Rengak
Blackwing Lair Raider
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Star Wars : Rogue One
- Thread starter Miguex
- Start date
Feanor
Karazhan Raider
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- 35,304
Vader's alternate version from the blaxploitation film Star Moors
Your first was slightly condescending, your second more overt. Twilight is known for being a sourpuss at times but it's alright. Both of you have a good sense of humor and I chuckled when I read both of your posts tbh.
I had two options. Either do like Royal and take the high road or troll the troll. I chose the latter.
Figured RLM were not going to dig it. I've watched enough (not many but enough) of their videos to know their taste. Definitely agree with moving on to newer stories, leaving nostalgia behind, I've said as much before.
- 1
Gavinmad
Mr. Poopybutthole
- 42,388
- 50,467
I don't kill myself because I know it would devastate my family. You don't kill yourself because you're a fucking coward.
I'm thinking I've got a long ways to go before I'm as hopeless as you.
- 1
Phazael
Confirmed Beta Shitlord, Fat Bastard
- 14,114
- 30,210
Drakain
Trakanon Raider
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- 688
She was a member of the Imperial Senate, she worked in the lion's den. Plus how would Bail know Vader would show up? And does Bail even know what Vader's identity is? He only knew Leia was the daughter of Anakin.
- 2
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I saw this last night - against my initial assessment - based on the reviews in this thread, and the fact that I'm an admitted sucker for Star Wars, warts and all. I've probably seen ESB over 100 times, especially when I was a kid, I'd watch a tape of it recorded from TV on VHS almost every Saturday.
WARNING: SPOILERS AHEAD
The Good
--The atmosphere of the movie, for lack of a better term. They absolutely nailed this, even better than TFA, which was very good at setting and imagery. Everything LOOKS right, even the things you haven't seen before, with only a few exceptions. The temple on Jedha, the way aliens interact with things, the base on Scarif, the wierd blue eyed alien head dude in Forest Whitaker's crew... all fantastic.
--The pacing. This is a tricky thing to get right, you want to keep things moving, so people don't have time to go "Hey wait, that thing back there didn't make sense!" (At least until the next day when they blast it onto the interwebs ) But also not so fast that people can't keep up with what's going on. Also, you don't notice that this movie was fairly long. Well done.
--The action and battles were awesome. Yes you can pick nits here and there like why does Almost Force Monk beat up dudes in armor so easily, but that's an easy answer: Rule of Cool. Stormtroopers are the ultimate cinematic faceless mook army, the only thing they're for is to beat up in new and exciting ways. Special mention to the Xwings bombing Galen's base, the AT-AT's coming out of the fog on Scarif (this gave me chills, you really feel the terror from this since they're filmed at ground level from the perspective of Old Hawaiian Gunner), the finale X-wing fight, and Vader wrecking that hallway.
--The acting is good, but not great. As someone mentioned, this isn't as preachy as TFA, and they don't hit you over the head with any SJW nonsense. I'm more and more convinced that the studio people were trolling by tweeting out all of that casting crap, even if it was true. I think they were hoping for a reverse backlash, similar to what happened with Fury Road. This works when the final product is good, like this movie and Fury Road, and backfires when the movie is shit, like Ghostbusters: Shoot All Men in the Dick Edition.
--The characters are mostly great. Jyn, Cassian, Donnie Yen, Old Hawaiian Gunner, Forest Whitaker, even Director Krennic I thought were all good as far as characterization, motivations, and actions. I never had a problem with Krennic as the villain, he works in the context of this story, and I found him to be reasonably threatening to our heroes.
--Visual touches here and there. The look of the death star from the ground while it's above you. The look of the blast zone after it hits a planet. The AT-ATs towering above you. The AT-ST's walking through Jedha city. The look of the desert-style stormtroopers. The data center where the files were kept. The look of the tower on Scarif. The asteroid base(?) where Cassian finds out about the pilot traitor. Many other things I'm probably forgetting. All of it awesome and very Star Wars.
The Bad
--The music. It's not bad per se, but the lack of John Williams, and not using leitmotifs for various characters is glaring in its absence. For instance, when Donnie Yen walks through blaster fire untouched, would have been a perfect moment to use the force leitmotif, but we get nothing like that (IIRC).
