Path of Exile

Borzak

Borzak

Bronze Baron of the Realm
24,657
32,027
Poison so far is "ok", but I definelty need to buff my speed on it. Whirling blades into a pack, hit viper strike, whirling blade out and hear the loot alert 3 different times for the next 45 seconds lol as shit dies.

I don't think impale shows anything in PoB for the damage affecting cyclone. I don't think he ever got around to it.
 
Warmuth

Warmuth

Molten Core Raider
869
493
Deathwing said:
Cyclone's dps is pretty low on "problem" list. Do you have a PoB showing it doing as much dps as a chaos conversion character? So, I don't understand how nerfing impale's interaction with cyclone actually accomplishes anything.
Click to expand...

I don’t see how it needs nerfing otherwise. Impale is an enormous more multiplier that is getting stacked at super speed because of the aps cyclone puts out. Its worth millions of dps. The best watchers eye you can get doesn’t even grant a single stat, it just makes impale last for two extra hits. Granted, every impale skill wants it but they’re not on cyclones level. No one cares if heavy strike does 50m dps. I’m fine with the aoe of cyclone, I’m fine with the channeling, the damage while moving, all the things that make it such a nice skill to use. I think it has more single target damage than it should and it can be easily lowered by removing impale interaction. Just my opinion, everyone’s got one. As for chaos conversion stuff, I have no idea, I’ve seen divine ire one shot shaper and stuff like that but yawn. Which of them are fun to play? I’ll check them out.

Not everyone’s going to agree obviously but the entire time I played cyclone I had the thought that there’s no way this isnt getting nerfed. I would hate to see the playstyle of it gone though.
 
ronne

ronne

Nǐ hǎo, yǒu jīn zi ma?
7,931
7,096
Cyclone damage isn't even that crazy in the context of other abilities really. The issue with cyclone is it invalidates literally every other melee skill because of its enormous AE/clearspeed since you never have to stop moving.

Nerfing the damage on it won't change anything unless they dumpster it so hard you literally cannot boss with it, and eve then you can probably brute force it with conversion builds. The only way they are getting people off cyclone is massively reducing the AE/movespeed, or increasing the clear/AE/speed of other melee skills significantly.

Removing the huge damage penalties for melee splash and ancestral call would be a good start imo. Would let people play something like infernal blow or whatever without having to constantly gem swap.
 
Borzak

Borzak

Bronze Baron of the Realm
24,657
32,027
It's a skill all in one. Damage, movement, and can get 5 support skills for it and not need splash, ancestral call, multistrike etc...Kind of does it all in one skill.
 
Nirgon

Nirgon

YOU HAVE NO POWER HERE
12,756
19,676
Borzak said:
Poison so far is "ok", but I definelty need to buff my speed on it. Whirling blades into a pack, hit viper strike, whirling blade out and hear the loot alert 3 different times for the next 45 seconds lol as shit dies.
Click to expand...
Love those hit and run dagger builds
 
Deathwing

Deathwing

<Bronze Donator>
16,409
7,408
Warmuth said:
I don’t see how it needs nerfing otherwise. Impale is an enormous more multiplier that is getting stacked at super speed because of the aps cyclone puts out. Its worth millions of dps. The best watchers eye you can get doesn’t even grant a single stat, it just makes impale last for two extra hits. Granted, every impale skill wants it but they’re not on cyclones level. No one cares if heavy strike does 50m dps. I’m fine with the aoe of cyclone, I’m fine with the channeling, the damage while moving, all the things that make it such a nice skill to use. I think it has more single target damage than it should and it can be easily lowered by removing impale interaction. Just my opinion, everyone’s got one. As for chaos conversion stuff, I have no idea, I’ve seen divine ire one shot shaper and stuff like that but yawn. Which of them are fun to play? I’ll check them out.

Not everyone’s going to agree obviously but the entire time I played cyclone I had the thought that there’s no way this isnt getting nerfed. I would hate to see the playstyle of it gone though.
Click to expand...
It needs nerfing for the same reason worb got dumpstered this patch: too much of everything in one skill. Now, I'm not strictly advocating for nerfs, but it's objectively harder for them to bring everything up to the level of 3.6 WOrb or 3.7 Cyclone than it is to nerf one skill.

You can look at WOrb's history to see how nerfing impale's interaction with cyclone will do absolutely nothing. 3.5 -> 3.6, they nerfed the damage and damage effectiveness on WOrb. The result? It became even more popular, comprising 40% of Synthesis and 50% of the flashback. Stormbrand fits the same trajectory except no one talks about it because WOrb eclipsed it in popularity.

