Racism - Lets keep it civil. Also, Gravy is white.

Tarrant

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So I was having a discussion with a friend on Facebook this morning about this topic. It all started when he posted this picture.

rrr_img_110912.jpg


Reading this bothered me a bit so I responded with this and this was the brief discussion we had.

Me: Serious question; Hypothetically, if said black kid in said situation were a white kid instead and died, would it still be considered racism?

Him: Not in my opinion.

Me: Isn't that in itself, racism?

Him: Nope, and here's why, I've learned that one of the biggest reasons conversations like this end badly, or why people can't seem to get on the same page is that people are working off of different definitions of what racism actually is. Some people see racism as one race vs another, black person doesn't like white people that's racism. Other people see racism as a systematic oppression of a minority group. The former is certainly a person with a bigoted opinion, while I see the latter as racism.

Me: But isn't the root or racism is the lack of equality between races? If you take one situation, play the scenario twice with two different races and react one one to one and the opposite to the other, isn't that the very definition of racism?

Him: I very much disagree.

Me: "Racism consists of ideologies and practices that seek to justify, or cause, the unequal distribution of privileges, rights, or goods amongst, or otherwise exhibit hatred or prejudice towards, different racial groups." - I don't get how you disagree when it's the very definition of it.

Him: I can't explain it any different so there isn't anything for me to say other than to repeat myself.


I didn't respond again after that. The majority of this guys posts are about racism and I felt like I was making a decent point. Now keep in mind I'm not saying we should have tried to justify anyone's death, I was just using the scenario and example given to me as that was what started everything off.

How do you define racism? On that same token, what are the best ways we can combat it? What ways have you encountered it or been a target of it? Also, was I onto something here at all or am, I wrong? I'm wrong a lot so it wouldn't surprise me.
 

Erronius

Macho Ma'am
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This thread is going to be like a bat-signal for some people, but instead of a bat in the night sky it's going to be a giant letter "N"
 

Slaythe

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I don't think either of you are wrong, but I agree with him that the "systematic oppression of a minority group" side of it is the important part in modern day racial tension. Your argument, at least to me, is more along the lines of "yeah, but technically..." You aren't wrong. Technically, reverse the situation and it's still the very definition of racism, but that doesn't have much to do with the social movement this guy is backing.

That's how I see it at least.
 

Tarrant

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I don't think either of you are wrong, but I agree with him that the "systematic oppression of a minority group" side of it is the important part in modern day racial tension. Your argument, at least to me, is more along the lines of "yeah, but technically..." You aren't wrong. Technically, reverse the situation and it's still the very definition of racism, but that doesn't have much to do with the social movement this guy is backing.

That's how I see it at least.
No, you're right. And I know that racism on that side of the isle is much stronger than on my (the white) side, thus the moment is stronger and much more vocal. I just feel that it's counter productive to both sides if you use hypocritical examples and even acknowledge that it's a double standard as well.

I guess I don't have an answer to a better way to do things either, just something that struck me this morning and thought I'd discuss it.
 

LachiusTZ

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Fuck off Tarrant.

Basically, isn't that guy just a sjw?

I work in a 95%+ black work place, in a federal agency, and have a racism discussion at least once a week. It goes the other way a lot, but you don't have the white guilt and feels to ride to head lines.

The real interesting dynamics are within black culture, not the dynamics from the culture to the other cultures. That shit had been beaten to death and everyone that wants to be informed on it is.

Basically, you should find higher caliber friends. That guy is a clown, and you should harass him until he de friends you.
 

Soygen

The Dirty Dozen For the Price of One
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This has been covered a million times in the oft-hated GamerGate thread. Far left SJW-types have tried to redefine racism as prejudice + power. This allows them to be as racist as they like to whites or other majority groups that they deem to be in power. It's pointless to directly engage these types of morons.
 

Chanur

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Yes but that is outside the grown up thread hugbox Soygen.
 

Tarrant

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I guess I'm not familiar with the SJW term as I avoid the gamer gate thread. I'll have go to the Googles.

But Soy, from what you're saying I've gathered they are akin to the feminists that demand gender equality and then bash men in the same breath?
 

Cad

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This has been covered a million times in the oft-hated GamerGate thread. Far left SJW-types have tried to redefine racism as prejudice + power. This allows them to be as racist as they like to whites or other majority groups that they deem to be in power. It's pointless to directly engage these types of morons.
^^ Truth
 

Cad

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Why? This is literally the only place on the forum where it won't turn into a shit show and people will be shawed who try to.
The thing is, it's really not a complex issue.

There's a couple of different ways to see racism.

1> All races are inherently equal, treating races differently in any way is racism, and racism is fundamentally evil.
1a> But only prejudice + power = racism, if you lack social power you can't be racist.
2> All races are inherently equal and most of what we see as racial differences are cultural differences, and treating people differently based on race is stupidity in general
3> Races are not inherently equal, treating different races differently is ok

Thats basically the positions, everyone falls into one of them, and only 3 is really wrong, but 1a just makes you an sjw homo.
 

Draegan_sl

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OK here's a serious answer: racism is when you're shitty to another person because they're not like you.

Anything else and you're over complicating things just for the sake of putting a label on someone's motivations.
 

iannis

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Usually when someone resorts to "I can't explain it any other way" it's a yellow flag. They probably don't understand, or have not fully examined, the opinion that they hold.

In his case specifically he's talking about systemic institutional racism. And his solution is more systemic institutional racism. No wonder he can't explain it any other way. If he said what he actually meant (and it sounds like he realizes what he means) he might just realize how dumb it is. Sometimes it takes saying it out loud.
 

Draegan_sl

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I'm also locking this thread if hodj posts more than 200 words in it. If he hits his limit in 3 or less posts he gets shawed for a week.

I'm also not counting words so I'll be going on feels data.
 

iannis

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He's one of those "I'm only intolerant of intolerance" fags.

Every last one of those is a liar.
 

Tarrant

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The thing is, it's really not a complex issue.

There's a couple of different ways to see racism.

1> All races are inherently equal, treating races differently in any way is racism, and racism is fundamentally evil.
1a> But only prejudice + power = racism, if you lack social power you can't be racist.
2> All races are inherently equal and most of what we see as racial differences are cultural differences, and treating people differently based on race is stupidity in general
3> Races are not inherently equal, treating different races differently is ok

Thats basically the positions, everyone falls into one of them, and only 3 is really wrong, but 1a just makes you an sjw homo.
That's a pretty good break down I think, thanks Cad.
 

Tenks

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I think the issue is when you really dislike a certain sector of the race's culture but then you try and blanket that over everyone. Such as if you dislike the Ferguson race riots. Since 99% (possibly 100%) of the people participating were black you try and act like all black people are Ferguson race rioters. Which they are not. It is fine and dandy to be upset with that individual sector but to then try and broadcast that hatred wider is where the issue comes. Such as I also hate Northern whites who fly the confederate flag and are overall just ignorant, uneducated people. Well I'm a Northern white as well. But never would I broadcast that everyone in Ohio is an ignorant bigot simply because a small sector is.