Star Wars: The Force Awakens (2015)

LOL why does that NOT make sense but saying that adding more blacks to the cast so brown kids can relate and feel represented DOES?

See my edit in the second paragraph.

Also, maybe try to account for the history of cinema when it comes to representation. And not just distant history. White men have NEVER had representation issues. Not true for other groups. Its stupid for white males to complain when they can find powerful other white males in the same exact movie. There is not a systemic issue for them and there never was. I think systemic issues are FAR less for POC than just two decades ago so it's much less of a problem now, but spare me the laments of people like maul/frenzied who no longer get complete racial domination.

edit: fuck editing on a phone

DickTrickle_sl said:

Also, maybe try to account for the history of cinema when it comes to representation. And not just distant history. White men have NEVER had representation issues. Not true for other groups.

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So if one were to "account" for the history of cinema and quantify what proportion of roles went to black folks, you somehow expect them to find that blacks represented LESS than the 10% proportion of the general population? Did you think that through? Even the Rat Pack was 25% black.

I smell a new "crisis"!

DickTrickle_sl said:

He was still a side character and also initially betrayed the heroes (even if somewhat forced). But if you think they should have no problem with the original series then white men shouldn't have issues with this one. Still plenty of white and/or male heroes.

However, once a black dude becomes a main heroic character, oh no, white dudes can't relate. It is so ridiculous. It's not like this is a story about inner city life. This is all fiction not substantially grounded in any real life culture or experience. Frenzied, maul, and whoever else are basically saying he can't relate because of skin color (well, and their own racist projections). It makes no rational sense.

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Actually I think it is more of a reaction to the hamfisting of diversity into everything. Turning superheroes gay, female, black etc that have always been white is rubbing a lot of people the wrong way. It'just a stupid way to do things. I can understand why people are reacting that way to it and to pretend it's nothing but racist is pure bullshit.

What we need is original characters that are minorities created by minorities. Suddenly making someone black, gay or whatever doesn't address the issue at all. We need more black artists, film makers etc(or at least ones that don't make fat black people dressed up as fat black women.) How exactly do you address cultural differences when the character is basically a fucking white guy with black skin? Where is the unique background or struggles that person went through? What motivates them and why? Instead we get a color change and call it a day.

Now granted we really know nothing of John Boyega's character and how he became a stormtrooper and it will probably be just fine since it is an original character. For all we know all Stormtroopers are black now and this new empire cloned a black dude, cause you know a pacific islander wasn't diverse enough. That still doesn't change the fact people don't like their childhoods being fucked with for PC's sake.

Hoss_sl said:

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You mock but if Finn and Rey end up having a romantic interest in one another in the eventual storyline, you watch and see just how much harder these sorts ends up loosing their shit over it.

Darth Coalburner would rustle mad jimmies.

khorum_sl said:

So if one were to "account" for the history of cinema and quantify what proportion of roles went to black folks, you somehow expect them to find that blacks represented LESS than the 13% proportion of the general population? Did you think that through? Even the Rat Pack was 25% black.

I smell a new "crisis"!

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I'm not sure if you're serious. The history of cinema? Main character representation less than 13% (background servant roles don't really count)? Absolutely. Yes, the rat pack was 25% but that's exactly one data point. As I said, it's far less of an issue in recent years. In fact, at least as far as acting goes, it's come a long way.

Or are you really trying to say racism didn't exist in the movie industry ever and it was always representative?

Let's cut to the chase: are frenzied and maul's complaints valid and worthy of being taken seriously?

Abefroman_sl said:

Actually I think it is more of a reaction to the hamfisting of diversity into everything. Turning superheroes gay, female, black etc that have always been white is rubbing a lot of people the wrong way. It'just a stupid way to do things. I can understand why people are reacting that way to it and to pretend it's nothing but racist is pure bullshit.

What we need is original characters that are minorities created by minorities. Suddenly making someone black, gay or whatever doesn't address the issue at all. We need more black artists, film makers etc(or at least ones that don't make fat black people dressed up as fat black women.) How exactly do you address cultural differences when the character is basically a fucking white guy with black skin? Where is the unique background or struggles that person went through? What motivates them and why? Instead we get a color change and call it a day.

Now granted we really know nothing of John Boyega's character and how he became a stormtrooper and it will probably be just fine since it is an original character. For all we know all Stormtroopers are black now and this new empire cloned a black dude, cause you know a pacific islander wasn't diverse enough. That still doesn't change the fact people don't like their childhoods being fucked with for PC's sake.

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All pretty good points.

However, at least on comics, aren't the "takeovers" usually a new character? The Latino spiderman wasnt Peter parker, for example. The female Thor isn't just a replacement for the real Thor, right? They do have their own stories, usually. Johnny storm in F4 didn't but it was filled by a hot actor so that makes some business sense.

DickTrickle_sl said:

All pretty good points.

However, at least on comics, aren't the "takeovers" usually a new character? The Latino spiderman wasnt Peter parker, for example. The female Thor isn't just a replacement for the real Thor, right? They do have their own stories, usually. Johnny storm in F4 didn't but it was filled by a hot actor so that makes some business sense.

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Making a character like Captain America black is fine because it is more of a title. Turning established names into something else is something I don't care for even if it is a new person that suddenly becomes spiderman. I don't want fucking white people writing stories for black people. A poor black kid who has experienced racisim his entire life suddenly gets powers. Does he abuse his powers, become a villian and how did the racisim affect him? That is what I want to read. The problem isn't not enough minority characters. It's not enough minority writers and film makers.