--Why did Cassian have a spanish/mexican accent? He's a spy/assassin right? Wouldn't that mean he'd have to have, or at least adopt periodically, a british accent to fit in with all of the Imperials he's traveling around? When he was giving a few of those speeches I almost felt I was watching Narcos or Che Guevara or something. Kind of distracting.
--Why is the imperial cargo pilot traitor guy a Space Pakistani? We've been hit over the head that the empire is all about white supremacy or whatever, wouldn't this guy of all people be white? Also his accent was distracting in most of his scenes I thought.
--Some of the casting choices are slightly distracting, but this is kind of a nitpick. Ser Barristan is a rebel. Sherlock's idiot police pathologist is a rebel pussy. Claire Underwood's photographer fling is a rebel pilot (although I liked his role and his acting in general). This is the "Hey it's that guy!" phenomenon, and ESB had Cliff Claven, and a Retroactive Grand Maester Pycelle
--I didn't mind Tarkin's CGI face, but he had too much screen time, and they should have had him be more in the background threatening things instead of how front and center he was. Leia's face didn't look nearly as good though, and they should have kept her back to the camera.
--Vader issues: First of all, the temple looked very Mordor-ish. Don't rip off visuals from other famous franchises like that, jesus christ people. Second, why would he have that place on some lava planet? Just guessing, but I'd bet Vader isn't the type to want to be around a lot of fire after what happened to him. Moreover, all of the prequels, including this one, highlight the weird aspect in ANH of Vader listening to and obeying orders from Tarkin. Vader is the number 2 guy in the entire empire, why would he ever do anything that anyone who isn't the emperor commands him to do? Although to be fair, ESB highlights this as well. One last thing: James Earl Jones is getting to be really fucking old. You can hear it in his lines. This is the problem with continuing to try to have Vader in things: Vader doesn't work without Jones' voice. Just move on from Vader, people.
--My main problem with the movie: When they get the shield down and are able to transmit the plans into space, there's tons of rebel ships up there, but only that one ship gets them? Wouldn't all of them have received them? Some of those ships got away as well, wouldn't they have gotten away with the plans? Also, why the fuck would Leia be aboard that ship if this was an impromptu and desperate attack? Wouldn't she be somewhere nearby in a ship with plausible diplomatic cover, like it's implied in ANH? All they would have had to do is have some sort of ship escape, and meet up with Leia's ship to deliver the plans. Vader tracks that escaping ship, sees Leia's ship, puts 2 and 2 together, and boom, there's the opening to ANH. The direction they went with here is much less plausible and falls apart logically IMO.
TL ; DR:
This movie is basically unnecessary. There are a few flaws, and the company that makes it is likely a SJW run monstrosity bent on warping your mind in subtle and overt ways. I wish they'd do stories in the same time period as TFA, not around the OT.
I wanted it to be bad. The trouble is it just isn't. It's short of great, but it's very good. Better than TFA on initial viewing, and I suspect it will be the opposite of that movie, in that TFA falls apart more and more as time goes on, and I suspect this will be viewed as better as time goes on and you watch it multiple times. If you like Star Wars, you'll like Rogue One.
7.8/10
WARNING: SPOILERS AHEAD
The Good
--The atmosphere of the movie, for lack of a better term. They absolutely nailed this, even better than TFA, which was very good at setting and imagery. Everything LOOKS right, even the things you haven't seen before, with only a few exceptions. The temple on Jedha, the way aliens interact with things, the base on Scarif, the wierd blue eyed alien head dude in Forest Whitaker's crew... all fantastic.
--The pacing. This is a tricky thing to get right, you want to keep things moving, so people don't have time to go "Hey wait, that thing back there didn't make sense!" (At least until the next day when they blast it onto the interwebs
) But also not so fast that people can't keep up with what's going on. Also, you don't notice that this movie was fairly long. Well done.--The action and battles were awesome. Yes you can pick nits here and there like why does Almost Force Monk beat up dudes in armor so easily, but that's an easy answer: Rule of Cool. Stormtroopers are the ultimate cinematic faceless mook army, the only thing they're for is to beat up in new and exciting ways. Special mention to the Xwings bombing Galen's base, the AT-AT's coming out of the fog on Scarif (this gave me chills, you really feel the terror from this since they're filmed at ground level from the perspective of Old Hawaiian Gunner), the finale X-wing fight, and Vader wrecking that hallway.
