0
There seem to be few restrictions on what supporters are allowed to design, which is why we're seeing increasingly weird uniques like ones whose stats change based on the fucking colours of the sockets. I was especially disappointed to see one of the most prominent players of the community get a free pass to just blatantly design an upgrade for the build he's playing right now. That's when it starts to approach the point of pay2win when you can just buy the right to make an item that's perfect for your build.

While they do still have to obtain the item on their own, these are players who have access to anything they need because they play 100+ hours a week and can sell/buy everything they want at an absurd premium due to stream viewers who are willing to basically scam themselves in order to get to be seen trading with some community celeb. I watched streams for a while and it's laughable how easy it is to get rich when you have a thousand fans watching. Half the time you can just say you need something and there'll be people fighting for the opportunity to give it to you for free.

The need to acquire the unique you designed does not really keep it from being P2W if you're allowed to design almost anything you want, including direct power upgrades for your current character. I never liked the supporter-designed unique system, players are not game developers and will by definition not be qualified to design balanced, suitable content. You wouldn't ask a random player to develop any other aspect of the game, but strangely they're trusted with one of the most important things in an ARPG. I realize they aren't just given completely free reign, but it's obvious that they can get away with most things as long as they don't just troll. The review process is clearly lenient and uncritical.

We saw the same shit with those lightning gloves that were clearly tailored for someone's personal use in their LA build, as well as plenty of other uniques. These people aren't designing the uniques that the game needs, they're designing the ones that would personally benefit them right now. It's causing all kinds of issues not only with game balance but also with the fact that it's getting to a point where the odds of finding a unique that's actually useful for your build is so low that it's not likely to ever happen over the course of a 4-month league.
 

Selix

Lord Nagafen Raider
2,149
4
I guess I'm the only one who likes custom uniques? I mean sure it's sort of pay2win but it's not cheap and the unique is available to everyone. The best part though is that it forces a constant stream of new uniques into the game. They should be regulate them so long as they ban the most OP from new races/leagues.
 

axeman_sl

shitlord
592
0
All they would really need to do is stagger the release of the new uniques so that what gets designed during this season gets introduced throughout the next season. This rules out paying for an upgrade for your current character, and encourages making uniques that suit the general game instead of being tailormade for one specific build. That part is what dilutes the unique pool and makes most of them useless because what's popular now might not be usable at all in six months. Of the current unique pool, I'd say that about 60% is low-level garbage you'll use for a few hours tops, 30% is stupidly niche or just plain useless, and the remaniing 10% is stuff like Maligaro's and such which actually fit the game instead of fitting some fleeting fancy of a player who has never before had anything to do with game development.
 

Jim Russel

Lord Nagafen Raider
509
50
There seem to be few restrictions on what supporters are allowed to design, which is why we're seeing increasingly weird uniques like ones whose stats change based on the fucking colours of the sockets. I was especially disappointed to see one of the most prominent players of the community get a free pass to just blatantly design an upgrade for the build he's playing right now.
What would be the point of adding a unique that nobody has use for? The best way of adding useful uniques is to have invested players design them themselves. Correct me if I'm wrong, but it's not like diamond supporters are getting a free copy of the unique. They still have to farm it themselves.

Anyway, online in Nemesis right now (IGN Rhygerian, lvl 69). Let me know if you need some runthroughs.
 

Nola

Trakanon Raider
2,961
1,391
Just got the scion class. Which is the better Spectral throw class? Scion or Ranger? They the only class is see that use the ability the most.
 

Man0warr

Molten Core Raider
2,265
171
Depends on the weapon - I'm Dagger/Crit with Cast on Crit also - this is my build (or what I'm mostly working towards).

Passive Skill Tree - Path of Exile

That build would probably be better starting as a Shadow.

If you were going 2H on Hardcore it's better to start as a Scion and head towards Marauder, or just starting straight out as Maurader - because faster/better access to life nodes and you can spec into any type of 2H weapon you want.
 

axeman_sl

shitlord
592
0
What would be the point of adding a unique that nobody has use for? The best way of adding useful uniques is to have invested players design them themselves. Correct me if I'm wrong, but it's not like diamond supporters are getting a free copy of the unique. They still have to farm it themselves.
Who's talking about adding useless uniques? I specifically said they need to make more generally useful ones instead of tailoring them to their own particular builds. I'm talking about stuff like Mors makingthiswhich is completely worthless for anything except his own build which nobody else has ever done since it requires retarded gear. Instead they should be making items likethisorthiswhich are useful for a wide range of builds rather than one exceedingly uncommon build or, in many cases,no build at all.The more worthless uniques are introduced to the game, the harder it is to find a useful one.
 