If you nerf just the impale damage of cyclone it will remain just as popular because mechanics.

It probably needs a more severe penalty to movement speed or less interaction between melee range and area of effect. Other melee skills need less reliance on Ancestral Call and Melee Splash. 1 or 2 of those gems probably should go on the passive tree somewhere.

ALSO, fixing crit calculations will do a lot for all builds that use Cyclone as a CoC trigger. I tried Mathil's bow CoC build recently and I had to give up on it because I fucking hate the inconsistency of pumping 9+ Barrage arrows in a target and NONE of them crit because most skills calculate crit per activation. Cyclone does not, so it feels so much nicer to use as a CoC trigger.
 
  • 1Like
Reactions: 1 user
Nirgon

Nirgon

YOU HAVE NO POWER HERE
12,756
19,676
Diamond flask really does wonders for crits

If ur under 30% crit on skill diamond won't help much and ur doing it wrong
 
Deathwing

Deathwing

<Bronze Donator>
16,409
7,408
It does, I'm over 80% crit chance with a diamond flask. I value consistency because it lets you develop a rhythm and muscle memory. Having your CoC trigger fail to proc any spells even once in a while can be dangerous because it can mean your sustain goes to shit, you don't freeze nor kill anything, maybe get stunned, etc.

In a nutshell, feelsbadman. Even if that's rarely, you(or I'm full blown autist and it just bothers me) still notice it and puts a damper on the build. The build had other issues too, like Tornado Shot but much better for clear while Barrage being much better for fat rares and bosses. The dichotomy made itself known enough that it disrupted the aforementioned rhythm and muscle memory probably more the crit inconsistency.
 
Nirgon

Nirgon

YOU HAVE NO POWER HERE
12,756
19,676
Really glad to be spared the whole lucky crits technically means 40 and 40 not 80 stuff. Who gives a fuck what it is, use the diamond anyways in the crit build lol.

The Poe boards have some unreal neckbeards and tards. Restraining myself from ranting.
 
Warmuth

Warmuth

Molten Core Raider
869
493
Deathwing said:
It needs nerfing for the same reason worb got dumpstered this patch: too much of everything in one skill. Now, I'm not strictly advocating for nerfs, but it's objectively harder for them to bring everything up to the level of 3.6 WOrb or 3.7 Cyclone than it is to nerf one skill.

You can look at WOrb's history to see how nerfing impale's interaction with cyclone will do absolutely nothing. 3.5 -> 3.6, they nerfed the damage and damage effectiveness on WOrb. The result? It became even more popular, comprising 40% of Synthesis and 50% of the flashback. Stormbrand fits the same trajectory except no one talks about it because WOrb eclipsed it in popularity.

If you nerf just the impale damage of cyclone it will remain just as popular because mechanics.

It probably needs a more severe penalty to movement speed or less interaction between melee range and area of effect. Other melee skills need less reliance on Ancestral Call and Melee Splash. 1 or 2 of those gems probably should go on the passive tree somewhere.

ALSO, fixing crit calculations will do a lot for all builds that use Cyclone as a CoC trigger. I tried Mathil's bow CoC build recently and I had to give up on it because I fucking hate the inconsistency of pumping 9+ Barrage arrows in a target and NONE of them crit because most skills calculate crit per activation. Cyclone does not, so it feels so much nicer to use as a CoC trigger.
Click to expand...

If cyclone is still doing 10m dps with an ounce of effort it’s going to get played. It would have to be turned into a name lock skill to get people off of it. I didn’t do all the content i this league easier than ever before because I had huge aoe or moved quick. It was because I killed or phased every single boss basically instantly. Moving while doing it helped a tremendous deal on Uber elder but moving slower while channeling wouldn’t have mattered much really.

There are a lot of other skills that can disentigrate bosses but usually have some downside that cyclone doesn’t have. I still would rather see a great skill that needs longer to kill high hp targets than a skill that’s pedestrian but still has all the dps it can handle.
 
Thregin

Thregin

Blackwing Lair Raider
743
228
I mean i realize i could've trained myself to release the cyclone button before leap slamming but that felt like a pita. So i'm really happy about the last patch.
 
Deathwing

Deathwing

<Bronze Donator>
16,409
7,408
Warmuth said:
If cyclone is still doing 10m dps with an ounce of effort it’s going to get played. It would have to be turned into a name lock skill to get people off of it. I didn’t do all the content i this league easier than ever before because I had huge aoe or moved quick. It was because I killed or phased every single boss basically instantly. Moving while doing it helped a tremendous deal on Uber elder but moving slower while channeling wouldn’t have mattered much really.

