Star Wars: The Last Jedi (2017)
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jayrebb
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Gotta be a troll or bait of some kind right? LOTR is being used in reviews as a direct comparison of what TLJ and to a lesser extent TFA should not be, character-wise.
Marveling at the irony here as you clearly meant this in earnest.
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The kind of different we got in this film is something I would welcome in the side movies. I would enjoy a Rian Johnson Rogue One more than the one that was released last year.
For TLJ though as a main episode movie, it needed to explore new territory as variations on a theme instead of the radical shift he went with.
For TLJ though as a main episode movie, it needed to explore new territory as variations on a theme instead of the radical shift he went with.
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Muligan
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I wouldn't look too deep into my post. I simply meant, regardless how I feel after watching TLJ tonight, I may think Rian's decisions are more worthwhile when we see how 9 plays out. I can't get into specific points due to spoilers and only reading what others have shared but, i'm not sure I'm going to feel about his story decision, specifically with a couple of characters but, maybe after we see 9, I can say, "I get it".
I drew the comparison to LotR only because I really liked the FotR but I didn't appreciate it as much as I do now. Jackson took some minor liberties, chose to pace it a certain way, and I was a little afraid that he would miss the intensity of some the battles moving forward in the next two films. After watching TTT and RotK, I appreciated how he set up the story, tone, and pacing much more. It's not a great comparison but some times you appreciate what a film with multiple installments is doing when the whole picture comes together.
Never the less, I was attempting to make a point of my perception more so of a comparison of movies.
Grivyn
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I am disappoint....
TFA was basically a reshoot of A New Hope, this one seems to be a mis-mash of Empire Strikes Back and Return of the Jedi with pointless cutesy child humour spliced through it and a touch of Matrix. Here's and idea let's replace snow with salt and rust buckets instead of speeders. We also don't need those TunTun thingy instead lets use pointless sparkly doggy things cause you know everyone loves dogs! Oh guys let's replace the Cantina with a Casino, but without the who shot first moment then get preachy about the rich. Oh and I know lets have a strangle planet with a jedi master and a hole in the ground where the trainee goes to "find themselves".
Struggle to see how "Jack Sparrow in space hackerman" knew of the transports seeing as they weren't told as flyboy didn't know until last minute. There wasn't a single plot point not rehashed from earlier movies, stupid animal rights salute just needed a Jar Jar type character to complete the buffoonary.
Struggle to see how "Jack Sparrow in space hackerman" knew of the transports seeing as they weren't told as flyboy didn't know until last minute. There wasn't a single plot point not rehashed from earlier movies, stupid animal rights salute just needed a Jar Jar type character to complete the buffoonary.
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ohkcrlho
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Pointless stuff:
-phasma: the audience , after TFA, said she was misused. And what they did? The same shit lol
-decipher: was only because benicio del toro wanted a part on SW, right? Did nothing at all. Well that whole part was pointless as fuck.
-finn and rose: Disney had to, didn't they? A fucking (forced) love story in this shit. And of course the result was shit. Kissing in the middle of a battlefield and saying "fight for what we love?" REALLY?REALLY?????
- holdo: tagged along with benicio just for a paycheck. At least they should have stayed with her just to have a conflict between the rebels.
-fucking kids: I hate kids in movies, everyone does. They are shit actors and are only there for the demographics.
-those horses thingys: REALLY? Disney made me feel like shit in a SW movie. Why? I don't want that. Nobody wants.
-politics: rich vs poor....YAWN
-snoke: yup....i read minds from everyone, I control everything, I run this bitch like a motherfucking clock....and was not expecting kylo's using the lightsaber lol
-snoke's guards: looking badass, can't fight for shit.
-decipher: was only because benicio del toro wanted a part on SW, right? Did nothing at all. Well that whole part was pointless as fuck.
-finn and rose: Disney had to, didn't they? A fucking (forced) love story in this shit. And of course the result was shit. Kissing in the middle of a battlefield and saying "fight for what we love?" REALLY?REALLY?????
- holdo: tagged along with benicio just for a paycheck. At least they should have stayed with her just to have a conflict between the rebels.
-fucking kids: I hate kids in movies, everyone does. They are shit actors and are only there for the demographics.
-those horses thingys: REALLY? Disney made me feel like shit in a SW movie. Why? I don't want that. Nobody wants.
