StarCraft 2

Well they're kind of addressing this in LotV. Half your patches have half the minerals they do now. So the 3/72 problem kind of rights itself because although the base won't be fully mined out it will be efficient to take a new base and transfer at least 16 workers there. Pretty rapidly that base will turn into being most efficiently mined by 8 workers.

So this is a new one. I beat a Protoss and he BM'd me in tells afterwards stating the reason he lost is I was playing so bad it was messing him up.

Well you have to lose to everything once and sometimes you end up focusing on all kinds of possible cheese instead of making shit

Lol I opened 12/12 reaper -> reactor, gas pull @ 100, CC before 2nd depot. He saw my build completely. If he was preparing for any cheese off that he's a moron.

Gom just released ro32 games for free on youtube. After the finals.

https://www.youtube.com/playlist?lis...4bq5x-P8hyWJ2L

I'm in full LotV hype mode. I'm having issues getting motivation to play HotS or watch it.

Tenks_sl said:

So this is a new one. I beat a Protoss and he BM'd me in tells afterwards stating the reason he lost is I was playing so bad it was messing him up.

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You must not be an idra fan while he was, idra's #1 reason every time he lost was because his opponent played so poorly.

I hardly care about the coming LOTV atm and i was a hardcore sc2 viewer. I had my GSL subscription and was having a blast watching live games with my popcorn. Blizz dropped the ball on the games momentum. You had people all over the world ( even non asians ffs ) partying in barcrafts when MKP did his sweet ass micro. Never saw anything close to this before. Then it seemed like the following day everything stopped. Am sure some really articulate nerd on teamliquid will one day make an article on that lost momentum and what sc2 could have been.

Not sure what could have been made different. Surely not a single thing, probably tweaks all over the board. Am sure there will be a small bump with LOTV, but if someone like me who was partying on the esport train fell completly out of it, that bump will indeed be very small. Hopefully ill be proven wrong.

I also finally understand the appeal of moba now. It is SOOOOOOOOO much easier to pick up and get into compared to sc2. Even Bob-5-apm can have a good time in it. Just thinking of playing sc2 again, working mechanics, learning the meta etc etc, just feels like a massive chore.

They're add a ton more micro chances and opportunities to LotV. However the daunting mechanics will always remain. The big issue with RTS vs MOBA is that it is completely binary. You win or lose and it is completely on you. In MOBA Bob-5-apm is probably equally bad at DOTA than he is at SC2 but at least he can pretend the actual issue is he is in MMR hell and his team mates are just way, way worse than him. I don't know if SC2's momentum stopped more like almost simultaniously LoL and DOTA2 both took off and cannibalized so many viewers. Personally I find sitting down and watching a MOBA atrocious and still find SC2 the best viewer experience. But it does require a certain amount of knowledge to appreciate it. With DOTA it makes sense because although there is depth the top layer is less complicated. In SC2 if you have no idea what is going on it looks like a bunch of "Nothing happened then someone won."

Just realised i presented my point in a poor way. Theres the viewer aspect and actually playing the game and i mixed both.

From my experience, i truly think watching an sc2 superstar match is more entertaining than watching a moba one, because i understand the lill details the pro makes. But from a playing point of view, holy cow is moba more accessible. Unless someone could point be out some bitching moba vod but then again, if you dont understand the subtilities, you probably miss out on alot just like sc2.

I guess it depends on which MOBA you're talking about. Heroes? Yes, very accessible and quite shallow. LoL and DOTA2? That shit is probably even more inaccessible than SC. DOTA2 requires literally 80-100 hours to even learn the abilities for all the heroes and all the items.

The SC2 train stopped because it stopped being the darling of all esport fans. All the other developers have a monetary interest in improving their competitive aspect because it makes them money, even if indirectly. Blizzard does it because they like being the nice guys, but it IS just PR money. There's also the problem of sustainability, I mean GSL just had what people describe as the best finals ever. I woke up late just to see the award ceremony. If I want to see the games, time to subscribe and use twitch vods (!!!). That's not how you increase your viewership and apparently nobody cares enough to even pirate the vods.