DickTrickle_sl said:

Let's cut to the chase: are frenzied and maul's complaints valid and worthy of being taken seriously?

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I only saw Frenzied's "complaint", which read more like an observation, but yeah of course it's valid and serious. It gets more valid and serious the more buttmad you get, too.

I even answered it before you edited your post: Why would you say that deliberately casting a black hero for the reason that black kids can relate to it make logical sense (and I agree it does), yet discovering that white viewers don't relate as much to black characters is somehow baffling and irrational?

Isn't this the little dude that's on the poster?

Jive Turkey_sl said:

Isn't this the little dude that's on the poster?

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Yah that looks like Maz Kanata. Dunno why but that thing it's riding looks like it belongs in the 5th element.

khorum_sl said:

I only saw Frenzied's "complaint", which read more like an observation, but yeah of course it's valid and serious. It gets more valid and serious the more buttmad you get, too.

I even answered it before you edited your post: Why would you say that deliberately casting a black hero for the reason that black kids can relate to it make logical sense (and I agree it does), yet discovering that white viewers don't relate as much to black characters is somehow baffling and irrational?

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For the record, Maul mentioned he couldn't imagine a black guy being a Jedi savior. Frenzied's observation was more measured, for sure.

And I already responded to the part of that with the history comment. A white man would take it for granted to find a relatable character based on race because that's been the status quo since the beginning. Again, based on your previous response, do you think racism never manifested itself in the casting of actors in the history of the film/tv industry?

You're being very presumptuous in thinking Boyega was cast for that reason. You have no reason except maybe the flimsiest of speculation to believe that's the case. Whatever though, let's pretend he was cast because he gave the best auditions. Do complaints about him being black and that making white men sad have any merit in that context?

I assume whatever the answer, I expect you'll never complain along racial lines about any casting (except as devil's advocate against people like me), right?

Abefroman_sl said:

Actually I think it is more of a reaction to the hamfisting of diversity into everything. Turning superheroes gay, female, black etc that have always been white is rubbing a lot of people the wrong way. It'just a stupid way to do things. I can understand why people are reacting that way to it and to pretend it's nothing but racist is pure bullshit. That still doesn't change the fact people don't like their childhoods being fucked with for PC's sake.

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This, I think, addresses a lot of it. People confuse people being angry at replacing long standing characters with PoC, with racism, it's not--it is getting annoyed at established material being changed for something that doesn't serve the story better. I mean there is a fucking term for when Hollywood made other ethnicities into white characters; most white people now agree that was/iswrong, and it's racist. It's why a lot of white people lined up to condemn the new Exodus film, it's why whenever that happens now we never hear the end of it. It's also why that happening "in reverse" isn't right either. "Making things right" shouldn't essentially be doing the same thing but in reverse. As you said, we need new black characters.

Now, in this case, this is a new character--him being a black dude? That's cool, that's actually how new black characters or other minority characters should rise. Their own stories, their own films. The only other issue is story tellers shouldn't be hammered into making roles they don't want, they shouldn't feel pressured to make someone any color than what they imagine, if a director finds all white actors he likes? Fuck the people who dislike the film JUST on that basis. On the same token, if the dude finds a bunch of black guys who fill the roles best? Fuck the people who dislike the film just based on that, it works in both directions, artistic freedom is really important (You can look for discrimination in all other markets, but artists should have free reign in terms of appearance.)...Which is why you're right, we need more minoritycreators, because their vision will help get more minorities into those roles naturally.

Lithose_sl said:

Now, in this case, this is a new character--him being a black dude? That's cool, that's actually how new black characters or other minority characters should rise. Their own stories, their own films. The only other issue is story tellers shouldn't be hammered into making roles they don't want, they shouldn't feel pressured to make someone any color than what they imagine, if a director finds all white actors he likes? Fuck the people who dislike the film JUST on that basis. On the same token, if the dude finds a bunch of black guys who fill the roles best? Fuck the people who dislike the film just based on that, it works in both directions...

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That's pretty reasonable. However, do you think a problem exists if all these individual decisions end up in an industry where blacks (or Hispanics nowadays) are significantly squeezed out? How do you correct that? Do you chalk it up them just not being talented enough?

If that systemic issue exists and if it is because of some underlying racism, how else would you attempt to correct it except by applying social pressure to force those in power to at least sell the idea that they're not racist or show them racism will hurt their business (in turn causing more opportunities for minorities)? I feel that's all that activists have done historically (though it inevitably goes too far because of the need to perpetuate the same outrage with smaller and smaller actual offenses -- no one ever really closes up shop or dials things down and says "We made things better, time to move on to bigger fish"). Isn't such activism a manifestation of a desire to see different views and so the media should try to supply that anyway?

Anyone thinking of posting or reposting their super sekret l33t infoz better include Boba Fett as a major god damned character. There's no way Disney is making a 9 figure movie/series around this particular character otherwise imo.

The First Order: No Disintegration

Kiroy_sl said:

There's not to many of em but ya, it's a crazy experience. You have little buttons you can push at your seat, and like a little rotating table you can use like a tv tray. You push a button at any time and a server is there in 2 seconds to get you what you want. My first time going I was dubious that it was going to be distracting as fuck having people running around but it really isn't. They have a lot less total seats and big gaps between rows and the servers are trained to duck like champs. When you buy your tickets you do it online ahead of time and reserve your seats. It's really cool.

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This is why ISIS hates us. They jelly.

Why is a main character being black an issue??? I never questioned it.

Chris_sl said:

Why is a main character being black an issue??? I never questioned it.

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Thought it would be a good conversation topic for farming negs.