Star Citizen Online - The search for more money

Mr Creed_sl said:

Iirc Xwing used atmospheric flight models, no turning the ship around while continuing in the same direction etc? I'm sure alot of people that arent as informed as their forum population are going to be surprised by physics-based space flight, for good or bad.

How has the money per backer ratio developed throughout 2014? I remember way back when I last read about it they were at ~$100 per back on average, which doesnt sound too out of line.

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Yeah if you are expecting X-Wing/Tie-Fighter gameplay you may as well bow out now.

The racing game will be the test-bed for atmospheric flight. Currently it uses the same physics model as space so it's really inaccurate. People will have to re-learn how to fly in an atmosphere. Indeed this is one reason ships look like they could enter an atmosphere. Some more gracefully than others.

Consequently the R&D going on atm to allow for space to atmosphere flight should pay off in spades in this regard or sink the whole game. Whichever comes first. I don't envy the physics designers on the game and apparently they have a couple of real physics engineers of some sort and a professor so I hope they can get it right.

As for how much I think it's still at roughly $100 per person but it might climb higher by the end of the year. The community occasionally pulls data for it but all you really need is the UEE FLEET # and the total pledge to figure it out. I'm getting just shy of $120 unless I fail at math.

Variise_sl said:

I can't take anyone seriously that calls SC vaporware at this point. That may have been a valid claim two years, even one year ago but now? Are you serious or just trolling to try and create drama?

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They have every right to rattle on about vapourware. Think about who is making this game and the reasons why he had to go through Kickstarter to get back into the gaming industry (and what he wound up delivering to the film industry for all the sacrifices made).

On top of that we get the good old, Old School Auteur angle when their track record in the last decade in a half makes it a good case for their critics to want them to all retire and let new blood on and you can see why people are back talking this game and calling it call bullshit. Until clear, solid results are put forward they have every reason to be wary and a few damn good ones to call this is as yet another disaster in the making.

TBH I didn't start out sceptical, though I wasn't committed to supporting this project in the least because it seemed like it was doing the sensible thing and starting off small building a foundation for a franchise, now it's become an a seemingly all encompassing space simulator and seems to be gathering the same ill aura that haunted Schilling ever since he decided to actually go out and seriously make his MMO a reality: they people behind this lack patience to rebuild their position in the gaming community and are throwing around ever increasingly larger promises to get money make history's greatest MMO (or pseudo-MMO, I got lost in all this line blurring years ago and see no pressing reason to orient myself).

Now you've bought the hype, don't act as if you haven't. Doesn't mean you're not reasonable about this game, but the thing about hype is once you've allowed in in the door and can become increasingly infectious. With that said I can see why you don't like the negativity, but try to go back a few steps and look it before you got so invested and start thinking if it's reasonable to be so dismissive of people's scepticism over something like this riding more on trust and the developers word than anything concrete.

Yeah if you are expecting X-Wing/Tie-Fighter gameplay you may as well bow out now.

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The worrying thing is that this undertaking isn't starting out from there.

Now CCP really fucked themselves up in the last few years, but they started out very sensible by focusing on limited goals and slowly building up EVE and it succeeded. Were in in the position of SCs leaders I'd look to that or other evolutionary projects like Mount and Blade and get a dose of patience letting this build up a foundation over years instead of demanding everything from people now and telling them that I'll get back to them with their dream game in a few years, especially in a genre like space sims that is very niche no matter much everyone would love to play them.

They should have started off with a spiritual successor to WC that was tight and focused, worked on sequels with clear improves and a clear direction of where they were ultimately going, then after having proof that they could deliver, then announce something this big.

I thought the update to the Arena Commander was a good one. If they keep improving it like this I can see this becoming fun. I kinda suck at space combat though. Getting onto someone tail is just so hard. I also got the feeling that the "match target speed" button is not working. This was always a huge help in some other space game I played (maybe Wing Commander itself?).
I dabbled a bit with the race-game and I must say that "practice" is the magic word here.

I think a lot of people would want space combat to be a bit easier; this is fine against PvE, but how do you balance that with PvP? I think PvP is a huge challenge in this game anyway. So many factors that could become perceived as *unfair*. Pilot skill, use of peripherals and last but not least, the different type of ships. It seems like a no-brainer that an Aurora should be canon fodder to a Retaliator. They are just not in the same league. Like a level 100 WoW vet against a level 1 newbie. Other games solve this by matching systems, battle arenas and such. Or in Open World PvPgames, with stuff like Reputation and Faction hits, becoming KoS to the guards and such. It seems almost impossible.