Pyros

<Silver Donator>
11,073
2,268
I think the ranger start is fine too, the nodes at the start are very strong even if they don't provide as much life right away(but who needs like in the first 20levels really, just equip 2 coral rings and a leather belt and you have enough hp until act3 without any health nodes). The evasion converts into armor later on if/when you take IR, and it has early access to some good mana nodes as well as a very strong 1pt 8% speed node. I'm not a fan of the Scion start. Getting out of the early area is a choice between a lot of shitty options, the best of which imo is the mana one since the nodes are alright, and it gives you fast access to the large health node. If you're melee the melee into resist is really good too, but if you're not that 15% melee is a waste. Top right side exit is solid too, but only if you're gonna go do a build over there(caster or dagger/fist/bow builds). Marauder start is getting remade, it's alright kinda but there's only really one way to do it.

Regardless though, the differences in the builds are fairly small and will amount to the same total of stats in the end a lot of the time. If you plan on going 2H swords, you should look into ranger, scion or duellist, if you want 2H maces you'll want more like scion, marauder or duellist, if you want axes any of these 4. You should probably avoid templar, witch and shadow for a 2H build spectral throw build(templar could be interesting for a 2H elem spectral throw build though). What you ultimately choose between these classes is a matter of taste. I personally hate how the duellist look so I wouldn't play one, marauder not a big fan, I find the scion annoying as fuck so I generally go ranger, on top of liking the starting area more.
 

Flight

Molten Core Raider
1,229
285
You've made the good uniques so rare that we can't expect to ever find one, but without them there's maybe ten viable builds in the game.
Axeman or anyone else throw out a list of these (not in length just name them eg 1. Summoner). Loved the game back in beta but for exactly the reasons in axemans post on the PoE forums I'm not enjoying release.
 

Pyros

<Silver Donator>
11,073
2,268
Well viable builds hmm.

Caster builds: EK, Freezing Pulse, Fireball/burning build, Detonate Dead+Firetrap build, Trapper, Summoner, Discharger(few variations but let's put them all as one), Molten Shell+Tempest Shield caster tank, Incinerate, Explosive Arrow(technically uses a bow but pretty much a caster build), Dual Totem(as a general playstyle, the spells used can vary a lot and will affect the build a lot)

Ranged attack builds: Wander, LA chain, Ice Shot pierce, RoA(there's 2 big variations, phys and elem), Split Arrow crit phys, Split arrow cast on crit hybrid, Burning Arrow avatar of Fire burning build, Aura support builds(which tend to be wander/bow builds, 5-7auras, conduit with frenzy/powercharges/enduring cry kind of stuff).

Melee builds: Leap Slam 2H, Spectral Throw 2H, Spectral Throw 1H Dagger(with a cast on crit variation but tend to be fairly similar), Cyclone dagger cast on crit hybrid, Infernal Blow(weapon or fist variation), Dual Strike splash, Double Strike splash, Reave dagger/fist, Ele cleave(way nerfed, still does as much DPS as a caster build), Ground Slam, Sweep, Lightning Strike dagger, Dominating Blow, Flicker spam.

Maybe forgot a few builds, but that's a pretty good list. There are a lot of notable skills that are not used in any particularily viable builds or only used a secondary skills. The change to dot scaling might make them a lot better though(puncture, poison arrow, viper strike come to mind). All these builds are viable in endgame, they don't necessarily perform at the same level so there's various tiers, but they are able to clear any content provided they're sufficiently geared, at an acceptable pace. A lot of these builds also have multiple variations on their defense type(IR for armor, evasion+acro, life or CI etc). Most of them are viable on Hardcore but some require specific reworking to counter the downsides of the build(for example molten shell/discharge builds will want to get vaal pact if they don't want to one shot themselves on reflects).

If I go through the list of active skills you can design a build around(so not like Anger or Rejuvenation totem), there's very few skills that I think you can't build efficiently on.

Str: Everything usable but Searing Bond(shouldn't be an actual totem but a support for totems) and Shield Charge(clunky to use as damage, poor damage, poor aoe, outclassed in every way by leap slam as a movement ability). Heavy Strike and Glacial Hammer a bit weak, Heavy good as secondary for single target 2H melee, Glacial can do interesting aoe freeze builds but damage output is poor.

Dex: Elemental Hit I'm not too sure there's a very good build for it with all the elem nerfs, Poison Arrow lacks scaling, Puncture ok damage but technically only really usable with a bow and damage over time isn't that high compared to just shooting the mob more so fairly pointless, Viper Strike not scaling enough and no aoe possibility but really good at boss killing, Whirling Blades terrible at anything but movement, which it's ok at but Leap Slam is better in some situations(less desync when crossing tight passages, can jump over obstacles). The degen scaling patch should be coming next week or in the next major patch in 3weeks depending so it'll probably help 3 of these skills a lot.

Int: A fuckton of unusable primary spells, due to terrible scaling. Arc poor damage, Arctic Breath poor damage(but utility in the form of chilled ground, nice for a totem), Fire Storm randomness, requires mobs to stand still, kills you instantly on lightning thorns, have to choose between high single target damage or large aoe but terrible damage on a single point, Ice Nova still scales like shit, Ice Spear clunky mechanics when cast by the players, works alright as dual totems but freezing can be done more reliably with cold snap traps or freezing mines and damage is awful, Righteous Fire maybe overnerfed, not sure with new Purity aura, Shock Nova awful design with the deadzone, great at applying shock stacks with high quality however, ends up being a good secondary and awful primary.
 