--The acting is good, but not great. As someone mentioned, this isn't as preachy as TFA, and they don't hit you over the head with any SJW nonsense. I'm more and more convinced that the studio people were trolling by tweeting out all of that casting crap, even if it was true. I think they were hoping for a reverse backlash, similar to what happened with Fury Road. This works when the final product is good, like this movie and Fury Road, and backfires when the movie is shit, like Ghostbusters: Shoot All Men in the Dick Edition.
--The characters are mostly great. Jyn, Cassian, Donnie Yen, Old Hawaiian Gunner, Forest Whitaker, even Director Krennic I thought were all good as far as characterization, motivations, and actions. I never had a problem with Krennic as the villain, he works in the context of this story, and I found him to be reasonably threatening to our heroes.
--Visual touches here and there. The look of the death star from the ground while it's above you. The look of the blast zone after it hits a planet. The AT-ATs towering above you. The AT-ST's walking through Jedha city. The look of the desert-style stormtroopers. The data center where the files were kept. The look of the tower on Scarif. The asteroid base(?) where Cassian finds out about the pilot traitor. Many other things I'm probably forgetting. All of it awesome and very Star Wars.
The Bad
--The music. It's not bad per se, but the lack of John Williams, and not using leitmotifs for various characters is glaring in its absence. For instance, when Donnie Yen walks through blaster fire untouched, would have been a perfect moment to use the force leitmotif, but we get nothing like that (IIRC).
--Why did Cassian have a spanish/mexican accent? He's a spy/assassin right? Wouldn't that mean he'd have to have, or at least adopt periodically, a british accent to fit in with all of the Imperials he's traveling around? When he was giving a few of those speeches I almost felt I was watching Narcos or Che Guevara or something. Kind of distracting.
--Why is the imperial cargo pilot traitor guy a Space Pakistani? We've been hit over the head that the empire is all about white supremacy or whatever, wouldn't this guy of all people be white? Also his accent was distracting in most of his scenes I thought.
--Some of the casting choices are slightly distracting, but this is kind of a nitpick. Ser Barristan is a rebel. Sherlock's idiot police pathologist is a rebel pussy. Claire Underwood's photographer fling is a rebel pilot (although I liked his role and his acting in general). This is the "Hey it's that guy!" phenomenon, and ESB had Cliff Claven, and a Retroactive Grand Maester Pycelle
--I didn't mind Tarkin's CGI face, but he had too much screen time, and they should have had him be more in the background threatening things instead of how front and center he was. Leia's face didn't look nearly as good though, and they should have kept her back to the camera.
--Vader issues: First of all, the temple looked very Mordor-ish. Don't rip off visuals from other famous franchises like that, jesus christ people. Second, why would he have that place on some lava planet? Just guessing, but I'd bet Vader isn't the type to want to be around a lot of fire after what happened to him. Moreover, all of the prequels, including this one, highlight the weird aspect in ANH of Vader listening to and obeying orders from Tarkin. Vader is the number 2 guy in the entire empire, why would he ever do anything that anyone who isn't the emperor commands him to do? Although to be fair, ESB highlights this as well. One last thing: James Earl Jones is getting to be really fucking old. You can hear it in his lines. This is the problem with continuing to try to have Vader in things: Vader doesn't work without Jones' voice. Just move on from Vader, people.
--My main problem with the movie: When they get the shield down and are able to transmit the plans into space, there's tons of rebel ships up there, but only that one ship gets them? Wouldn't all of them have received them? Some of those ships got away as well, wouldn't they have gotten away with the plans? Also, why the fuck would Leia be aboard that ship if this was an impromptu and desperate attack? Wouldn't she be somewhere nearby in a ship with plausible diplomatic cover, like it's implied in ANH? All they would have had to do is have some sort of ship escape, and meet up with Leia's ship to deliver the plans. Vader tracks that escaping ship, sees Leia's ship, puts 2 and 2 together, and boom, there's the opening to ANH. The direction they went with here is much less plausible and falls apart logically IMO.