Mr Creed_sl said:

Iirc Xwing used atmospheric flight models, no turning the ship around while continuing in the same direction etc? I'm sure alot of people that arent as informed as their forum population are going to be surprised by physics-based space flight, for good or bad.

How has the money per backer ratio developed throughout 2014? I remember way back when I last read about it they were at ~$100 per back on average, which doesnt sound too out of line.

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I actually quite like the flight model, feels a lot like the old Origin game "Space Rogue", its the controls themselves that annoy me. They feel sloppy and not precise, not tight enough to do the job in a dog fight. Unfortunatly this is a feeling, not something I can specify down to "to large deadzone" or "jerky stick movements", its the overall experience of them while flying.

Treesong_sl said:

I thought the update to the Arena Commander was a good one. If they keep improving it like this I can see this becoming fun. I kinda suck at space combat though. Getting onto someone tail is just so hard. I also got the feeling that the "match target speed" button is not working. This was always a huge help in some other space game I played (maybe Wing Commander itself?).
I dabbled a bit with the race-game and I must say that "practice" is the magic word here.

I think a lot of people would want space combat to be a bit easier; this is fine against PvE, but how do you balance that with PvP? I think PvP is a huge challenge in this game anyway. So many factors that could become perceived as *unfair*. Pilot skill, use of peripherals and last but not least, the different type of ships. It seems like a no-brainer that an Aurora should be canon fodder to a Retaliator. They are just not in the same league. Like a level 100 WoW vet against a level 1 newbie. Other games solve this by matching systems, battle arenas and such. Or in Open World PvPgames, with stuff like Reputation and Faction hits, becoming KoS to the guards and such. It seems almost impossible.

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It's already possible for a good player in a stock Aurora to beat a less skilled player in a Hornet. This is a good thing. We want this type of gameplay. I think it would be horrible if just getting gear meant instawin as that would definitely propagate the "pay to win" model. But yeah if all other things are equal a better ship with better gear would give you the edge to beat you opponent. I don't see any problem with that. What can be problematic is trying to balance the various ships. They don't want to accidentally create an iwinbutton ship. They already mentioned an in-fiction way of resolving problems like that. The idea is the manufacturer of the equipment does a Recall Notice and at that point players have to hand in their old equipment and they get a new nerfed one instead. You will be allowed to keep the original one with the knowledge that it will have highly unpredictable results such as suddenly overloading and exploding or causing other problems for you randomly. In fact this was a player suggested solution CR really liked and would like to implement.

Also you mentioned becoming KOS. As I described in detail in another post if someone decides to take their super fancy ship and go into a "noob" area and start butcher people they will be allowed to do it. They can become KOS to both the UEE and Advocacy if they can't get away with it (it will be very difficult to pull off and impossible or near impossible in the core worlds) and a bounty will be posted for their head, for players to go after, until they can clear the bounty in some way. The bounty system is yet to be revealed but it has been hinted previously that it will be handled completely in-fiction realistically. The person the bounty is on will be tracked by the game and hints of their current location will spread as rumor in bars and elsewhere for bounty hunters to pick up on.

They don't want you to know exactly where they are but at the same time they want to keep sending you in the right direction otherwise you would never find the person plus for the criminal it will feel like people are always nipping at their heels. For them to stay in UEE space will be highly dangerous and made much easier for the bounty hunters. This won't ever prevent griefing from a sociopath/Goons but it will help vs everyone else that just wants to play PvP. It shouldn't feel like play options are taken from them, it's more a consequence than anything. But yeah as a noob you won't ever be safe. I fully expect griefing constantly in noob zones until said person is pounded into dust again and again and again. When bored I will likely be found there patrolling for them and I doubt I will be alone.

Faith_sl said:

I actually quite like the flight model, feels a lot like the old Origin game "Space Rogue", its the controls themselves that annoy me. They feel sloppy and not precise, not tight enough to do the job in a dog fight. Unfortunatly this is a feeling, not something I can specify down to "to large deadzone" or "jerky stick movements", its the overall experience of them while flying.

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I think I may know why. This is the #1 issue with SC IMO. One of the reasons for this feeling are gimballed thrusters. It takes a fraction of a second for it to adjust to the new heading so it feels.... off. Honestly they just need to make it faster and say in-fiction that some technology allows the thrusters to perform significantly faster than previous generations.... blah blah blah. It may be realistic to today but 900 years into the future I don't think it's too much of a leap to assume someone figured out how to handle this problem better. Maybe I'm wrong but I think that's what it is.

Centripital and centrifugal force redirection modules. NP EZ I should live 900 years from now.

