Soygen
The Dirty Dozen For the Price of One
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My point is that even if it was two fucking years, it's still only two years of development time.
Star Citizen Online - The search for more money
- Thread starter Agenor
- Start date
Assuming the game doesn't suck. I love the design of EVE, I just don't really enjoy actually playing the game. That said I've logged hundreds of hours into Wing Commander, Privateer, and Freelancer.
I find it amusing that the Pantheon thread is nonstop, and this one is barely touched except for me fighting to keep it in the MMO portion from overzealous mods<fight the power>.
I think the interest in this game will be far more limited than any fantasy game in this community, and more focused towards the 35+ crowd.
I find it amusing that the Pantheon thread is nonstop, and this one is barely touched except for me fighting to keep it in the MMO portion from overzealous mods<fight the power>.
I think the interest in this game will be far more limited than any fantasy game in this community, and more focused towards the 35+ crowd.
Tuco
I got Tuco'd!
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Pantheon is full of drama and derails, this one is pretty drama free and there's just nothing to talk about with the game.
Which is interesting given Chris Robert's background with Freelancer and the sick amount of money Star Citizen is currently getting from schmucks like me.
Use your mod superfriend powers and start cutting and pasting all Rescorla and Ut's posts from TESO to here.
I'm amused that Cloud Imperium's front page linkes to another KS.. and it's not Pantheon.
Kickstarter: Kingdom Come: Deliverance - Roberts Space Industries
Use your mod superfriend powers and start cutting and pasting all Rescorla and Ut's posts from TESO to here.
I'm amused that Cloud Imperium's front page linkes to another KS.. and it's not Pantheon.
Kickstarter: Kingdom Come: Deliverance - Roberts Space Industries
Soygen
The Dirty Dozen For the Price of One
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Wasn't that the Avatar game, though? Or are you also fighting to keep this non-MMO in the wrong game section as well? Who was going to move this?
Delly
Trakanon Raider
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It says why, for the mutual benefit of both games. I'm excited because Kingdom Come looks like an awesome game.
I don't think the problem is EQN or SCO here in the MMO forums..Let me contemplate what the real issue could possibly be...
The only time a (proper) thread was moved was HEX from this forum to the Other Games forum where it properly belongs.
Mr Creed
Too old for this shit
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I'm pretty sure I said in both this and the Garriott thread that I wouldnt count them as MMOs and move them - but I'm not crusading for that because the line is pretty blurred in both cases, especially since neither have anything to back up their MMO or Not-MMO status, being pre-alpha and all.
That said and to anwer Carl, I've got some money on SC and look forward to it, but I'm not sure it scratches the itch of most EQ fans. SC is going to feature heavy instancing or more accurately nothing that is actually non-instanced (afaik). Planets/docks are going to be shared hubs similar to towns in GW1 (with multiple copies depending on load), the rest of the world including missions, moons and asteroids fields is created in instances on demand. What those people should look for is EVE Online - but anyone that likes space games at all probably has checked that out already, being free to trial (and probably dropped it like a hot rock, I know I did. Took me a second go go get into the game but spent more money on EVE subs then EQ overall).
That said and to anwer Carl, I've got some money on SC and look forward to it, but I'm not sure it scratches the itch of most EQ fans. SC is going to feature heavy instancing or more accurately nothing that is actually non-instanced (afaik). Planets/docks are going to be shared hubs similar to towns in GW1 (with multiple copies depending on load), the rest of the world including missions, moons and asteroids fields is created in instances on demand. What those people should look for is EVE Online - but anyone that likes space games at all probably has checked that out already, being free to trial (and probably dropped it like a hot rock, I know I did. Took me a second go go get into the game but spent more money on EVE subs then EQ overall).
Soygen
The Dirty Dozen For the Price of One
- 28,575
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A single thread was moved one time and then I moved it back when your pussy got hurt. The moderation here is clearly out of control!