-politics: rich vs poor....YAWN
-snoke: yup....i read minds from everyone, I control everything, I run this bitch like a motherfucking clock....and was not expecting kylo's using the lightsaber lol
-snoke's guards: looking badass, can't fight for shit.
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Runnen
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My reponse, some counterpoints, some agreement, and some opinions. You don't like it, I like it, doesn't mean you hate everything about it and that I love everything about it, let's talk.
Phasma : Phasma should have been TR-8R in TFA, dueling Finn with the electric baton. Instead she was a huge wasted opportunity, mostly because the script was written long before Christie came in, and the marketing hyped her character way more than they should have. It's the Boba Fett syndrome though, people liked her because she looked cool but she really doesn't do much. She at least does more in TLJ, though it still feels like it's a lot of hype for not much in the end. Glad she got her ass kicked, but I have a feeling we may see her again.
Slicer/DJ/Del Toro : Felt weird. Casting choice was odd. His mannerisms also. In the end, this whole subplot is unclear because they originally went to hire ANOTHER slicer and somehow ended up finding the best one ever randomly. Who also betrayed them but it's not certain whether that was his plan all along or not. So yeah, this subplot was unnecessary, its only payoff was to bring Finn and Phasma face to face but could have been handled better.
Finn/Rose : I didn't mind the love story, Rose was not as annoying as I anticipated. Her story arc was satisfying but could have done without the casino part as mentionned above. I really thought Finn was going to sacrifice himself in the end on Crait. Glad he's not dead, I like him.
Holdo : I didn't care for the pink curly hair, but the character was pretty interesting, and the politics/munity stuff was well done. Her epic sacrifice and the related scene redeemed the pink hair I thought.
Cat-horse mounts : I thought they were cute. Not sure why you got so angry over cute animals. The point is to heavy-handedly show the Resistance is the good guys because they care about nature and the greedy corporate casino players and the evil empire don't care about animals. It's not subtle one bit, but no one ever accused Star Wars of being subtle, the same thing happened with the Ewoks.
Rich vs Poor : I thought DJ's point about how some iron mongers got rich by selling weapons to the Empire but ALSO to the Rebel Alliance/Resistance was a fine point to make this usually so black and white conflict look a bit more grey. In the same way I liked how Cassan assassinated someone in cold blood in Rogue One, because it shows you can't be a Rebel Alliance blowing factories up, stealing things and killing imperial soldiers without doing shady things and looking like terrorists most of the time.
Snoke : On this point, I disagree with you because this scene was handled and explained very properly I thought. Obviously Snoke is very confident, too much, and he thinks he cannot be betrayed by Kylo Ren because he can read his mind. That's why Kylo Ren acts this scene as he does, because everything Snoke senses is true. He is facing Rey and turning his saber towards her, and Snoke says he can feel him thinking about doing it, because he is turning the -other- saber... then preparing to kill his enemy, because he is thinking of it in that way, except the enemy is Snoke in this moment. Obviously I don't have to explain the scene, you saw it yourself, but really the whole "I can read his every thought so he cannot surprise me" was well-handled because it was turned on its head and I thought it worked great. Everyone was very surprised in the theater when it happened, and it was a really bold move.
Praetorian Guards : The Emperor's Royal Guards looked very badass. Never moved an inch. The Praetorian Guards had an extended fight scene and proved a challenge to two of the most powerful Force users in the saga. I'd say they did the job.
Slicer/DJ/Del Toro : Felt weird. Casting choice was odd. His mannerisms also. In the end, this whole subplot is unclear because they originally went to hire ANOTHER slicer and somehow ended up finding the best one ever randomly. Who also betrayed them but it's not certain whether that was his plan all along or not. So yeah, this subplot was unnecessary, its only payoff was to bring Finn and Phasma face to face but could have been handled better.
Finn/Rose : I didn't mind the love story, Rose was not as annoying as I anticipated. Her story arc was satisfying but could have done without the casino part as mentionned above. I really thought Finn was going to sacrifice himself in the end on Crait. Glad he's not dead, I like him.
Holdo : I didn't care for the pink curly hair, but the character was pretty interesting, and the politics/munity stuff was well done. Her epic sacrifice and the related scene redeemed the pink hair I thought.