TL ; DR:
This movie is basically unnecessary. There are a few flaws, and the company that makes it is likely a SJW run monstrosity bent on warping your mind in subtle and overt ways. I wish they'd do stories in the same time period as TFA, not around the OT.
I wanted it to be bad. The trouble is it just isn't. It's short of great, but it's very good. Better than TFA on initial viewing, and I suspect it will be the opposite of that movie, in that TFA falls apart more and more as time goes on, and I suspect this will be viewed as better as time goes on and you watch it multiple times. If you like Star Wars, you'll like Rogue One.
7.8/10
- 3
Rengak
Blackwing Lair Raider
- 2,879
- 2,761
1) The Empire is Human supremacists, not necessarily white supremacy
2) His Sauron tower was on Mustafar, so he still has some issues with the whole getting made more machine than man.
Kreugen
Vyemm Raider
- 6,599
- 793
Didn't feel like watching the vid but it seems to start off unfairly discounting the new designs for troopers/weapons/vehicles/aliens etc that they mixed in considering the time setting. (new to the movies anyway) One fucker was even toting an actual can of whoopass on his back.
I guess by ESB Vader has moved on from needing bacta baths to a simple hyperbolic chamber. Or he'd had a recent injury.
Cloaked guy just some random non-force Sith priest?
I guess by ESB Vader has moved on from needing bacta baths to a simple hyperbolic chamber. Or he'd had a recent injury.
Cloaked guy just some random non-force Sith priest?
Gavinmad
Mr. Poopybutthole
- 42,388
- 50,467
Well in the EU Vader was essentially the #2 guy in the entire Empire after Palpatine, so Tarkin having any kind of authority over him is patently ridiculous. Assuming that nonsense isn't canon anymore, it seems more like Vader isn't actually part of the military hierarchy at all, answering directly to the Emperor himself. In which case it makes at least some sense for him to listen to Tarkin since the Death Star is under his authority.
Depending on how intact his memories are of the Clone Wars, it's also possible that his personal respect for Tarkin also contributes to him going along with what Tarkin says.
Depending on how intact his memories are of the Clone Wars, it's also possible that his personal respect for Tarkin also contributes to him going along with what Tarkin says.
Mist
Eeyore Enthusiast
- 30,414
- 22,202
I don't kill myself because of math. My death is worth a lot more money after a specified date.
Jive Turkey
Karen
- 6,635
- 8,803
Why would what Vader saw affect what Leia says to him? We don't know if she's aware of what happened in the hallway fight. And he calls her out on being a liar. I'm not sure there's any plot hole here
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Intrinsic
Person of Whiteness
- 14,267
- 11,717
Yeah I didn't ever get the impression (within ANH at least) that Vader's position or authority was ever respected with the imperial military. He had to force choke a bitch just to get some respect on a conference call. Which made his first appearance in R1 even worse, especially considering his stupid pun. The guy apparently can't get anyone to listen to him without force choking people. Wish they would have left him to a reflection or suggested his presence in less direct ways until the end when he comes out and does his thing.
pharmakos
soʞɐɯɹɐɥd
- 16,306
- -2,237
- 10,524
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This still doesn't make sense when you take the rest of the Star Wars movies into account. You think no one in the Imperial Fleet hasn't heard about what Vader is capable of? Gossip in the military is a constant thing. Just look at how stormtroopers are always talking to each other about this or that while on guard duty. You think Vader's abilities have never come up in any of that?
The Imperial's attitude towards Vader in ESB is much more plausible. Every time Vader walks by, all the Imperial randoms are quietly trying not to shit themselves.
Of course, we all know the real reason for this inconsistency: ANH was written as a standalone movie, and when it took off in popularity, Vader's character was punched up by more talented writers into what we know him as today in ESB and ROTJ. His character as originally written in ANH was equivalent to the bad guy's worst henchman in an old WW2 movie, the head SS officer working with the army commander from the Wehrmacht if you will, and nothing more. Him being a lot more than that, especially all of that "chosen one" crap from the prequels was added later on. Hence the inconsistencies.
