Star Citizen Online - The search for more money

Jackdaddio_sl said:

212 devs? Is that even possible?

How are they all not tripping over each other's feet?

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There are a lot of disparate pieces to this game, and some strong leadership <Chris Roberts>.

This is the money quote so far, in that they are building it for hopefully a player driven dynamic MMO, and not a static quest world...

The biggest danger, or ?blocker? in game development parlance, continues to be the server backend. You may recall that we pushed the release because we did not want to use the standard CryEngine server and net-code. Instead, we decided it would be more efficient to use the system which will form the nucleus of Star Citizen?s persistent servers in the future. We have high hopes that the solution will be ready in time for launch? and that that solution will stand up to the hundreds of thousands of Citizens waiting to battle it out. The very success that Star Citizen has had in building such a large community so early in its development is also one of its most challenging ? launching the DFM will be akin to launching a major online game. Except we aren?t even close to being finished. It?s a high wire act of the most difficult proportions!

Well, to be fair they have roughly 100 employees, and the rest are 'outsourced' to try and get things accomplished quicker. Given the history here, I don't think they are going Curt Schilling. It looks like a good ratio. A lot seems to be on top notch freelance artists, which is nice.

The update gives some great information. If you read the report, every one of these teams has a project such as one for the FPS, one for the web platform, artists, etc...

Tauro_sl said:

From the CIG report:

CIG Employee Count
CIG Los Angeles 24
CIG Austin 45
Foundry 42 34
Total 103

Outsource Employee Count
BHVR 32
FPS 21
Void Alpha 6
Turbulent 8
CGBot 18
Other 9
Freelance 15
Total 109

Grand Total 212

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Not sure any complaints about how he is raising money are grounded in reality. You "buy" the game and in return are given a ship and access to the alphas.

Chris is a great guy and I wish him nothing but the very best. We have needed a project in this genre since...Wing Commander? STO was not the droid we were looking for (mixed metaphors to make my Trekkie fans hyperventilate)

Also, 212 devs isn't crazy numbers for an AAA quality game. It's not a tiny team by any stretch (it is on the larger side, sure), but for comparison, Riot is has over 1,000 employees and League of Legends is already made (per Wikipedia). On the flip side, Wikipedia says Respawn (Titanfall) has ~75 employees (but then Titanfall is not an MMO). It just depends on how much you want done and how fast. Art is not something that you can really automate (at least not at the quality being delivered here), so they have lots of people!

Very excited for this project and am super impressed with how they are going about raising the money (as transparent as possible, essentially pre-selling the game, delivering as much in pieces as fast as they can - such as the ship garage) and the risks they are taking. This is a MASSIVE endeavor and will hopefully push the MMO landscape forward.

I think the criticism at this point is just the internet at large steeling themselves for a letdown. We've been shit on so many times by companies releasing at best mediocre products that now any bit of information that comes out is hyper-scrutinized and any flaw becomes proof that the entire game is going to suck. Honestly, I can't blame these folks, but fortunately, there are still dreamers out there that will throw money at something sight unseen. However, if the game turns out to be good, it stands to make an Imperial Cockton of money from people like me that are withholding their support until the finished product is released, thoroughly reviewed, and found to be worth paying for. This is what will move the genera forward, and until it happens we are all stuck in this cynical limbo.

Dogfighting module coming up very soon. I'm hugely anti KS, but I ponied up my 45 for this guy, and even with the potential crater I have no issues.

Zantox_sl said:

This is a MASSIVE endeavor and will hopefully push the MMO landscape forward.

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Since when is this an mmo?

I have invested 30 dollars in this game for which I get a newbie ship with lifetime hull-insurance and some other perks. Can't go wrong there imo. I am wondering though about the people who spend thousands of dollars for the more expensive ships: will these ships never become available in the game for in-game coin once the game ships? The lifetime insurances are nice and all, but if they want this game to have subscribers beyond the people that have invested so far, I take it these people will want to buy ships too. Or will ships always be only purchaseable with real money?

Zodiac_sl said:

Since when is this an mmo?

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That's how they describe it and compare themselves to other MMOs. Also, from theWikipedia Article:

Star Citizen will consist of two main components: first person space combat and trading in a massively multiplayer persistent universe and customizable private servers (known as Star Citizen), and a branching single-player and drop-in co-operative multiplayer[6] campaign (known as Squadron 42). The game will feature Oculus Rift support.

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I don't understand how someone could buy in like that and not know that they are just ships that will be part of the normal non exclusive game, it's spelled out on the website I'm pretty sure. Oh well.

They did some ships that WERE exclusive and are sold out (like the $1,000 limited edition ships). Still, people were throwing down massive cash behind the prayer that was Pantheon for likely the same reason: a game in this genre hasn't happened in a really really long time, and it hasn't ever really happened in this big of a way, and those folks are excited and want to help make the game as robust as possible.

Personally, I don't fund many Kickstarters (only friends get my money early), so I share your skepticism.

