"I'll just be on my way, I'll take my sweet time and burn all the bridges that I am leaving behind"
Shroud Of The Avatar - Shit Went Persistent
- Thread starter Sir Funk
- Start date
@Tracy Hickman Video
So they got Tracy Hickman on the team at some point. I cannot comment on Hickman's capability to write. In general or for a game. I liked his books just fine when I read them - whenever that was. What I don't like is the impression I got from the I-dont-know-what-the-fuck-I-am-talking-about-sludge-fest I just watched.
Why should we take for granted - or even agree - or even listen - to what that guy has to say when it comes to how gameplay has not changed "in the last 30 years"?
I am not even disagreeing with the guy. He might have a point - put in his mouth by other assholes or not - but I don't get why they thought I should listen to him -specifically- about this "gameplay" issue. What I wonder is that maybe I just don't know how involved Hickman might have been with the gaming industry in the past (30, I guess from the video) years. That degree of involvement would change my giving a shit about what he has to say about this game, or games in general.
So they got Tracy Hickman on the team at some point. I cannot comment on Hickman's capability to write. In general or for a game. I liked his books just fine when I read them - whenever that was. What I don't like is the impression I got from the I-dont-know-what-the-fuck-I-am-talking-about-sludge-fest I just watched.
Why should we take for granted - or even agree - or even listen - to what that guy has to say when it comes to how gameplay has not changed "in the last 30 years"?
I am not even disagreeing with the guy. He might have a point - put in his mouth by other assholes or not - but I don't get why they thought I should listen to him -specifically- about this "gameplay" issue. What I wonder is that maybe I just don't know how involved Hickman might have been with the gaming industry in the past (30, I guess from the video) years. That degree of involvement would change my giving a shit about what he has to say about this game, or games in general.
Aaron
Goonsquad Officer
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What people accomplished back in the day is utterly astounding. Small teams of 1-5 people creating EVERTHING for a game. Elite, a 3d space shooter/trader with hundreds of worlds took 22k of memory. The 3D games that ID pioneered and took up a few megs. The simulation behind games such as Transport Tycoon. And of course, the stuff you mention.Roberts is worth WAY more than Garriott. And he only just now got back into gaming. He didn't leave by choice. When EA offers you 20million and then Microsoft offers you 25m to NOT make games, you take that cash and start a movie production company
Anyways, he's back now. And his next IP will blow everyone away. His engine for WC1 was analogous to building a gasoline engine in 1450AD. No one came close, and then this teenager does it like it's taking out the trash. We'd still be playing 2D iso scrollers if it wasn't for Roberts.
edit:
You guys may LOVE your current games, and that's great. I do too. But if you weren't a part of watching these games evolve from '79-'92 you just can't fathom how companies like Origin and Id changed EVERYTHING. They took an industry that said 3D engines with Earth Physics were impossible, and made it happen. That type of innovation and evolution doesn't occur today, because we're far more limited by technology? So were they. If we saw that innovation through the 00's, we'd all be playing virtual reality games that could feed us and give us handjobs from Mila Kunis.
Name one company today that isn't about the bottom line AND makes best sellers? That's the real problem. Chris Roberts was out programming what would eventually become a billion dollar IP using a fucking Commodore at 13. Where is that today?
Now sure, there are modern examples of innovation. Who doesn't love watching 10k melons fall down a hill in Skyrim, or having fun with ragdoll physics? But it does seem that the effort now a days goes mostly into creating shiny new graphics and stuff than actual gameplay improvements. That's why it's refreshing to see people like the guys behind Elite, Roberts and Garriott all try and do something cool. Whether or not they succeed is another thing, but at least they're trying.
Quaid
Trump's Staff
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New very early gameplay demo narrated by the British:
http://www.polygon.com/2013/7/12/451...-of-the-avatar
http://www.polygon.com/2013/7/12/451...-of-the-avatar
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Well to be fair, looks like older Ultimas too, it's just the way it was done back then. Don't know if I want to have to drag and drop every fucking thing though. Like when he cut that board into 4 sticks and then had to drag drop all 4 of them I was like ugh I don't wanna do that. Hopefully there will be some "Pick up all" keys and shit, I don't mind having to organize my bags but having to move every little thing in the game is annoying as shit. The text interface was pretty interesting, mostly what will matter if how much content can they make, how complex the dungeons will be and shit like that. The dungeon they showed looked extremely linear but since it's a super early alpha build demo thing can't really judge on that.
Vaclav
Bronze Baronet of the Realm
- 12,650
- 877
Yea, if that text parser is as good as portrayed (which it very well might be weak like EQ1's just "hidden" via the demo'ing) I could really see that being a hell of fun to just poke around and explore. I was really expecting crap and it's looking decent enough to peak my interest.
BilboFaggins
N00b
- 302
- 22
After watching the six month video they just put out, I went ahead and pledged $45 today to SOTA. If they can do that in just six months, I'm in.
