Path of Exile

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LiquidDeath

Magnus Deadlift the Fucktiger
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Purely on the topic of those challenges - Yes, that play time is probably cutting it close. The challenges as designed are pretty grindy, and that has little to do with your gear or whether you craft or trade, once you have a certain level of gear on your character. Is your problem getting through yellow maps? No? Once you are doing red maps, all the challenges are just a matter of time.

If you want to open an argument about 36/40 being too time intensive, then I am actually on your side. My last 36 was years ago. But, that's my casual-ass point of view, and plenty of players would see no problem with 36/40. On the matter of challenges, I've not been held back by gear, only my own time. There are always those "do a few more hundred runs of the league mechanic", "just do another 1000 map bosses" type of challenges that stop me from getting 36. And that's just grind.

I disagree about it not being gear dependent. This league I got to beginning red maps with a build that, I found out during playing, has some pretty hard breaks in terms of gearing. To progress further I needed some uniques and/or rares that had to be crafted or bought. I didn't make it past week 3 because the trade site shit itself and there was no feasible way to get gear, even when messaging the entire first page of results on the trade site. Oh, and I played more than just 15 hours a week for those 3 weeks.

Could I have picked a better build to mitigate this issue somewhat? Sure, I could have, but that brings us back to the "what the hell is the point" argument. Why have all of this supposed build diversity when you are pigeonholed into a handful of builds that can successfully mitigate the gearing quagmire that has been purposefully designed into the game? It still amounts to more time spent outside the game then actually just playing the goddamn game, and that has become my experience enough leagues in a row that I am done unless and until they do something about it. I was hopeful that Harvest was that thing, but it was just a shitshow.
 
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Caeden

Silver Baronet of the Realm
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I think 36 challenges should be fucking hard to do. This league it was pretty easy imo. Most of the “hard” ones could be traded for easily (barring player interaction). I think I play an average of 2-4 hours per night with a night here and there away along with usually 4-5 hours per day on weekends and this was a super easy 36. I tap out at 24-28 usually because I don’t care.

that said, I agree that trade is fucking broken and that crafting is shit. Harvest is a bandaid, but it’s a terrible one because it’s both not compelling gameplay and extremely intrusive on the loop. I’d rather it be orb based, tradeable, or unlocked to your bench somehow for many exalts (all things said). I think allowing double influence items to not be harvest crafted would have been good enough and let influence items continue to be crafted and remove none of the crafts. Essentially agree with Path of Matth. GGG is out of touch imo.

I saw a Reddit post I agree with. This game is falling into the same issue that I had around the time I hit cataclysm/panda land with WoW. Job and life too busy to piss away time raiding. POE came out in 2012. A whole smattering of its playerbase has had 8 years on it and are probably hitting 30-34 and family/career is hitting hard for time.

honestly, it makes me want to re-evaluate. I took the game up in delve after dicking around in standard some for a year off and on. Two kids, job, wife. It was sorta perfect for me when the whole kids thing forces you into not going out and getting drunk and passing out naked on your sofa next to your wife. Now, yeah. Feels like a less rewarding time waster.

but fuck, still very fun game.
 
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Byr

Ahn'Qiraj Raider
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Is your argument that 60 hours a month in the league shouldn't be enough to complete the challenges? How exactly do you propose gear progression when the trade site has been literally broken nearly this entire league? What fucking way can I "choose" to play the game that lets me bypass this bullshit without being stuck playing one of a handful of mostly boring as hell builds that can deal with the lack of gear?

For someone who isn't willing to do anything to make his path easier despite being very limited on time, yes absolutely.
 
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LiquidDeath

Magnus Deadlift the Fucktiger
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For someone who isn't willing to do anything to make his path easier despite being very limited on time, yes absolutely.
Fuck off, no-lifer. I should have just seen the Blackwing Lair Raider tag and knew what kind of idiocy you would endorse in video games.
 

Byr

Ahn'Qiraj Raider
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4,928
Fuck off, no-lifer. I should have just seen the Blackwing Lair Raider tag and knew what kind of idiocy you would endorse in video games.

You remind me of the people arguing about systemic racism. Sure they are autonomous and able to make their own decisions for how they interact with society, in your case the game, but its not their fault they make bad decisions its the system/government, PoE/GGG.
 

LiquidDeath

Magnus Deadlift the Fucktiger
4,831
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You remind me of the people arguing about systemic racism. Sure they are autonomous and able to make their own decisions for how they interact with society, in your case the game, but its not their fault they make bad decisions its the system/government, PoE/GGG.
You remind me of people who make fucking stupid analogies that don't address any of the issues presented.
 
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OU Ariakas

Diet Dr. Pepper Enjoyer
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You remind me of the people arguing about systemic racism. Sure they are autonomous and able to make their own decisions for how they interact with society, in your case the game, but its not their fault they make bad decisions its the system/government, PoE/GGG.