Cat-horse mounts : I thought they were cute. Not sure why you got so angry over cute animals. The point is to heavy-handedly show the Resistance is the good guys because they care about nature and the greedy corporate casino players and the evil empire don't care about animals. It's not subtle one bit, but no one ever accused Star Wars of being subtle, the same thing happened with the Ewoks.
Rich vs Poor : I thought DJ's point about how some iron mongers got rich by selling weapons to the Empire but ALSO to the Rebel Alliance/Resistance was a fine point to make this usually so black and white conflict look a bit more grey. In the same way I liked how Cassan assassinated someone in cold blood in Rogue One, because it shows you can't be a Rebel Alliance blowing factories up, stealing things and killing imperial soldiers without doing shady things and looking like terrorists most of the time.
Snoke : On this point, I disagree with you because this scene was handled and explained very properly I thought. Obviously Snoke is very confident, too much, and he thinks he cannot be betrayed by Kylo Ren because he can read his mind. That's why Kylo Ren acts this scene as he does, because everything Snoke senses is true. He is facing Rey and turning his saber towards her, and Snoke says he can feel him thinking about doing it, because he is turning the -other- saber... then preparing to kill his enemy, because he is thinking of it in that way, except the enemy is Snoke in this moment. Obviously I don't have to explain the scene, you saw it yourself, but really the whole "I can read his every thought so he cannot surprise me" was well-handled because it was turned on its head and I thought it worked great. Everyone was very surprised in the theater when it happened, and it was a really bold move.
Praetorian Guards : The Emperor's Royal Guards looked very badass. Never moved an inch. The Praetorian Guards had an extended fight scene and proved a challenge to two of the most powerful Force users in the saga. I'd say they did the job.
ohkcrlho
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Atrocious stuff:
-leia: Leia surviving in deep space and flying like Mary poppins. CRINGE
Her being hurt didn't do anything, just so to make Holdo a "bad bitch".
This was what made start to disbelieve with this movie.
And is she going to die off screen?
-Too.Many.Jokes: i know everyone loves MCU style but even though I don't like, I can live with that.
But on SW movie? Nah sorry...too stupid, too corny, too out of place.
-the pacing: 1st 45 min-1 hour were good. But after that , was just a disjointed mess.
-kylo: liked in TFA, he was just a confused mind, trying to prove to himself, that he could be better than everyone thought. Emo shit blablabla still it was an interesting starting point.
But now? Confused, angry, sappy, confused again, moppy, inraged, acting like a kid throwing a tantrum.
That enigmatic character, sometimes menacing...now an erratic petulant child, trying to be mean and violent.
-rey: she is not even a Disney princess...she's just there. There to be the "strong" female lead. But she wasn't strong, she was not believable. I blame the director for this one...I don't know.
-luke: hated his character. Holy fuck. I know he was a disoriented old man but so was Yoda, and still, the little one had heart.
Luke was a depressing fuck who couldn't even breath properly.
And now they can create "physical" hallucinations? Da fuck?? What a gigantic bullshit.
Even his death was anti climatic. Such an iconic and adored character turned to that...that....cardboard with a beard.
But in a way , thank God they killed him and we don't have to see him being dragged for another movie.
-the director: fuck you.
Her being hurt didn't do anything, just so to make Holdo a "bad bitch".
This was what made start to disbelieve with this movie.
And is she going to die off screen?
-Too.Many.Jokes: i know everyone loves MCU style but even though I don't like, I can live with that.
But on SW movie? Nah sorry...too stupid, too corny, too out of place.
-the pacing: 1st 45 min-1 hour were good. But after that , was just a disjointed mess.
-kylo: liked in TFA, he was just a confused mind, trying to prove to himself, that he could be better than everyone thought. Emo shit blablabla still it was an interesting starting point.
But now? Confused, angry, sappy, confused again, moppy, inraged, acting like a kid throwing a tantrum.
That enigmatic character, sometimes menacing...now an erratic petulant child, trying to be mean and violent.
-rey: she is not even a Disney princess...she's just there. There to be the "strong" female lead. But she wasn't strong, she was not believable. I blame the director for this one...I don't know.
-luke: hated his character. Holy fuck. I know he was a disoriented old man but so was Yoda, and still, the little one had heart.