Nola

Trakanon Raider
2,961
1,391
I think the ranger start is fine too, the nodes at the start are very strong even if they don't provide as much life right away(but who needs like in the first 20levels really, just equip 2 coral rings and a leather belt and you have enough hp until act3 without any health nodes). The evasion converts into armor later on if/when you take IR, and it has early access to some good mana nodes as well as a very strong 1pt 8% speed node. I'm not a fan of the Scion start. Getting out of the early area is a choice between a lot of shitty options, the best of which imo is the mana one since the nodes are alright, and it gives you fast access to the large health node. If you're melee the melee into resist is really good too, but if you're not that 15% melee is a waste. Top right side exit is solid too, but only if you're gonna go do a build over there(caster or dagger/fist/bow builds). Marauder start is getting remade, it's alright kinda but there's only really one way to do it.

Regardless though, the differences in the builds are fairly small and will amount to the same total of stats in the end a lot of the time. If you plan on going 2H swords, you should look into ranger, scion or duellist, if you want 2H maces you'll want more like scion, marauder or duellist, if you want axes any of these 4. You should probably avoid templar, witch and shadow for a 2H build spectral throw build(templar could be interesting for a 2H elem spectral throw build though). What you ultimately choose between these classes is a matter of taste. I personally hate how the duellist look so I wouldn't play one, marauder not a big fan, I find the scion annoying as fuck so I generally go ranger, on top of liking the starting area more.
Good stuff. I'm currently using this guide.

Scion Spectral Throw 2H Sword - Path of POE

I couldn't find one equivalent to the ranger. Pyros do you know of any good ranger spectral throw builds? I found one build but it didn't show any gems I should be using and linking together.
 

Pyros

<Silver Donator>
11,073
2,268
Well that build goes almost to the ranger start, so it's not very complicated, you do the same build, but you start from the ranger area instead. The gems are generally the same for every spectral throw build, spectral+LMP+faster attacks+life leech+added fire damage. Last is whatever. Other gems are standard stuff, reduced mana+auras, generally hatred and grace once you can run these, purity while lvling if your gear sucks, cast on damage taken with enduring cry/molten shell/enfeeble/temp chains/decoy totem/whatever is nice, double strike+multistrike+life leech/life gain on hit+melee physical+faster attacks and that's about it, Leap Slam+Faster attacks for running around and enfeeble for hard shit.

There's Kripp's spectral ranger build somewhere on the forums too, which is the same but I think it has blood magic gems on everything, drop mana nodes and run max auras. Matter of taste I tend to prefer relying on a small mana pools and having one more support, especially if you're not gonna have a bunch of 6L.

Forgot Scion has proj damage nodes though so yeah for Spectral they have a fairly good start since those nodes are ok and lead into the right area.
 

rush02112

Golden Knight of the Realm
274
203
Anyone have a clue on the selling price of 70+ maps on standard? Don't get me wrong, I'd rather do them, but I would rather get currency from them instead of burning currency to run them. I have looked through the forums to see what people are selling them for but it seems the bartering is mostly being done in game.
 

Nulolan

N00b
108
1
Speaking of maps, if anyone is on domination and would like to run 70+ maps I would be game. Have little half a dozen saved up now, including a couple unid'd blue/yellow ones. Didn't want to waste them solo, and have no interest in pugs.
 

Vorph

Bronze Baronet of the Realm
11,019
4,782
Scion starting area is so good, you'd be nuts to pass on it just because she talks a little more than the other characters. Personally I liked her extra VOs, and half the time when I play I've got Pandora going so loud that the game audio is completely drowned out anyway.

Andthisis the only way to go for Spec Throw imo. Course I've also used 257 jeweler orbs and still cannot 6S my fucking Voll's Protector--nevermind the unfusing bullshit that comes after that--and that was definitely the final straw for me.
 

lindz

#DDs
1,201
63
Ugh crafting is so stressful. I have been dummy shopping all day and got my full CI set for incredibly cheap including a really nice 600es armor (unlinked). I figure it will cost me 4-5 exalteds to buy this armor 5 linked, so ideally I don't want to spend more than about 2ex to fuse it to a 5L. I got it on my 96th fusing, which on Domination is exactly 2ex. Such a miserable experience but hey, I got a 5L, 600ES chest for beans compared to what it is really worth.
 

Furry

WoW Office
<Gold Donor>
19,680
24,925
came back to this game after a gigantic hiatus. They have definitely come along pretty far. My only complaint is the blantant ripping of D2. Its not bad, but I really wish they would of gone for at the very least a more cleaned up version of it. Not a game I'll sink tons of time into, but its good enough to scratch the ocassional arpg itch.