There are a lot of other skills that can disentigrate bosses but usually have some downside that cyclone doesn’t have. I still would rather see a great skill that needs longer to kill high hp targets than a skill that’s pedestrian but still has all the dps it can handle.
Click to expand...
Power creep is going to ensure that tuning an ability's viability via dps is the worst option.


Thregin Thregin what did they change last patch regarding leap slam and cyclone? I haven't been maining that build for a bit, so I might not have picked up on it.
 
Warmuth

Warmuth

Molten Core Raider
869
493
Deathwing said:
Power creep is going to ensure that tuning an ability's viability via dps is the worst option.


Thregin Thregin what did they change last patch regarding leap slam and cyclone? I haven't been maining that build for a bit, so I might not have picked up on it.
Click to expand...

I guess we'll see what they decide to do. No ones calling for sweep nerfs. It's cyclone on max clunk setting. Same aoe, same clear speed(at least on a berserker) way, way, way less damage. If it had cyclone damage people would be paying attention. Between playing the two skills the only thing I could give a damn about, and admittedly this is just my opinion, is the damage difference.
 
Caeden

Caeden

Silver Baronet of the Realm
7,369
11,941
At the end of the day, the legion content is fucking fun but melee continues to be a dumpster fire. It’s disheartening for those of us that love to smack shit in the face.

Might be time to take a league off.
 
  • 1Like
Reactions: 1 user
Borzak

Borzak

Bronze Baron of the Realm
24,657
32,027
I would guess that most of the stuff people wanted to do with Cyclone has been done by now for the most part. Too little too late if they want to change it now. Maybe if they wanted to make an impact for next league but no telling what they will change in the next league that will need tuning.
 
Thregin

Thregin

Blackwing Lair Raider
743
228
Deathwing said:
Power creep is going to ensure that tuning an ability's viability via dps is the worst option.


Thregin Thregin what did they change last patch regarding leap slam and cyclone? I haven't been maining that build for a bit, so I might not have picked up on it.
Click to expand...

www.pathofexile.com

Announcements - 3.7.3d Patch Notes - Forum - Path of Exile

Path of Exile is a free online-only action RPG under development by Grinding Gear Games in New Zealand.
www.pathofexile.com www.pathofexile.com
- Fixed a bug where non-channelled movement skills that were used while channelling a skill would be used twice.

That line. But it felt worse than what you probably think from this change. Cause the 2nd leap would basically be to the same place so you'd get 1 leap slam of distance in the time of 2 leap slams (and 1 leap slam duration of lost dps). Like i said i could've played better but this was obviously a bug so felt like too much of a pita to me so this was a big qol improvement.
 
  • 1Like
Reactions: 1 user
Deathwing

Deathwing

<Bronze Donator>
16,409
7,408
Thregin said:
www.pathofexile.com

Announcements - 3.7.3d Patch Notes - Forum - Path of Exile

Path of Exile is a free online-only action RPG under development by Grinding Gear Games in New Zealand.
www.pathofexile.com www.pathofexile.com
- Fixed a bug where non-channelled movement skills that were used while channelling a skill would be used twice.

That line. But it felt worse than what you probably think from this change. Cause the 2nd leap would basically be to the same place so you'd get 1 leap slam of distance in the time of 2 leap slams (and 1 leap slam duration of lost dps). Like i said i could've played better but this was obviously a bug so felt like too much of a pita to me so this was a big qol improvement.
Click to expand...
Oh, I macro fixed that a while ago.
 
Jonkimble

Jonkimble

Lord Nagafen Raider
624
202
My favourite part about cyclone is that I never had to swap gems for any reason, especially since they introduced pulverize to replace Inc AoE for me. IMO nerfing the AoE for cyclone is needed. Why does it need to hit almost the entire screen? It has everything else going for it. Give the giant screen clear capabilities to shit like Ground Slam and Sweep. Nerfing damage I don't think will do much because almost everything in this game does too much damage. If cyclone wants to be the premier mobile "melee" skill, it shouldn't be near the top of the AoE charts either.
 
S

Spark

Golden Knight of the Realm
123
21
Been playing for 3 hours straight tonight running maps nonstop. There was a Niko map right off the bat when I logged on but no others in the 3 hours since. I've gotten multiple maps of the other NPC's in that time frame. Is Niko not supposed to spawn as much as the others? I can't sustain any kind of delve farming since I started playing standard again.

I've looked for posts on sulphite farming but all I can find are useless discussions that are from 2018 and some things have been patched since then. Seems like the only time Niko spawns in a map for me is if I log off for hours at a time.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.