Jimbolini
Semi-pro Monopoly player
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This. The reason EVE continues to keep the lights on for CCP is the drama aspect of it. EVE is a boring game with horribly outdated mechanics, but there is an undeniable draw to it because things you do in the game MATTER. If a dev company simply develops the balls to make a game that actually punishes its players, or better yet allow players to punish each other BUT is actually fun to play, it will be a license to print money.
Dr Neir
Trakanon Raider
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- 1,505
Doesnt help that EVE is sitting on a money printing machine with their PLEX! They have too much unfiltered control over it and then added plex to be moveable from stations (almost always destroyed on a POP) and used for 2nd skill training (guessing that is still going on).
Best idea they had from the start was having offline skill training progression. No other game has that to date that I know of. That in itself is enough to keep ppl subbing because of the idea "you're progressing" in some form, then add in in-game money (ISK) for PLEX. When you have some major heavy corps dumping 9k equal to US $ per MONTH if not more in PLEX, I'm sure they arent doing to bad over all!
This isnt counting the extra account subs due to the progression setup they have. Seen many ppl have avg of 3 account each up to 9+. Major complain about it is the lack of enough PVE. Once the big hitters stop buying truckloads of plex to fund their fun, you will see it change to a more PVE friendly style game to keep ppl subbed.
Mr Creed
Too old for this shit
- 2,395
- 289
When all is said and done a PLEX is only good for a month of sub/training, just like any other sub. They do have alot of boxers but that's all. I dont see that as a goldmine. If you could consume PLEX for other things besides activating a character for a month then yea, they'd make bank (but also cause a huge outrage, and they're wary of that since the monocle).
I think outdated mechanics is thrown around way too much. I dont know which mechanics you actually refer to but it implies they were once great but no longer are. I think most of the time when people say outdated mechanics they mean "I liked that but dont anymore" or simply "bad mechanics"... mostly the latter. That said, overall I find EVE to be on the better side of things mechanics-wise because at least they err on the side of depth most of the time.
Dr Neir
Trakanon Raider
- 832
- 1,505
Think you would be surprised what has been done and continue to be done with plex within CCP. They havent shown any facts they dont pull and add plex to their own game or ISK. They generally hide "off market" plex to keep a balance of ISK to PLEX. When the ratio of ISK to plex hits too high or low they list or remove plex on the markets. There is also the idea they use PLEX off banned accounts.
This isnt new as RL markets generally do the same on controlling pricing for items like milk, eggs, rubber..etc. But the potential abuse risk is there and like many other things in the world. Some if not all is being used to their "House" advantage.
I dont claim to be a wiz on economics but last I checked, the outer 0sec, wspace and other areas paid good from NPC bounties and other rewards but not good enough to compensate the money sinks from NPC interactions like purchasing item (BPO, taxes and insurance claims) to explain the sheer about of ISK on the markets. Not saying I am right or wrong, my observation.
Unfortunate capsuleer learns not to move EVE Online PLEX in starter ships | Massively
EVE Online player loses tiny ship worth over $6,000 [UPDATED] | Massively
EVE player destroys over $1000 worth of game time | Massively
CCP turns PLEX for Good program toward typhoon relief | Massively
EVE Search - FanFest 2013: CCP PLEX market intervention
Back to the subject about how the game has made it and continue to do so. While drama can be a thing with the game, there is a ton of offline players. If it continues for years to come, I would bet its more about how the game style is vs the drama. I have been in some interesting corps in my time, but the major drama I have see has been in local trash talk and forum posts about X war and Z corp mistakes.
The major draw for players is how the game plays, they then get overwhelmed with the deep expansive knowledge needed to absorb the many things it offers just to turn around and offline grind if they dont find a good fun corp and then even after awhile they digress to the offline mode of grinding once bored. I have seen this off and on over the years with more players and friends including myself. Ppl in general have the overwhelming need to want something for the least amount of effort. Offline progression caters to that.
4 biggest things they did right:
-Space sim: easier to graphic update small polymodels vs huge landscapes and player models.
