Should you tip the waitress and how much thread

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Draegan_sl

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Also this whole "subsidize labor costs" is a stupid argument. It saves you money in the long run.

And tax evasion? Really? That pisses you off? Someone making $30k to 40k a year is skipping out on a few extra thousand dollars a year and you're butthurt on that? I'd like to be the first person to inform you that mostly everyone cheats on their taxes in some form or another; legal or otherwise.
 
Quaid

Quaid

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Eomer_sl said:
Again, the majority of the planet doesn't have this system. Just North America. It works well elsewhere. Why is the North American service industry a unique and special butterfly?

And yet the rest of the world seems to have figured this kind of shit out, whether talking about other industries in North America, or the service/restaurant industry everywhere else. Why is the North American restaurant industry so incompetent that they can't?.
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This is why:

Countries Compared by Cost of living McDonalds meal. International Statistics at NationMaster.com

Countries Compared by Cost of living 3 course meal for 2. International Statistics at NationMaster.com
 
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Draegan_sl

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Cad_sl said:
Its not adjusting the price to the consumer though. Just adjusting the mode of distribution. Taking that 15% and just giving it to the restaurant in terms of higher prices means nothing to the consumer because they are tipping it anyway.
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In order to keep the same take home pay (pre-tax) to the waiter, you would have to increase food costs more than the average tip percentage. Not only are you increasing labor costs naturally by shifting payment into a paycheck you are also vastly increasing operational costs of the restaurant. There are also other factors involved that I have noted already.
 
OneofOne

OneofOne

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Draegan_sl said:
Name me another business that employs, on average, 10-30 employees per shift that suddenly had to adjust price of products or services to make up $10-15 an hour per employee.
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What Cad said, and several of us have been saying all along - is that you stupid fucks ALREADY pay that higher price. You simply add it to the bill yourself instead of the business doing it (and many of you overpay even in that - meaning in a tipless world, many of you jugheads would actually pay LESS to go out and eat). Hell, you already have non-tip establishments popping up here in the US that seem to be able to make ends meet.
 
Abefroman

Abefroman

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Draegan_sl said:
Explain.
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Banks used to be able to hire tons of temps to deal with market fluctuations. Because of federal regulations now underwriters have to be full time employees because of privacy issues. So now they have to over hire and then layoff paying them more for full time employees. The underwriters now also are working a lot of overtime and a lot of them are making around 25+ an hour without overtime instead of not having overtime and paying someone 15. I'm for tipping btw.
 
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Draegan_sl

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OneofOne_sl said:
What Cad said, and several of us have been saying all along - is that you stupid fucks ALREADY pay that higher price. You simply add it to the bill yourself instead of the business doing it (and many of you overpay even in that - meaning in a tipless world, many of you jugheads would actually pay LESS to go out and eat). Hell, you already have non-tip establishments popping up here in the US that seem to be able to make ends meet.
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This is wrong. The margin in the restaurant business (not alcohol) is incredibly thin. Shifts in the food supply (milk, cheese, beef etc.) can ruin a restaurant. Currently if you tip between 15 and 20 percent, you are actually saving money compared to having to pay waiter's a larger hourly wage.

If you were to go to a tip-less system you have a few different options:

1) Keep the same prices, but significantly reduce the quantity (and perhaps the quality of ingredients) of food per plate.
2) Keep the prices the same, but increase the responsibilities of the waiters per shift. This would resulting in a significant drop in service quality. Instead of operating 3-4 tables per waiter, it would likely double or triple.
3) Significantly increase the cost of food in order to meet the significant rise in labor costs. Just on pay alone (not payroll tax, unemployment insurance, etc.) You're going from $2.13 an hour in some states to $10-16 an hour. That is increasing the vast majority of your labor force cost by a factor of 4-8 times.
 
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Draegan_sl

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Abefroman_sl said:
Banks used to be able to hire tons of temps to deal with market fluctuations. Because of federal regulations now underwriters have to be full time employees because of privacy issues. So now they have to over hire and then layoff paying them more for full time employees. The underwriters now also are working a lot of overtime and a lot of them are making around 25+ an hour without overtime instead of not having overtime and paying someone 15. I'm for tipping btw.
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I don't think those two scenarios are comparable just because of the nature of the industries. Could be wrong though, but I'm hesitant to compare the service/restaurant industry to the banking industry and the effects of regulations.
 
Abefroman

Abefroman

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Draegan_sl said:
I don't think those two scenarios are comparable just because of the nature of the industries. Could be wrong though, but I'm hesitant to compare the service/restaurant industry to the banking industry and the effects of regulations.
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It isn't a direct comparison or really a fair one but it does answer your question. A restuarant just cant swallow a lose or make up the money like a bank can.
 
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Draegan_sl

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That's why I assumed it wasn't a very good comparison. But I guess you have a point where you have sudden labor cost increases I suppose, not really what I was looking for. But you knew that. Heh
 
Eomer

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Draegan_sl said:
Name me another business that employs, on average, 10-30 employees per shift that suddenly had to adjust price of products or services to make up $10-15 an hour per employee.
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Any retail business employs the same type of workers, on the same sorts of shifts. And have to deal with seasonal ups and downs etc. They don't have to deal with an increase in employment costs though,because they're not fucking over their employees and expecting their customers to top up their wages for them.Weird that the entire retail industry isn't going tits up, especially considering the kind of competition they're facing from online shopping that restaurants don't have to deal with.
 