Personally, I'm a huge fan of rich crafting and harvesting systems. If they'd let me just hang out in a mine all night mining ore and gems, use a controller instead of mouse (optionally when I want to in game), and allow for Oculus Rift support, I'd never leave home except to get food and go to the titty bar.
Personally, I'm a huge fan of rich crafting and harvesting systems. If they'd let me just hang out in a mine all night mining ore and gems, use a controller instead of mouse (optionally when I want to in game), and allow for Oculus Rift support, I'd never leave home except to get food and go to the titty bar.
Caliane
Avatar of War Slayer
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- 10,138
looking at the 3 month vid, a few posts back. need to check out this 6month one still.
6month vid
3 month vid mentions "no quest log". honestly. I hate that shit. I do not think its good design. Games are not the real world. the designer has total control over what is a thing and what isn't. It is FAR too easy to put in red herrings, and false quests. and game designers that think, "no quest log" is a good idea, also seem to be the same ones that thing subverting their own design with red herrings is a great idea.
Yes, the dev in THEORY could plan for this, and be sure to give subtle clues and proper feedback to what is or isn't working. if you have a hidden quests, you as a designer need to allow the player to complete that quest in every way possible. The forethought required for this is near impossible, and more often then not, bugs or lack of designer forethought creates a situation where the player does something that should complete or progress the quest, but fail to. leaving the player thinking, they are barking up the wrong tree and moving on.
A classic example is the pendant in Dark souls. Developer outright lies about it doing something pre-release.
anyone can make an unsolvable puzzle. Good puzzles and good riddles need to be well crafted. 10times more work to make a good puzzle then an impossible one.
there is also the issue with remembering wtf you were doing when you take a break from the game for any period of time.
6month vid
3 month vid mentions "no quest log". honestly. I hate that shit. I do not think its good design. Games are not the real world. the designer has total control over what is a thing and what isn't. It is FAR too easy to put in red herrings, and false quests. and game designers that think, "no quest log" is a good idea, also seem to be the same ones that thing subverting their own design with red herrings is a great idea.
Yes, the dev in THEORY could plan for this, and be sure to give subtle clues and proper feedback to what is or isn't working. if you have a hidden quests, you as a designer need to allow the player to complete that quest in every way possible. The forethought required for this is near impossible, and more often then not, bugs or lack of designer forethought creates a situation where the player does something that should complete or progress the quest, but fail to. leaving the player thinking, they are barking up the wrong tree and moving on.
A classic example is the pendant in Dark souls. Developer outright lies about it doing something pre-release.
anyone can make an unsolvable puzzle. Good puzzles and good riddles need to be well crafted. 10times more work to make a good puzzle then an impossible one.
there is also the issue with remembering wtf you were doing when you take a break from the game for any period of time.
Tuco
I got Tuco'd!
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For me I don't mind a laborious or non-streamlined crafting system if I don't have to level up a crafting skill with a bunch of bullshit I don't want to do it. If I get a pommel from some boss dungeon, pay a sack of gold for a rare imported metal and get a gem from Lord British for a quest and craft it into a sword I don't care if it takes a few minutes to do it. I'd rather do that than have to collect 500 bearasses and click the 'make the thing I want' button 500 times just so later I can click the craft button later once I can make the sword.
Szlia
Member
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I am all for no quest log as long as 1) the mystery is not there to hide the lack of content 2) the action-reaction chains are well oiled 3) There is an in-game way to take notes, add marks to maps, etc.
That said, what I see of the game is bit schizophrenic: on one hand there is the will to create a rich immersing world (minimal interface, no quest log, chat through text input, crafting that alters the world) and on the other it is packed with jarring things (world map instead of continuous world, chairs in bags, trees being cut down indicating you can longer get logs off them...). Strange...
That said, what I see of the game is bit schizophrenic: on one hand there is the will to create a rich immersing world (minimal interface, no quest log, chat through text input, crafting that alters the world) and on the other it is packed with jarring things (world map instead of continuous world, chairs in bags, trees being cut down indicating you can longer get logs off them...). Strange...
Ambiturner
Ssraeszha Raider
- 16,040
- 19,501
Exactly this. A lot of these things are just making up for limitations in games. Unfortunately, forums are full of tards who cry that it's hand holding and games were better back in the day when you never knew what you were supposed to do
Jait
Molten Core Raider
- 5,035
- 5,317
Yeah, they're tards and that's total bullshit. There were clue books and quite a few magazines (I mean TONS) which every month included maps, cheats, etc... I remember my 6th grade science teacher asking us for spoilers for Space Quest, and a bunch of kids sitting around tables at lunch in the late 80s going over Ultima maps and spoilers.
It's not different than today, if you don't want to be spoiled you have to shut yourself down and avoid spoilers. You couldn't read a gaming magazine without getting spoilers the same way sites are today.
Then there were BBS's....where you could find anything. Even ASCII porn. But the best was the Telnet star wars movie.
edit: +rep to whoever remembers the name of that woman (she used some fantasy tag) who was really famous at the time who had columns and her own hintbook series for pretty much every major game. Name totally escapes me at the moment.