-Deep and complex play: Ship loadouts, targeting, crafting, research, etc. This also includes Markets, missions and general sandboxish nature
-Offline progression: progression without having to login and UNABLE to grind out skills to speed up progression.
-PVP: having open world with some limits but can be still done with penalties.
They biggest failures:
-PVP: all development is PVP first with not enough mini-game events and things for none PVP players to do. All major rewards/bonuses are focused on having PC control areas with the threat being other players not NPCs. Even in Wspace the biggest threat are other players, not the NPCs.
-Not enough PVE content: needs more mini-games and expansion/unlocks, more limits in the markets. Unlocks meaning, able to moon mine anywhere as example.
Additional note:
Another added factor to their success, there really isnt anything else out there since Earth and Beyond. Sadly I missed out on playing that one before it died.
Yes I have pvp in good and bad, while its good in some aspects, its bad in others.
This isnt new as RL markets generally do the same on controlling pricing for items like milk, eggs, rubber..etc. But the potential abuse risk is there and like many other things in the world. Some if not all is being used to their "House" advantage.
I dont claim to be a wiz on economics but last I checked, the outer 0sec, wspace and other areas paid good from NPC bounties and other rewards but not good enough to compensate the money sinks from NPC interactions like purchasing item (BPO, taxes and insurance claims) to explain the sheer about of ISK on the markets. Not saying I am right or wrong, my observation.
Unfortunate capsuleer learns not to move EVE Online PLEX in starter ships | Massively
EVE Online player loses tiny ship worth over $6,000 [UPDATED] | Massively
EVE player destroys over $1000 worth of game time | Massively
CCP turns PLEX for Good program toward typhoon relief | Massively
EVE Search - FanFest 2013: CCP PLEX market intervention
Plex is a subject on its own with major theory masters trying to figure out the behind the scenes which will never be seen unless there is some whistle-blower from CCP or an investigation from its natural country exposing them.Ireland VonVicious
Vendetta Syndicate
Posted - 2013.06.03 22:16:00 - [16] - Quote
The funny thing is it doesn't really matter if they pull the PLEX off banned accounts our not on our end.
They are doing it but not for the reason you think they are. Not for the reasons they say they are.
CCP is the central bank of Eve. Central banks are evil by nature. Can't be avoided.
If they are public they go corrupt and if they are private they do things to lace their own pockets.Also Corrupt
Here is a simple video of how central banking works:
The Collapse of The American Dream Explained in Animation - YouTube
CCP says they are releasing PLEX to keep prices down.
Not true and not good for the Eve economy.
If you are the guy who buys PLEX to use in game you should be pissed.
They are artificially keeping prices low. If they put all assets of banned accounts on the market it would be another story.
They may say it's good for the players but do you really believe that?
What it really does:
First it makes you need to buy more PLEX with real cash to accomplish the same in game goal.
Now PLEX may have been made from nothing but has a real life IOU value.
30 days of game time is priced by CCP so if IOU's are outstanding it has to be shown on real life accountant sheets.
Just like a gift card at best buy or any other store. The money on the books is good but the debt left of the books is not.
That is why gift cards now have expiration dates.
So every time CCP puts a PLEX
This means every time CCP sells a player a banned account PLEX they not only look but become healthier to their share holders.
Next time they say: It's to help the players feel free to come back to this post.
Back to the subject about how the game has made it and continue to do so. While drama can be a thing with the game, there is a ton of offline players. If it continues for years to come, I would bet its more about how the game style is vs the drama. I have been in some interesting corps in my time, but the major drama I have see has been in local trash talk and forum posts about X war and Z corp mistakes.
The major draw for players is how the game plays, they then get overwhelmed with the deep expansive knowledge needed to absorb the many things it offers just to turn around and offline grind if they dont find a good fun corp and then even after awhile they digress to the offline mode of grinding once bored. I have seen this off and on over the years with more players and friends including myself. Ppl in general have the overwhelming need to want something for the least amount of effort. Offline progression caters to that.
4 biggest things they did right:
-Space sim: easier to graphic update small polymodels vs huge landscapes and player models.