Luke was a depressing fuck who couldn't even breath properly.
And now they can create "physical" hallucinations? Da fuck?? What a gigantic bullshit.
Even his death was anti climatic. Such an iconic and adored character turned to that...that....cardboard with a beard.
But in a way , thank God they killed him and we don't have to see him being dragged for another movie.
-the director: fuck you.
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ohkcrlho
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Phasma:
I felt the same thing. Should had been her...they wasted that scene. A pointless Stormtrooper didn't make any sense in that confrontation.
And I didn't want to make her cool...I wanted her to make anything. To be a character which the audience could love to hate.
Slicer/DJ/Del Toro :
Like I said...completely pointless.
Finn/rose:
Sorry but...the audience knew that kiss was going to happen but in such a cliche way? Why making this whole pointless adventure? Just so they "build" their """""""relationship""""""?
Holdo
Pink? Wasn't purple?? Maybe im color blind lol Anyway...why give so much attention to a character, just to kill her 1 hour later?
The audience doesn't have ANY connection with her. So her sacrifice just means anything for the movie but for is, audience? We don't feel pity...or anything at all.
Cat-horse mounts:
Love animals (like many) and hate them seeing them being hurt.
The keyword (heavy-handed) is at bold. I don't like that. Just seems like hunger games...we get it, rich people are bad, vapid and sociopaths. Just get on with it.
Rich vs poor
Remember the keyword.
Snoke
They copied the same thing from the Emperor in ROTJ....beat per beat.
Old crusty man, seated on a throne in his pajamas, totally confident, being a dick to his disciple, thinking he controls everything now and in the future...i really thought they were going to reveal him as the reincarnation of the Emperor.
BUT...in ROTJ, the Emperor didn't say "I can control Vader. No....he just thought Vader would never turn to the light. That is why he wanted to replace Vader with a more powerful pupil if it happened. That is why he did everything to have a fight between father and son.
Here, snoke said he was reading all kylo's thoughts but didn't read one, that by surprise (*cough* plot convenience *cough*) was about his death.
Praetorian guards
Meh...people complained the emperor's guards looked cool but didn't do jack.
So....let's make these ones badass and kicking ass...or their asses being kicked.
I felt the same thing. Should had been her...they wasted that scene. A pointless Stormtrooper didn't make any sense in that confrontation.
And I didn't want to make her cool...I wanted her to make anything. To be a character which the audience could love to hate.
Slicer/DJ/Del Toro :
Like I said...completely pointless.
Finn/rose:
Sorry but...the audience knew that kiss was going to happen but in such a cliche way? Why making this whole pointless adventure? Just so they "build" their """""""relationship""""""?
Holdo
Pink? Wasn't purple?? Maybe im color blind lol Anyway...why give so much attention to a character, just to kill her 1 hour later?
The audience doesn't have ANY connection with her. So her sacrifice just means anything for the movie but for is, audience? We don't feel pity...or anything at all.
Cat-horse mounts:
Love animals (like many) and hate them seeing them being hurt.
The keyword (heavy-handed) is at bold. I don't like that. Just seems like hunger games...we get it, rich people are bad, vapid and sociopaths. Just get on with it.
Rich vs poor
Remember the keyword.
Snoke
They copied the same thing from the Emperor in ROTJ....beat per beat.
Old crusty man, seated on a throne in his pajamas, totally confident, being a dick to his disciple, thinking he controls everything now and in the future...i really thought they were going to reveal him as the reincarnation of the Emperor.
BUT...in ROTJ, the Emperor didn't say "I can control Vader. No....he just thought Vader would never turn to the light. That is why he wanted to replace Vader with a more powerful pupil if it happened. That is why he did everything to have a fight between father and son.
Here, snoke said he was reading all kylo's thoughts but didn't read one, that by surprise (*cough* plot convenience *cough*) was about his death.
Praetorian guards
Meh...people complained the emperor's guards looked cool but didn't do jack.
So....let's make these ones badass and kicking ass...or their asses being kicked.
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Hoss
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Didn't see it yet, and didn't realize we had so many people here who did. A morning DJ on the station that's wall to wall christmas music right now (so I know nothing about him) saw a pre screening and said every dude in the theater was crying and none of the chicks were.