Variise_sl said:

I think I may know why. This is the #1 issue with SC IMO. One of the reasons for this feeling are gimballed thrusters. It takes a fraction of a second for it to adjust to the new heading so it feels.... off. Honestly they just need to make it faster and say in-fiction that some technology allows the thrusters to perform significantly faster than previous generations.... blah blah blah. It may be realistic to today but 900 years into the future I don't think it's too much of a leap to assume someone figured out how to handle this problem better. Maybe I'm wrong but I think that's what it is.

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Might be it, whatever the cause its annoying

And I dont think "being realistic today" should even play a role. Flying at those speeds and trying to hit anything while zipping by without a fully computer controlled weaponsystem is about as "high fantasy" as Saurons ring ^^

Faith_sl said:

Might be it, whatever the cause its annoying

And I dont think "being realistic today" should even play a role. Flying at those speeds and trying to hit anything while zipping by without a fully computer controlled weaponsystem is about as "high fantasy" as Saurons ring ^^

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Yeah my thoughts exactly. Fun > Realism unless Fun = Realism. If something is nothing but frustrating no matter what it needs to get binned and IMO the delay is that thing. There is no single good reason I can come up with to keep it.

It wouldn't be the first system they changed drastically when it comes to flying from CR's original intention based on player feedback. Remember the god awful lock on rings that filled your entire screen so you couldn't tell wtf was going on when you were scanning or locking on to someone? Thank fuck that's binned. Might be cool for a fraction of a second in the Iron Man movie or whatever but actually using it was rage inducing. The longer the UI is in testing the more features it's picking up from actual modern jet fighters and their targeting computers which to me is amazing. Now they just need to get the Flight Model there. Thankfully they know it's not done yet that's good. I just hope they get it right soon.

I have a couple extra keys from my radeon rewards for Star Citizen, looking to trade for some xbox one shit. They are selling for $30-35 on eBay so I'll trade it to anyone here for a $20 xbox live code (can buy em on amazon/newegg/etc), or anything else xbox one you may have (games season passes etc). I also have a Sniper Elite 3 steam key and Murdered Soul Suspect, would bundle it up if you have a steam Wasteland 2 or Divinity: Original Sin gift/key. PM me to work something out, can give you 2 Star Citizen keys too for something.

you get the mustang variant racer and full access to whatever is up right now, the arena dogfighting stuff and the ship hanger and I assume when the game eventually launches you get access to the campaign and stuff (but honestly i have no fucking clue, I did download and play for 5 minutes with a key so they work).

Arena Commander 1.0 launched officially on Friday. They wanted to hold it back another week due to the bugs but they wanted to send most of the staff away for two weeks for the holidays and wanted people to test it. It's playable apart from the disconnect issue that's still being worked on by the server team.

All variants of the Aurora and Hornet are now playable. They also added an early internal test version of the Avenger and Cutlass, so they are more buggy and less feature ready, to play with but they will be revamped in patches next year.

The missile system was completely revamped with lots more missiles and some new guns with the additional of the Signal and Noise system. You can now turn off systems and in some cases equip stealth armor to help avoid missiles or avoid detection entirely. You can hide behind asteroids etc. You have to actually patrol around to find people. They even added a new HUD for the Aurora as an early test of what in-game displays will look like without a helmet mounted display.

Details can be found here:https://robertsspaceindustries.com/c...er-10-Released

If you do try it a minor warning. The missile system that was added requires that you re-learn how to play the game. You have to properly use countermeasures or you end up dead meat. There are missiles with sub-munitions that will attack you in multiple stages. You will have to learn how to avoid them but it can be done. Skill is definitely a lot more important now. It's also easier to lose missile lock if the target isn't oblivious and some missiles are less reliable than others.

Good luck out there.

P.S. Use the mouse wheel for a nice Easter egg while in EVA.

P.S.S. New animations have been added along with a new armor and you can toy with them in the hangar and in EVA but it's nowhere near final just something from months old internal build that's marginally better then what we had. Oh and the site had a partial revamp so brace yourself.

EDIT:

Forgot to mention. All variants of the Mustang are also playable. There is currently only one CCU available from the Aurora MR to the Mustang Alpha but more CCUs will be available come Monday so be patient.

EDIT 2:

Forgot one neat feature of the new missile system. You can now lock on to a target with multiple missiles so get ready for the Macross Missile Massacre. The only thing missing is the ability to lock on multiple targets and that's coming down the line.

nm

Latest hype.

Really looking forward to making my name as the worst pilot in the universe in this game.