Miguex
The lad himself
- 2,216
- 1,738
Adding to what Intrinsic said, at the point of Rogue One, Vader is just short of a dog on a leash for Palpatine. Although he rises in importance through the OT, in ANH he's more of a joke to a lot of the imperial bureaucracy, many of whom have no belief in the force at that point and have never seen Vader even use it in any way. Tarkin is definitely well above him in the ranks, and that's part of the reason I think he chokes Krennic, for trying to manipulate and drag him into toadying up to the Emperor.
- 1
Daezuel
Potato del Grande
- 22,914
- 48,442
Spaceballs planet shield fucking lol, that's amazing.
Shit this might been the greatest movie ever had someone asked what the combination was.
Also needed a couple brothers combing the planet for the rebel spies.
- 1
Brahma
Obi-Bro Kenobi-X
- 11,967
- 42,438
I saw this last night - against my initial assessment - based on the reviews in this thread, and the fact that I'm an admitted sucker for Star Wars, warts and all. I've probably seen ESB over 100 times, especially when I was a kid, I'd watch a tape of it recorded from TV on VHS almost every Saturday.
WARNING: SPOILERS AHEAD
The Good
--The atmosphere of the movie, for lack of a better term. They absolutely nailed this, even better than TFA, which was very good at setting and imagery. Everything LOOKS right, even the things you haven't seen before, with only a few exceptions. The temple on Jedha, the way aliens interact with things, the base on Scarif, the wierd blue eyed alien head dude in Forest Whitaker's crew... all fantastic.
--The pacing. This is a tricky thing to get right, you want to keep things moving, so people don't have time to go "Hey wait, that thing back there didn't make sense!" (At least until the next day when they blast it onto the interwebs
--The action and battles were awesome. Yes you can pick nits here and there like why does Almost Force Monk beat up dudes in armor so easily, but that's an easy answer: Rule of Cool. Stormtroopers are the ultimate cinematic faceless mook army, the only thing they're for is to beat up in new and exciting ways. Special mention to the Xwings bombing Galen's base, the AT-AT's coming out of the fog on Scarif (this gave me chills, you really feel the terror from this since they're filmed at ground level from the perspective of Old Hawaiian Gunner), the finale X-wing fight, and Vader wrecking that hallway.
--The acting is good, but not great. As someone mentioned, this isn't as preachy as TFA, and they don't hit you over the head with any SJW nonsense. I'm more and more convinced that the studio people were trolling by tweeting out all of that casting crap, even if it was true. I think they were hoping for a reverse backlash, similar to what happened with Fury Road. This works when the final product is good, like this movie and Fury Road, and backfires when the movie is shit, like Ghostbusters: Shoot All Men in the Dick Edition.
--The characters are mostly great. Jyn, Cassian, Donnie Yen, Old Hawaiian Gunner, Forest Whitaker, even Director Krennic I thought were all good as far as characterization, motivations, and actions. I never had a problem with Krennic as the villain, he works in the context of this story, and I found him to be reasonably threatening to our heroes.
--Visual touches here and there. The look of the death star from the ground while it's above you. The look of the blast zone after it hits a planet. The AT-ATs towering above you. The AT-ST's walking through Jedha city. The look of the desert-style stormtroopers. The data center where the files were kept. The look of the tower on Scarif. The asteroid base(?) where Cassian finds out about the pilot traitor. Many other things I'm probably forgetting. All of it awesome and very Star Wars.
The Bad
--The music. It's not bad per se, but the lack of John Williams, and not using leitmotifs for various characters is glaring in its absence. For instance, when Donnie Yen walks through blaster fire untouched, would have been a perfect moment to use the force leitmotif, but we get nothing like that (IIRC).
--Why did Cassian have a spanish/mexican accent? He's a spy/assassin right? Wouldn't that mean he'd have to have, or at least adopt periodically, a british accent to fit in with all of the Imperials he's traveling around? When he was giving a few of those speeches I almost felt I was watching Narcos or Che Guevara or something. Kind of distracting.
