Star Wars: The Force Awakens (2015)

Tarrant_sl said:

And that in itself bothered me too because right out the gate you saw that and you were like "WOAH WTF THIS DUDE MUST BE LEGIT!!!"

Then an hour later you see...no, not so much, he's an emo kid with daddy issues.

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That is the entire point of the character. Tons of power but internally a complete mess which weakens him. It is almost like he has room to grow and change as a character over the next two movies. Some of you fuckers are dense as shit.

Foggy_sl said:

That is the entire point of the character. Tons of power but internally a complete mess which weakens him. It is almost like he has room to grow and change as a character over the next two movies. Some of you fuckers are dense as shit.

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Not so much really, what they're setting up is the cliched epiphany that is sure to come eventually. And you know it's going to be over something far less trivial than ramming a lightsaber through your father's chest. Seriously the "what have I done" line is upon us.

Ambiturner_sl said:

Please give an example of Vader's "depth" from A New Hope

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His voice was deep as shit.

As for Kylo Ren, his story with Han, Lea and Luke is straight out of corporate America. It's like, imagine Luke, Han and Lea are now some industry bigwigs. They all went to college together. Luke and Lea had a thing but it didn't work out, but the three of them are real tight. Lots of long nights studying and working on pet projects until finally they stumble on something great and drop out of college to fight hard to bring the product to market. Decades later they are the legends that most start ups dream about, riding high with equity coming out of their ears.

They have since settled down. Han marries Lea and they had a kid; Who has now just finished college and is being groomed to take his place in the pantheon of business gods. Except, something goes wrong. The kid is a total nightmare; an over protected, over privileged, entitled spoiled brat. Han and Lea are worried but they hope some ownership in his work will smooth things out. Once he gets his first project under his belt he will be hooked.

So he comes on board and starts working in a team headed by Luke on a special new project. This thing is going to be big. That's when stuff goes down fast. Kylo flips his shit over having to obey people who he doesn't even know, and hates the workload and responsibility. So he winds up doing the unthinkable, he goes rogue and steals the info on the new project and sells it to the competition. There is a scandal. The media rips the family business apart, investors start bailing thinking this is the sign that they have simply aged out of the market and are no longer relevant.

Han goes into early retirement; Luke goes awol on some sort of spirit quest in the Himalayas and Lea is left trying to manage what's left of the enterprise after a massive round of layoffs. And then there is Kylo, smiling at his brand new shiny top floor office suite at Backstabber Inc.

That's pretty much the backstory going into TFA. They wrote it to resonate with every parent who has ever been disappointed with their talented but spoiled and morally deficient children.

Foggy_sl said:

That is the entire point of the character. Tons of power but internally a complete mess which weakens him. It is almost like he has room to grow and change as a character over the next two movies. Some of you fuckers are dense as shit.

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I guess some people wanted him to pop out of Leia's vag with the mask already on and a 100% dark side bad ass.

You're right, he's a kid. I'm pretty sure they intentionally had him throwing tantrums and displaying little self control to prove the point that he's a conflicted, unfinished product (which is what Snoke basically calls Ren).

He's gonna dabble with the light. Rey is gonna dabble with the dark. It's really no different than what Anakin or Luke went through because that seems to be the nature of the bloodline and maybe of the force itself.

The biggest difference is the acting and dialog isn't complete dogshit this time.

Ren would have been a much cooler character if Han dies at the end of episode V after knocking up Leia. Instead of Han on the bridge, it's Luke.

It's not just the moping and tantrums, it's the fact they he got his ass handed to him by a chick with absolutely no training and who's experience with the force has all come in the last 25 minutes.

I get that he isn't "fully" trained, but he should still have a pretty dramatic edge over someone with no training at all. I just don't see why he should be feared or seen as any sort of challenge for Rey after she's been trained by Luke.

Dude went from Darth Jesus to Cobra Commander in the span of an hour.

man, so many crazy. hurr durr, he should have been a super cool badass like Sephiroth! Bruesshshs.. be cool like, walk through flames!

Look at this shit.


Dude is a monster. They humanized him on purpose. played down how large he is. The entire point WAS to give a mirrored/different story arch. He is the flawed character, and he fails, and he is flawed. And turns into a monster. Badass from point A to B you already saw.
We are getting a journey to th sith, that isn't "Whelp I killed Sam Jackson. best go kill some younglings now, cause Im evil I suppose"

The next time he fights Ray, he won't be hunched over constantly.

Ambiturner_sl said:

It's not just the moping and tantrums, it's the fact they he got his ass handed to him by a chick with absolutely no training and who's experience with the force has all come in the last 25 minutes.

I get that he isn't "fully" trained, but he should still have a pretty dramatic edge over someone with no training at all. I just don't see why he should be feared or seen as any sort of challenge for Rey after she's been trained by Luke.

Dude went from Darth Jesus to Cobra Commander in the span of an hour.

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It's not just that he isn't fully trained. Pretty sure we're going to find out that Rey WAS trained as a youngling before being dumped on Jakku and probably mind wiped and that she was recalling some of that training. He was also bleeding out onto the snow after being shot by Chewie's bowcaster, something they went out of their way to emphasize (i.e. Ren pounding his own wounded side, Han falling in love with Chewie's weapon - which was kind of dumb after all those years together).