Quaid

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Eomer_sl said:
Any retail business employs the same type of workers, on the same sorts of shifts. And have to deal with seasonal ups and downs etc. They don't have to deal with an increase in employment costs though,because they're not fucking over their employees and expecting their customers to top up their wages for them.Weird that the entire retail industry isn't going tits up, especially considering the kind of competition they're facing from online shopping that restaurants don't have to.
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If there were no tipping, do you honestly believe a person would serve tables for the same hourly wage that someone would work in a retail shop for?

Nobody in their right mind would serve tables for anything less than $16-20/hour. It's an awful job.
 
Cad

Cad

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Draegan_sl said:
This is wrong. The margin in the restaurant business (not alcohol) is incredibly thin. Shifts in the food supply (milk, cheese, beef etc.) can ruin a restaurant. Currently if you tip between 15 and 20 percent, you are actually saving money compared to having to pay waiter's a larger hourly wage.

If you were to go to a tip-less system you have a few different options:

1) Keep the same prices, but significantly reduce the quantity (and perhaps the quality of ingredients) of food per plate.
2) Keep the prices the same, but increase the responsibilities of the waiters per shift. This would resulting in a significant drop in service quality. Instead of operating 3-4 tables per waiter, it would likely double or triple.
3) Significantly increase the cost of food in order to meet the significant rise in labor costs. Just on pay alone (not payroll tax, unemployment insurance, etc.) You're going from $2.13 an hour in some states to $10-16 an hour. That is increasing the vast majority of your labor force cost by a factor of 4-8 times.
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Sorry, this is just completely wrong. The same amount of money tipless would be coming into the restaurant. Your gross receipts wouldn't be affected at all. Acting like SOMETHING WOULD HAVE TO GIVE BROS is just silly.

The only even kinda-sensible thing you've said is that due to tax evasion, waiters would make a little less if their income were legit. Guess what sport, "tax evasion is the cornerstone of our business!" isn't a selling point. Suck it up. You want to see how much I paid in fucking taxes last year? Fuck waiters.
 
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Draegan_sl

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Eomer_sl said:
Any retail business employs the same type of workers, on the same sorts of shifts. And have to deal with seasonal ups and downs etc. They don't have to deal with an increase in employment costs though,because they're not fucking over their employees and expecting their customers to top up their wages for them.Weird that the entire retail industry isn't going tits up, especially considering the kind of competition they're facing from online shopping that restaurants don't have to deal with.
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This whole "fucking over their employees" and other rationale you have going on is a completely weird infatuation. Why do you feel it odd that instead of increased food costs you have to tip based on performance. I don't really care about some unofficial ted talk someone found, I'm talking about you.

The retail industry plans for seasonal swings in needed labor. It's built in to the annual projects for cost. It's called running a business. You missed the whole point of my post. If every restaurant in a state (or large geographic area) suddenly had to go tip-less and go to a straight paid salary, what do you think would happen? This is a real question and not like "what if it was never like this way".
 
Eomer

Eomer

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Quaid_sl said:
If there were no tipping, do you honestly believe a person would serve tables for the same hourly wage that someone would work in a retail shop for?

Nobody in their right mind would serve tables for anything less than $16-20/hour. It's an awful job.
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Then that's what they'll have to pay. Let the market decide. And again, every other fucking country on the planet outside of the US and Canada (with a couple other exceptions) don't have a tipping system. Yet, bizarrely enough, they manage to pay their workers enough to retain them. And generally the service is pretty much the same.
 
Cad

Cad

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Draegan_sl said:
This whole "fucking over their employees" and other rationale you have going on is a completely weird infatuation. Why do you feel it odd that instead of increased food costs you have to tip based on performance. I don't really care about some unofficial ted talk someone found, I'm talking about you.

The retail industry plans for seasonal swings in needed labor. It's built in to the annual projects for cost. It's called running a business. You missed the whole point of my post. If every restaurant in a state (or large geographic area) suddenly had to go tip-less and go to a straight paid salary, what do you think would happen? This is a real question and not like "what if it was never like this way".
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The employer would have the risk in opening his business rather than pushing off a significant portion of that risk on 20-30k/yr employees.
 
Mures

Mures

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LOL at the servers saying they deserve tips because they have to deal with "stupid people" You sound like the guy in office space, "I have people skills, dammit!" Brilliant!, the us pay scale should be based on the number of "stupid people" you have to deal with every day. And stereotyping? Are you listening to yourself? Have you ever stopped to think maybe they give you a shitty tip because you admittedly stereotyped them as soon as they walked through the door and give them shitty service?
 
Abefroman

Abefroman

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Eomer_sl said:
Any retail business employs the same type of workers, on the same sorts of shifts. And have to deal with seasonal ups and downs etc. They don't have to deal with an increase in employment costs though,because they're not fucking over their employees and expecting their customers to top up their wages for them.Weird that the entire retail industry isn't going tits up, especially considering the kind of competition they're facing from online shopping that restaurants don't have to deal with.
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This is wrong. Those seasonal employees are temps and make less then the full time ones. The business also has a huge increase in business which justifies the increased hiriing at a lower rate. In fact the business make MORE money during this period because their cost per case is actually lower.
 
spronk

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asia once again paves the way, the answer is robots my friends
Robot Restaurant: Robots cook food and wait tables in Harbin | Mail Online

article-2261767-16E3C606000005DC-39_634x443.jpg


now america has a chance to innovate and make sex robots who will deliver your food and suck your dick, will we innovate in the field or let the chinese overtake the food sciences? C'mon republicans, adopt a platform of Robot Sex Waiters Government Research Initiative, we made it to the moon now its time to make it to second base
 
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