Star Wars: The Force Awakens (2015)

Famm

Famm

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So Darth is his first name, not his title. Seems more like its just the first name all sith take when they give up their former identity, not a title. Really more like a code name, but the whole thing was just born of "hey, what would sound super fuckin evil for this guy to be called?"

I don't have a point, I just always thought it sounded stupid when he says that. I really think it was intended to be a first name back when they made EP1 but as the series grew and demanded more robust backstories it became some generic dark side jedi "title" or generic sith guy first name. Originally though that was on Vader's birth cert before Lucas decided he was Luke's father. His parents were Mr. and Mrs. Vader of Coruscant. He might have even been Darth Jr.
 
Gavinmad

Gavinmad

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I'm not arguing against that. I think the EU developed basically all the Sith back story. The word Sith does appear repeatedly in the original Star Wars script, not in any of the spoken lines but in the little blurbs where they set up the scenes Vader is referred to as a Sith Lord or a Dark Lord of the Sith five separate times. Probably just a ominous sounding fluff word that Lucas might have had some kind of vague idea for, but there was never any need to expound on it for the movies.
 
Famm

Famm

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Yeah the "sith" thing was around from the beginning but they seemed to fill in the blanks on what it actually meant as time went on.
 
Palum

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How do you know it isn't like surname first in Sith culture so they all take the surname of Darth?
 
Gavinmad

Gavinmad

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There are all sorts of crazy theories about it but my assumption has always been that it's just a contraction of Dark Lord of the Sith.
 
Skylancer81

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Darth = Master.
Darth is the Sith's title for Master.
Jedi use Master.
At least that has always been my understanding of it since Empire Strikes Back in 1980.
 
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I thought it was fairly widely accepted that Darth was a Sith title and the only reason it doesn't fit with the initial introduction is for the same reason everything else is wonky in the original Star Wars: Lucas didn't know there was going to be more movies AND hadn't actually filled in any of the extra story beats and lore yet.
 
zzeris

zzeris

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skylancer81_sl said:
Darth = Master.
Darth is the Sith's title for Master.
Jedi use Master.
At least that has always been my understanding of it since Empire Strikes Back in 1980.
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Obi-Wan would have never called Vader master in their duel though. Especially not a Sith title of value. I personally think it's an adjustment from Lucas after the moviet exceeds all expected levels. "Damn, we need more background!!!" It became the nom de guerre after they hit a certain level as Sith but it didn't start that way.

Beat to the punch.
 
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The Ancient_sl

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Gryce_sl said:
I thought it was fairly widely accepted that Darth was a Sith title and the only reason it doesn't fit with the initial introduction is for the same reason everything else is wonky in the original Star Wars: Lucas didn't know there was going to be more movies AND hadn't actually filled in any of the extra story beats and lore yet.
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Is it because there were more movies though? Isn't the EU full of Darths? You can blame fan fiction for half this shit.
 
ohkcrlho

ohkcrlho

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Ffs from what i can gather, Darth Vader was the name he adopted or given by the emperor. Lord was his title maybe because in the beginning, he was a small part of a bigger story. There were admirals and commanders, it looked like he was not fully in charge. Or maybe he was but he had someone beside him.
This was in Star Wars. In ESB, due to the charater's popularity, his notability grew and he acted like 2nd in command, after the Emperor.

Sith, every bad guy is called Darth and other related shit.....all related to the prequels and EU. I really don't care about that and even disregard it.
You care too much about stuff outside the trilogy Imo.
 
Royal

Royal

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ohkcrlho_sl said:
There were admirals and commanders, it looked like he was not fully in charge.
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He certainly wasn't fully in charge in the original movie. Remember how deferential he was to Governor Tarkin. That man copped an attitude with a guy that everyone else in the later movies except the Emperor openly cowered from.
 
Drakain

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My interpretation of the chain of command was, Emperor>Grand Moff>Regional Governors>Admirals> etc...
As of ANH, Vader was a Sith Lord like Maul was in the prequels. After Yavin, Vader was given Second-in-command status.
Think of it like a Cardinal would be in the Catholic Church if there was only one Cardinal. A Cardinal would have respect status in the majority of Western Cultures, but would wield little actual power.
Now pretend the Pope and his Cardinal have magic powers, and the Pope decides to rule the world with his terror troops, vast amount of military infrastructure, and magical influence. Now he decides his Cardinal, who proved himself by being the only survivor of a massive defeat, is going to be his right hand and be given ruling power over the military and you have Vader.
 