What do you call a game that touts itself as having thousands of item types, billions of items that can roll, a near infinite skill tree and hundreds of hours a gameplay?

Sounds exciting to me!

What do you call a game that touts itself as having thousands of item types, billions of items that can roll, a near infinite skill tree and hundreds of hours a gameplay.... except 99% of all of that promise is trash that wont allow you to play the game because you're not playing the path of least resistance that the dev's want you to play?

That sounds like a game with a ton of promise and a retarded fucking dev team.

I await your latest m'lady.
 
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Byr

Ahn'Qiraj Raider
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What do you call a game that touts itself as having thousands of item types, billions of items that can roll, a near infinite skill tree and hundreds of hours a gameplay?

Sounds exciting to me!

What do you call a game that touts itself as having thousands of item types, billions of items that can roll, a near infinite skill tree and hundreds of hours a gameplay.... except 99% of all of that promise is trash that wont allow you to play the game because you're not playing the path of least resistance that the dev's want you to play?

That sounds like a game with a ton of promise and a retarded fucking dev team.

I await your latest m'lady.

Sounds like Diablo 3 vs PoE. I wonder why you arn't playing Diablo 3.
 
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Borzak

Bronze Baron of the Realm
24,422
31,638
I'll go back to "anything change for the better long term after one of this long manifestos"?
 
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Byr

Ahn'Qiraj Raider
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Oh, so you're a retard too.

I didn't realize you were so attached to the skill tree. A game that touts itself as having thousands of item types, billions of items that can roll and hundreds of hours a gameplay that is accessible to even people who play very little is Diablo 3. Why would you want PoE to be more like that?
 
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OU Ariakas

Diet Dr. Pepper Enjoyer
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I didn't realize you were so attached to the skill tree. A game that touts itself as having thousands of item types, billions of items that can roll and hundreds of hours a gameplay that is accessible to even people who play very little is Diablo 3. Why would you want PoE to be more like that?

So now you're retarded and a disingenuous cunt!

Diablo 3 may tout itself as that, but it has retarded developers too that limited the number of items for each class to around 10 and the rolls on those items to hundreds of thousands at best.

At least their team explained that they were limiting choices, making one set of items clearly superior, and targeting different skills as the must haves for each season.

GGG does the same thing but veils it behind increased player choice and waits for no lifers like you to carry their feces ridden water.
 
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Il_Duce Lightning Lord Rule

Lightning Fast
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Fuck off, no-lifer. I should have just seen the Blackwing Lair Raider tag and knew what kind of idiocy you would endorse in video games.
Just FYI, the Blackwing Lair Raider title is a default title that people get after so many posts and a few other criteria. It's not something anyone picks... unless they're being cheeky.
 

Byr

Ahn'Qiraj Raider
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So now you're retarded and a disingenuous cunt!

Diablo 3 may tout itself as that, but it has retarded developers too that limited the number of items for each class to around 10 and the rolls on those items to hundreds of thousands at best.

At least their team explained that they were limiting choices, making one set of items clearly superior, and targeting different skills as the must haves for each season.

GGG does the same thing but veils it behind increased player choice and waits for no lifers like you to carry their feces ridden water.

But here you are arguing for a system that ultimately limits choices you need to make about items because you can deterministically get the one you want like in Diablo 3. Again, why would you want a game more like Diablo 3s itemization? The perfect example of this would be to look at amulets made for ED/Contagion characters this league. They are all wearing the exact same +2 gems, + chaos multi amulet even if they all made them independently.
 
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LiquidDeath

Magnus Deadlift the Fucktiger
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Just FYI, the Blackwing Lair Raider title is a default title that people get after so many posts and a few other criteria. It's not something anyone picks... unless they're being cheeky.

Oh, so Byr just happens to have all the same views on gameplay mechanics and rewards as the OG WoW no-lifers?

My bad.
 

LiquidDeath

Magnus Deadlift the Fucktiger
4,831
11,118
But here you are arguing for a system that ultimately limits choices you need to make about items because you can deterministically get the one you want like in Diablo 3. Again, why would you want a game more like Diablo 3s itemization? The perfect example of this would be to look at amulets made for ED/Contagion characters this league. They are all wearing the exact same +2 gems, + chaos multi amulet even if they all made them independently.
fans GIF


You are suggesting that because a build has an ultimate BIS gear piece in a slot that it limits choices?

You are literally retarded.

"Durrr, look guys, only .01% of the people playing ED/Contagion have the same +2 chaos/chaos multi amulet and everyone else has some combination of sub-optimal gear. Look at all the choices and build diversity that creates! Duuuurrrrr."

Next you're going to tell me that Righteous Fire builds all look the same because they all stack life regen/max fire resistance and that limits their choices and their build diversity. Moron.
 
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Byr

Ahn'Qiraj Raider
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You are suggesting that because a build has an ultimate BIS gear piece in a slot that it limits choices?