The novelization also does a way better job of describing his state of mind after killing Han (i.e. it fucked with him more than emboldened him). The novelization also does better at explaining how Rey was tapping into the dark side and how close she comes to embracing it.

I think that scene fails the characterization they were going for after reading the story.

I'm not worried about Adam Driver portraying Ren as a badass motherfucker in the second movie after Snoke dark-rapes him, I think that'll be relatively easy for him to pull off.

It's almost like we had this same exact conversation/debate a month ago.

Vulg_sl said:

It's not just that he isn't fully trained. Pretty sure we're going to find out that Rey WAS trained as a youngling before being dumped on Jakku and probably mind wiped and that she was recalling some of that training. He was also bleeding out onto the snow after being shot by Chewie's bowcaster, something they went out of their way to emphasize (i.e. Ren pounding his own wounded side, Han falling in love with Chewie's weapon - which was kind of dumb after all those years together).

The novelization also does a way better job of describing his state of mind after killing Han (i.e. it fucked with him more than emboldened him). The novelization also does better at explaining how Rey was tapping into the dark side and how close she comes to embracing it.

I think that scene fails the characterization they were going for after reading the story.

I'm not worried about Adam Driver portraying Ren as a badass motherfucker in the second movie after Snoke dark-rapes him, I think that'll be relatively easy for him to pull off.

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I hope so. I honestly liked the movie, but I agree the character came off pretty weak and didn't seem like the same guy from the beginning of the movie.

Ambiturner_sl said:

It's not just the moping and tantrums, it's the fact they he got his ass handed to him by a chick with absolutely no training and who's experience with the force has all come in the last 25 minutes.

I get that he isn't "fully" trained, but he should still have a pretty dramatic edge over someone with no training at all. I just don't see why he should be feared or seen as any sort of challenge for Rey after she's been trained by Luke.

Dude went from Darth Jesus to Cobra Commander in the span of an hour.

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One thing I read was that he has both light and dark power at the beginning and he is a total badass and stops blaster shots etc and then after he extinquishes the light side by killing Han he gets weaker and that is why he seems so surpised when chewie blasters him and he just eats it and rey just yanks the saber away from him etc.

ganthorn_sl said:

One thing I read was that he has bothlight and darkpower at the beginning and he is a total badass and stops blaster shots etc and then after he extinquishes the light side by killing Han he gets weaker and that is why he seems so surpised when chewie blasters him and he just eats it and rey just yanks the saber away from him etc.

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I think it'd be cool if Abrams et. are headed down the path of challenging the view of the force as something that needs to be considered in absolutes.

The notion ofGray Jedihas been lurking a long time and the canon doesn't preclude it.

When they revealed in TFA that Luke was off looking for the original Jedi temple, I thought it'd be way more interesting if he was seeking to change the script rather than the traditional "I'm gonna build an army of white-robed good guys to fight the inevitable evil".

Vulg_sl said:

I think it'd be cool if Abrams et. are headed down the path of challenging the view of the force as something that needs to be considered in absolutes.

The notion ofGray Jedihas been lurking a long time and the canon doesn't preclude it.

When they revealed in TFA that Luke was off looking for the original Jedi temple, I thought it'd be way more interesting if he was seeking to change the script rather than the traditional "I'm gonna build an army of white-robed good guys to fight the inevitable evil".

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No reason they can't still go that way. Luke tried to make them all light side, which didn't work because there has to be a balance or something. They discover the only way to get rid of the dark side completely is to eliminate the light side as well.

Ambiturner_sl said:

No reason they can't still go that way. Luke tried to make them all light side, which didn't work because there has to be a balance or something. They discover the only way to get rid of the dark side completely is to eliminate the light side as well.

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Wasn't Mara Jade part of that whole thing... and Luke himself had to tap into the dark side to beat Vader and, if you just watched the first part of RoTJ you would think Luke was a sith force choking those pig guards n shit.

Aren't they going Grey Jedi route in Rebels? You have Ahsoka with her white sabers who no longer follows the Jedi Code, and Ezra who taps into the dark side on occasion. Then there are the masked dudes in white we still have no idea who they are. Rebels is canon and there are going to start being links to TFA.

Cucknoomba Wheaton_sl said:

Thank you. I felt like I was the only person bugged by that.

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Bugged me too

Mist_sl said:

I just hope they can make Rey's story interesting, because it's absolutely not so far.

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I like the idea that she found the Force more organically than Luke did. I feel like Luke was more of a curious student of the force, whereas Rey is more like a natural prodigy of it. Nurture vs Nature. At least, that's how I took it in my one viewing. And if that is the direction they take with her I think she can be a totally awesome character with tons of potential and cool things for her to discover. The actress was pretty decent I'd say so the writers do have some room to play with her adventures if they think the actress can handle it.

Fin is in a similar position. Here he is an 'unplugged' storm trooper who is trying to be 'good' in a world he knows nothing about. Another apparently good actor. Tons of potential conflict, discovery, and development available.

Maybe I'm just being a drooling fanboy but I think the writers did a fine job. They are approaching this new story from the bottom up and are not trying to fist fuck us with mechanical and soul crushing predestination the way Lucas did with his prequels. Rather than painting themselves into a corner, I'd say these writers have planted a fertile seed and need only add water and sunlight from this point on!

Also. Fuck all ya'll Kylo Ren haters!