-Deep and complex play: Ship loadouts, targeting, crafting, research, etc. This also includes Markets, missions and general sandboxish nature
-Offline progression: progression without having to login and UNABLE to grind out skills to speed up progression.
-PVP: having open world with some limits but can be still done with penalties.
They biggest failures:
-PVP: all development is PVP first with not enough mini-game events and things for none PVP players to do. All major rewards/bonuses are focused on having PC control areas with the threat being other players not NPCs. Even in Wspace the biggest threat are other players, not the NPCs.
-Not enough PVE content: needs more mini-games and expansion/unlocks, more limits in the markets. Unlocks meaning, able to moon mine anywhere as example.
Additional note:
Another added factor to their success, there really isnt anything else out there since Earth and Beyond. Sadly I missed out on playing that one before it died.
Yes I have pvp in good and bad, while its good in some aspects, its bad in others.
The plot thickens. As Pantheon craters, Kingdoms come....
Star Citizen and Kingdom Come devs share tech secrets in Eurogamer.net
"The characters and outfits I saw working in-engine in the trailer impressed me so much that I contacted the team to talk about what was going on under the hood," he wrote on theRoberts Space Industries website.Roberts said he wanted to know how Warhorse was building its character creation system to help with his own for Star Citizen. Luckily, Warhorse was happy to let him in on trade secrets.
"Star Citizen doesn't need peasants and knights... but it does need a robust character creation system for the persistent universe," Roberts said. "And that technology is exactly what Warhorse is building for the CryEngine."
Now, the plan is for both developers to share the CryEngine tricks each has learnt over the course of the games' creation. Roberts called it an "unofficial partnership".
"I've always said that independent developers should stick together, and the potential good for both games that can come from this unofficial partnership is proof positive!"
In an update on theKingdom Come Kickstarter page, creative director Dan Vavra - a fan of Roberts' Wing Commander games - echoed the sentiment.
"So it was logical that one year later, when we were preparing our own Kickstarter campaign, Star Citizen was our role model," he said.
"You learn from the best. So you can imagine how happy we were when Chris Roberts appeared on the list of our backers, and you can't even imagine how it felt when we received an email from Chris himself. He was telling us that he likes our stuff and since his team is using CryEngine as well, they would like to cooperate with us and share some technology! Who would have thought about this 23 years ago when playing Wing Commander?"
Warhorse will share some of its tools with Cloud Imperium Games and Kingdom Come will "most likely" feature tech from Star Citizen.
Star Citizen and Kingdom Come devs share tech secrets in Eurogamer.net
"The characters and outfits I saw working in-engine in the trailer impressed me so much that I contacted the team to talk about what was going on under the hood," he wrote on theRoberts Space Industries website.Roberts said he wanted to know how Warhorse was building its character creation system to help with his own for Star Citizen. Luckily, Warhorse was happy to let him in on trade secrets.
"Star Citizen doesn't need peasants and knights... but it does need a robust character creation system for the persistent universe," Roberts said. "And that technology is exactly what Warhorse is building for the CryEngine."
Now, the plan is for both developers to share the CryEngine tricks each has learnt over the course of the games' creation. Roberts called it an "unofficial partnership".
"I've always said that independent developers should stick together, and the potential good for both games that can come from this unofficial partnership is proof positive!"
In an update on theKingdom Come Kickstarter page, creative director Dan Vavra - a fan of Roberts' Wing Commander games - echoed the sentiment.
"So it was logical that one year later, when we were preparing our own Kickstarter campaign, Star Citizen was our role model," he said.
"You learn from the best. So you can imagine how happy we were when Chris Roberts appeared on the list of our backers, and you can't even imagine how it felt when we received an email from Chris himself. He was telling us that he likes our stuff and since his team is using CryEngine as well, they would like to cooperate with us and share some technology! Who would have thought about this 23 years ago when playing Wing Commander?"
Warhorse will share some of its tools with Cloud Imperium Games and Kingdom Come will "most likely" feature tech from Star Citizen.