Actually thats the argument Ariakas was making about Diablo 3. Gear can roll in a billion different ways in Diablo 3 but only a few pieces are worth using and so he decided that the billions didn't matter. It was applicable to PoE because Harvest makes that BIS piece of gear deterministically attainable much like Diablo 3.
 
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LiquidDeath

Magnus Deadlift the Fucktiger
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Actually thats the argument Ariakas was making about Diablo 3. Gear can roll in a billion different ways in Diablo 3 but only a few pieces are worth using and so he decided that the billions didn't matter. It was applicable to PoE because Harvest makes that BIS piece of gear deterministically attainable much like Diablo 3.

Got it.

You confirmed you're making the argument that BIS gear in PoE with Harvest is equivalently attainable to BIS gear in D3. That lets everyone know your opinions can be dismissed without thought since it is fucking stupid.
 
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OU Ariakas

Diet Dr. Pepper Enjoyer
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Actually thats the argument Ariakas was making about Diablo 3. Gear can roll in a billion different ways in Diablo 3 but only a few pieces are worth using and so he decided that the billions didn't matter. It was applicable to PoE because Harvest makes that BIS piece of gear deterministically attainable much like Diablo 3.

They are two sides of the same retarded coin. In the simplton D3 side you have to grind for hundreds of hours to get anything BIS because they made the moronic decision to take away trading (afrer admitting it was wildly popular) and made drops tailored to the class. On the autistic side POE wants you to grind 100s of hours to get the currency to try and make something BIS because they made the moronic decision to take away any type of deterministic crafting (after admitting it was wildly popular) and go back to a system akin to slamming your dick in the door.

Congratulations for admitting you are autistic and suggesting everyone else is probably normal to not enjoy your level of autism.
 

Pyros

<Silver Donator>
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They are two sides of the same retarded coin. In the simplton D3 side you have to grind for hundreds of hours to get anything BIS because they made the moronic decision to take away trading (afrer admitting it was wildly popular) and made drops tailored to the class. On the autistic side POE wants you to grind 100s of hours to get the currency to try and make something BIS because they made the moronic decision to take away any type of deterministic crafting (after admitting it was wildly popular) and go back to a system akin to slamming your dick in the door.

Congratulations for admitting you are autistic and suggesting everyone else is probably normal to not enjoy your level of autism.
To be fair, grinding for gear is the core loop of Diablo-likes. There's kinda nothing else to do, there's a one time story originally but past that, you just grind to get better gear to grind faster, until you decide to reroll and grind gear again on that new build/class.

The way you grind is immensely important. You use D3 as a "retarded" way but I'd say it's overall fairly good at it. You first grind for your good gear, that's your set+whatever items go in the cube powers. Then you can grind for better version of the items(ancients or whatever they were called), which are slight improvements, but ultimately the build is functional once you have all the base items. There's no trading, so you have to grind yourself, but the grinding, at least for the first basic set is actually pretty smooth and easy. There's another layer of masochistic grinding after that if you want, or if you don't want you just roll another class or try another build within the same class, until you get bored. Also season objectives.

In PoE however, you almost never farm for your own gear. Instead you prioritize farming currency, which you then use to buy your gear from either lucky people, or from people who spend their entire time flipping currency and crafting high end stuff that's absolutely not worth trying to make yourself. A few things you can craft yourself with like fossils and stuff, but the truly good gear you just buy. Even uniques, which aren't hidden behind a stupid layer of initial currency investment and all the crafting loops, are so rare that most of the time you're still better off buying than trying to grind(with the one deterministic loot system, cards, and that's assuming there's cards for the item you want which is another issue). The entire gearing process is basically based on trading, because it's assumed you can't reasonably progress on your own. You can do SSF obviously, but unless you're one of those streamers that play the game 12+hours a day for weeks on end, which realistically most people aren't going to be, you only have a limited amount of viable builds that aren't too gear reliant.

As much as I prefer PoE over D3 for many reasons, the gearing/loot systems aren't it. I'd much rather just not have to trade for anything, have uniques being common(which still wouldn't make all of them very easy to attain cause there's like what, 1000s of uniques nowadays? So even if they all had the same weight and they dropped every minute, it'd still take you dozens of hours to get the right ones) and have deterministic simplified crafting with bench being cheaper/more powerful, fossils and harvest and whatever else, so you can craft your own shit on your own with your own currency and get good gear without requiring a mirror worth of currency to make the items. They could still have trading on top.

Obviously they're not interested in doing that at all however, they seem to think making it too easy to obtain your own items would shorten the lifespan of new leagues, which I honestly don't know if that's the case, they might be right. I'll just say I don't like the current system. I can live with it and play by its rules, but I don't like it and much prefer the D3 "do it yourself" approach and I feel the game would be a lot better like that, even if it was in SSF only(but they've said repeatedly they don't want to bother doing any change to SSF only).