Khalan

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Drakain_sl said:
My interpretation of the chain of command was, Emperor>Grand Moff>Regional Governors>Admirals> etc...
As of ANH, Vader was a Sith Lord like Maul was in the prequels. After Yavin, Vader was given Second-in-command status.
Think of it like a Cardinal would be in the Catholic Church if there was only one Cardinal. A Cardinal would have respect status in the majority of Western Cultures, but would wield little actual power.
Now pretend the Pope and his Cardinal have magic powers, and the Pope decides to rule the world with his terror troops, vast amount of military infrastructure, and magical influence. Now he decides his Cardinal, who proved himself by being the only survivor of a massive defeat, is going to be his right hand and be given ruling power over the military and you have Vader.
Click to expand...
I dont think in ANH Vader was even really in the command structure. He didnt sit around governing shit. He was more the evil pitbull of the emperor. Even in ESB and ROTJ there were probably imperial officers/generals who controlled/commanded more than him and "outranked" him but listened to him out fear of his ancient magic. He had some power obviously as he was promoting people like nothing in ESB but it could have been just within his battlegroup.

anyways who cares. Lucas had no idea what he was doing in a new hope and the continuity def takes some hits. Just move along.
 
Hoss

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There were no other Darth's in the original trilogy. It's pretty obvious lucas was going for the 'dark father' vibe with darth vader. He was also a lord because when he became palpatine's apprentice, he became a sith lord. I don't know when the whole darth being a title instead of a name came about, but I remember it came from lucas when he was collaborating with the people writing the EU. I can't remember who the second character was to be called darth. There were a lot of dark jedi in the books who weren't sith lords and weren't called darth.

I reject that darth is analogous to a jedi master because vader was not a master, the emporer was the master. Maybe it's analogous to a knight for the jedi, but thinking of it as a family name makes the most sense.
 
Runnen

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Drakain_sl said:
My interpretation of the chain of command was, Emperor>Grand Moff>Regional Governors>Admirals> etc...
As of ANH, Vader was a Sith Lord like Maul was in the prequels. After Yavin, Vader was given Second-in-command status.
Think of it like a Cardinal would be in the Catholic Church if there was only one Cardinal. A Cardinal would have respect status in the majority of Western Cultures, but would wield little actual power.
Now pretend the Pope and his Cardinal have magic powers, and the Pope decides to rule the world with his terror troops, vast amount of military infrastructure, and magical influence. Now he decides his Cardinal, who proved himself by being the only survivor of a massive defeat, is going to be his right hand and be given ruling power over the military and you have Vader.
Click to expand...
The hierarchy of Emperor > Grand Moffs > Vader is correct. In ROTJ deleted scenes, Grand Moff Jerjerrod was actually much more of a rival to Vader, and was the main advisor of the Emperor. There was even a scene where Vader goes to see the Emperor in his throne room and is stopped by Jerjerrod and two Royal Guards who tell him the Emperor does not wish to be disturbed. At that point Vader chokes Jerjerrod and goes in anyway.

Then in the theatrical cut and all subsequent releases he was turned into a rather cowardly, and probably more reasonable, high ranking officer, but not on the level of Tarkin attitude anymore.
 
Gavinmad

Gavinmad

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Hoss_sl said:
It's pretty obvious lucas was going for the 'dark father' vibe with darth vader.
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This has been repeatedly debunked. The dutch word for dark is donker, not darth, and vader is pronounced very differently in dutch. It's also been well established that Anakin and Darth Vader didn't get merged into a single character until they were working on Empire Strikes back, well after he was given the name Darth Vader.

Also, your understanding of the word master is sadly lacking. In the context of the Jedi, the title 'Master' signifies mastery of the force separately from the relationship between Master and Apprentice. When Yoda addresses him as Master Qui-Gon, he's not acknowledging that Qui-Gon is his master, but that Qui-Gon is a master.
 
Hoss

Hoss

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The Ancient_sl said:
Only a Master of Evil, Darth.
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That was in response to vader taunting him with "Now I'm the master". As in, immabout to teach you a lesson as I whoop the bantha poodoo out of you.

Gavinmad_sl said:
This has been repeatedly debunked. The dutch word for dark is donker, not darth, and vader is pronounced very differently in dutch. It's also been well established that Anakin and Darth Vader didn't get merged into a single character until they were working on Empire Strikes back, well after he was given the name Darth Vader.

Also, your understanding of the word master is sadly lacking. In the context of the Jedi, the title 'Master' signifies mastery of the force separately from the relationship between Master and Apprentice. When Yoda addresses him as Master Qui-Gon, he's not acknowledging that Qui-Gon is his master, but that Qui-Gon is a master.
Click to expand...
Star wars was originally written in english for english speaking audiences. Not sure if you know that with your discussion of the intricacies of the dutch language.

Also, your understanding of the word master is sadly lacking. In the context of the Jedi, Master can signify mastery of the force or taking on a padawan. In the context of the sith and the rule of 2, there was one master. "one to embody the power, and one to crave it".
 
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