My question for those of you who have seen it, how gay is that dude? As of now I'm assuming he's deep in the closet, cried like a baby and projected that onto all the other dudes because he doesn't wanna face the truth.
My question for those of you who have seen it, how gay is that dude? As of now I'm assuming he's deep in the closet, cried like a baby and projected that onto all the other dudes because he doesn't wanna face the truth.
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Runnen
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Didn't hinder my appreciation of this film alone, but the ultimate potential payoff remains to be seen with the finished trilogy. The lack of importance on those two elements means they have to handle other things differently for the conclusion for it to be satisfying.
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I don't think I've seen such a disconnect between critics and general audience reactions before. It seemed like there was a strong wave of positivity the other day, now that the Euros got to see it...ouch. What gives?
Failing metacritic? Fake news? SAD??
Failing metacritic? Fake news? SAD??
Sort of related....if you need something to pass some time, this is somewhat entertaining. I watch this guy's Game of Thrones videos and he just put out a video of them watching The Force Awakens. The chicks are annoying, but the guys are fairly interesting. I think the dude on the left is the bartender, middle guy is a stand up comic, and the one on the right is a lawyer.
Grivyn
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I don't think there very many true "Critics" anymore, most of the MSM critiquing these days are part of the same umbrella the made the movie so it turning out paid for shilling be it TV,film or music.
Yeah, I'm not buying that as the overriding reason. I know some people get off on peering for SJWs, studio shills and MSM hacks hiding under every facet of our culture these days, but that shit gets overblown way too frequently. I'll count it as a contributing factor, but I wonder how much of the negativity is just nerd rage versus legitimate critiques. It would be really interesting to see how people would have initially reacted to ESB if the internet and social media was as prevalent 37 years ago.
I imagine if a benevolent alien race was giving consideration to making contact with us, it wouldn't take more than 10 minutes of them reading an average Facebook feed to peace the FUCK out.
I imagine if a benevolent alien race was giving consideration to making contact with us, it wouldn't take more than 10 minutes of them reading an average Facebook feed to peace the FUCK out.
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Royal
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ESB was the least well received of the OT at the time it came out, critically and with fans. It has the lowest box office returns on it's original run of the three (though to be fair, ANH's "original run" is considered all of it's various runs prior to ESB coming out in that comparison, but many of those would be considered limited releases today). It was only over time that it became everyone's definition of the pinnacle of the franchise.
I don't think enough people have seen it yet to say there is a disconnect between critics and the general audience. It's a predictably divisive movie among the most ardent fans who make up most of those who have seen it so far. Give it a couple of weeks then revisit the comparison in the reactions.
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Paranoia
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ok so it wasn't all that. doesn't mean it wasn't a good movie just didn't live up to the hype:
so after a while, i started to realize I was watching a retelling of return of the Jedi.
luke didn't do shit really, and yet at the end, he gets to poof obi wan style. why? why does this happen and to what end?
Ray is by far no were near master level Jedi much less apprentice yet somehow she can move rocks and fight with a lightsaber with only a few days / maybe a week worth of no training just fucking around on some island?
SIDE NOTE* why did Leia have superpowers? to survive the vacuum of space? I mean I thought that was a great way to killer her off but really she suddenly has the ability to get back to the ship WTF is WTF and don't come at me with she is a skywalker bullshit.
my fav part of the movie was when that "MATURE" when at light speed and fucked all there shit up that was pretty fucking awesome.
oh and Yoda cameo for the purpose of "stop being emo luke" we cant lose Ray but then luke decides to go spirt form in order to ???
luke didn't do shit really, and yet at the end, he gets to poof obi wan style. why? why does this happen and to what end?
Ray is by far no were near master level Jedi much less apprentice yet somehow she can move rocks and fight with a lightsaber with only a few days / maybe a week worth of no training just fucking around on some island?
SIDE NOTE* why did Leia have superpowers? to survive the vacuum of space? I mean I thought that was a great way to killer her off but really she suddenly has the ability to get back to the ship WTF is WTF and don't come at me with she is a skywalker bullshit.
my fav part of the movie was when that "MATURE" when at light speed and fucked all there shit up that was pretty fucking awesome.
oh and Yoda cameo for the purpose of "stop being emo luke" we cant lose Ray but then luke decides to go spirt form in order to ???