I believe the corvette class ship Idris? is the one you are referring to and it will be acquireable in game, you just can't buy it for real money any more

Posting this I know I will open myself up for criticism but I'm one of those who spent thousands of dollars on SC. I live alone so the only person I'm screwing over is me. No worries about kids left unfed or homeless.

Why?

I have a job that allows me to spend that kind of money but even for me this is a significant amount. I'm not a rich, let alone wealthy, person.

So why?

I had a vision of organizing a fleet of ships in SC. I knew I wanted a capital ship as its crown jewel. I didn't know how much I wanted this until after a lot more concept was out and we got to see some of the ships in the Hangar Module. I had a Freelancer pack purchased before the Kickstarter was live (at the time Kickstarter wasn't allowing British projects and SC wasn't based out of the US then). I bought into the game early knowing it may tank. By the time the Hanger Module was live and we had a lot more substantial information to work with I felt confident enough to actually think that my fantasy might be realized. I'm a huge Wing Commander fan so to me this project is the one big thing I will invest in. It's not something I would ever repeat no matter what.

I knew full well all the ships could be obtained in game. The LTI was not the selling point for me, it was the cherry on top of the slice of cake if you will. I had a very specific set of ships in mind to fill every role a small fleet would need. I also realized there was no way I could ever spend enough time in game to ever reach it even if I spent years playing plus I don't think I can play any game for years non-stop again. I burned out on too many games like that before so I purposefully take time off and play other games. I find I enjoy gaming a lot more now as a casual than I did when I played WoW or EQ hardcore.

Anyway I have a ridiculous ship list but every single ship on it has a purpose. Each ship has a specific role and the fleet can be re-orged for each mission it may be called on to take. The only two ships that don't really fit into that and I got simply for the "cool" factor was the two alien ships (Banu Merchantman and Xi'an Scout). I won't bore with my ship list but I have two of almost everything and one of each 300 series as well as an Idris-P. I actually have 3 Starfarers as each one has its own role. One is a tanker, one will be a tanker/refinery ship for long range ops and the Star-G version will be our secondary carrier (apparently it can have 1-2 ships attached to it via rails/docking collars).

So what will I be doing? Because I took on this task I expect that a significant amount of my playtime will likely go into planning our own missions to explore deep space and whatever free time I have will go into running NPC/player missions for cash to help fund the fleet. That alone will keep me going for years even if my friends chip in on missions.

Anyway that's the plan. We will also likely to run our own private server to test things and mess around without having to deal with people on the public server.

Thanks for explaining a bit.

You say that you do not expect that you could ever obtain so many ships while playing. I am sure that a new player will not have an entire fleet within 3 months of playing. However if they want to make this game even a tiny bit interesting to a larger audience, then earning your first beginner ship should not be something that takes 3 months. And since there are so many much cooler ships around I would expect that all these are obtainable within a realistic trimeframe also, let us say a few years. Some ships are probably meant to be owned by corporations, so I can see how those would be hard to obtain by a solo-player.

I also agree with Tuco: if this game's gameplay disappoints then that would be quit a loss.

I don't disagree the slightest. I took a leap off a cliff on the promise of pillows. It had nothing to do with being a sound investment. It had everything to do with hopes and dreams. I tried very hard to keep up with their management of expectations but I also realize they might not be able to deliver on everything promised so I stay fairly pessimistic on any grand promises.

My biggest fear is the instancing. CR seemed to suggest that the Crytek engine probably couldn't handle more than a half dozen ships on either side at most or far less. That was one of the motivations for moving it to their own engine but that doesn't mean they can actually get it to work to what he would prefer. There is what CR wants and then there is what they can produce, the two may not come anywhere near no matter how much money they sink into it. Should that happen yeah a fleet of even a half dozen ships may not work at all.

I also agree with your point that no we simply don't know how well any of these systems actually will play out in a game. Will it be fun or dreadfully boring? I suppose a different solution could have been to save up that money and simply buy the ships in game. CR has mentioned that they are likely to allow conversion of real money to in game currency but would limit it to $20 per day/week/month. Not sure exactly. I don't think they elaborated further. That may have been ultimately a more prudent solution and certainly the more safe solution. However I wanted to help fund the production of the game as well. I figured if I spend that kind of money I may as well give it to them when they can use it the most which is during development. That's entirely to their benefit and not to my own. I realize that. I'm not saying I was smart doing that and you can argue it was extremely foolish but there it is.

I also look at it from another perspective. I used the money to fund a very expensive hobby. Some of my friends buy a truck and boat and go fishing. Arguably that's a more worthwhile investment since you have something practical but really it's a hobby. Others spend 3-5 times as much on AV equipment. Again more practical but still a hobby. For me this is my hobby. This is my truck/boat/AV setup.

By the way almost all of them are neck deep in debt and I'm talking well over 200-300k. I may have little money to my name but I'm debt free. I know that's not a real excuse but I'm just comparing myself to others I work with. While they continue that trend and some go under I just quietly play games and not pull a stunt like this again. That's all.