--Why is the imperial cargo pilot traitor guy a Space Pakistani? We've been hit over the head that the empire is all about white supremacy or whatever, wouldn't this guy of all people be white? Also his accent was distracting in most of his scenes I thought.
--Some of the casting choices are slightly distracting, but this is kind of a nitpick. Ser Barristan is a rebel. Sherlock's idiot police pathologist is a rebel pussy. Claire Underwood's photographer fling is a rebel pilot (although I liked his role and his acting in general). This is the "Hey it's that guy!" phenomenon, and ESB had Cliff Claven, and a Retroactive Grand Maester Pycelle
--I didn't mind Tarkin's CGI face, but he had too much screen time, and they should have had him be more in the background threatening things instead of how front and center he was. Leia's face didn't look nearly as good though, and they should have kept her back to the camera.
--Vader issues: First of all, the temple looked very Mordor-ish. Don't rip off visuals from other famous franchises like that, jesus christ people. Second, why would he have that place on some lava planet? Just guessing, but I'd bet Vader isn't the type to want to be around a lot of fire after what happened to him. Moreover, all of the prequels, including this one, highlight the weird aspect in ANH of Vader listening to and obeying orders from Tarkin. Vader is the number 2 guy in the entire empire, why would he ever do anything that anyone who isn't the emperor commands him to do? Although to be fair, ESB highlights this as well. One last thing: James Earl Jones is getting to be really fucking old. You can hear it in his lines. This is the problem with continuing to try to have Vader in things: Vader doesn't work without Jones' voice. Just move on from Vader, people.
--My main problem with the movie: When they get the shield down and are able to transmit the plans into space, there's tons of rebel ships up there, but only that one ship gets them? Wouldn't all of them have received them? Some of those ships got away as well, wouldn't they have gotten away with the plans? Also, why the fuck would Leia be aboard that ship if this was an impromptu and desperate attack? Wouldn't she be somewhere nearby in a ship with plausible diplomatic cover, like it's implied in ANH? All they would have had to do is have some sort of ship escape, and meet up with Leia's ship to deliver the plans. Vader tracks that escaping ship, sees Leia's ship, puts 2 and 2 together, and boom, there's the opening to ANH. The direction they went with here is much less plausible and falls apart logically IMO.
TL ; DR:
This movie is basically unnecessary. There are a few flaws, and the company that makes it is likely a SJW run monstrosity bent on warping your mind in subtle and overt ways. I wish they'd do stories in the same time period as TFA, not around the OT.
I wanted it to be bad. The trouble is it just isn't. It's short of great, but it's very good. Better than TFA on initial viewing, and I suspect it will be the opposite of that movie, in that TFA falls apart more and more as time goes on, and I suspect this will be viewed as better as time goes on and you watch it multiple times. If you like Star Wars, you'll like Rogue One.
7.8/10
If I remember in the books it was stated more along the lines that the Emperor preferred/prejudiced toward humans. Nothing to do with color.
Vader is the baddest ass movie bad guy of all time...Their bread and butter. They would be silly not to cameo this dude every chance they get. James Earl sounded fantastic IMO. Not sure what lines came out "old guyish" if that's what you are implying.
As for Leia. I do agree kinda. But then I thought...why not have her there? You get an immune diplomat the plans immediately, that is clean as a whistle to the senate, to show them WTF the empire is doing, so they can act.
I always thought it went Emp to Tarkin to Vader as far as command went. Vader I saw as 3rd outta pure fear he put in everyone.
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You have to know your audience. Remember, these are the same retards who saw TFA fifteen times in the theaters, claiming it was better than the three originals combined, who are now on here a year later saying that TFA wasn't very good, and this is now such an awesome movie. If Rogue One was Kathy Bates on all fours fingering her own asshole, everyone here would defend it and say it was the best Star Wars movie ever.
- 2
Angelwatch
Trakanon Raider
- 3,053
- 133
I always viewed Vader as humoring Tarkin. He didn't have to actually kill the officer on the Death Star to get his point across that the Force is more powerful. Being Palpatine's apprentice, Vader is clearly number 2 in the Empire.
- 1