The scene got really big really fast, people were surprised by all the retiring when SC2 and BW collided, but it's pretty obvious that the scene has just deflated to a sustainable state. There was also a lot of fatigue, at least for me. I alreadysawmost of the games, none of the victories really matter since there's a tournament in two weeks where they will play again... It's going to blow up a bit with LotV, but unless Blizzard figures out something better than just throwing money at it, it will never reach MOBA appeal and I don't think that's bad. In light of all these changes, I find it surprising that they actually scrapped the marketplace, but I guess they couldn't figure out how to make it work and given the state of custom games, I think it's for the better.

We might even see them cutting up the game into content chunks, like ranked/unranked costs 5$ per season, each campaign costs 10-20$ with a free ranked season ticket included and custom games or arcade is F2P. Give out some pretty skins and portraits for every season ala HS. If they cranked out a campaign per year without any cinematics, I'd be happy to throw money at them.

I doubt they'll charge per season. The game still has a box cost associated with it which implies a certain amount of content you get by simply purchasing the box. I could see them charging you to unlock a separate ladder MMR to enable people to offrace. So for like $5 you can switch from your Masters account to your Platinum Zerg account and things like that. I still don't think they'll add skins simply because there is a concern there with team games and potentially having to load 8 different marine models.

I can't program shit, but since machines have been getting better over the past years, is that really an issue ? Blizzard games usually have pretty solid optimization.

Somebody mentioned capital buildings, which would solve confusing battles with the same units with different skins.

Ranked is the only thing in the game that absolutely needs a price tag, since hackers would run rampant otherwise, so you need CS to hand out bans. I don't think they would do it at launch, but a year down the line ? Why not ?

It really depends. Blizzard is always concerned with having their games run on toasters and now if suddenly there is a possibility of high quality/high poly models complete with new meshes and textures that can put a certain amount of strain on a machine.

And I love them for that, D3 RoS runs better than vanilla on my toaster laptop, but SC2 was never really a problem, since melee matches have pretty low limits on units/particles, but for example dota 2 became slowly unplayable on the same machine over a year or two.

I guess there's no answer unless we hear straight from horse's mouth.

I brought up a topic of conversation on TL and someone innovated on it much better. And that was addressing the stagnation of SC2. For a casual viewer each game is much the same. The maps as they sit all play out very similarly, the compositions are almost always the same ... basically one game is too similar to another. So I was wondering why that doesn't seem to be a complaint in MOBA. The obvious answer is the vast cast of heroes a MOBA can pull from. Simply plugging in a new hero requires counter play and may make some strategies invalid. So I was wondering if an RTS could support something like this. Basically you design 50-60 units and draft your races yourself. While I think that idea still may have merit someone brought up an interesting twist. Simply take SC2 as it is now but add a draft phase where you can pick/ban some of the ridiculous upgrades from the campaign. So like if it is TvZ and my opponent first picks some mutalisk upgrade I pick the upgrade to allow Vikings to splash their damage. He picks a roach upgrade and I give my tanks the ability to move while sieged. Crazy shit like that. I think that idea has real merit -- probably could be made as an arcade game as well.

Generals from Zero Hour ?

That's actually pretty good, especially with map design being more forgiving. I can hear the purists screaming already. I guess for ladder you just pick them yourself ahead or add a pregame phase ?

The only downside is that you would have longer learning phase, but it's not like the game doesn't have that already. I'd ban the shit out of all the mutalisk upgrades.

Never heard of Generals. Not sure how it would work on ladder. I suppose different modes would be easiest. One almost like HS where you pre-compile your "deck" and another like 1v1 CM.

Really ?Command Conquer: Generals ??" Zero Hour - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

I'd actually be in favor of like a minute to ban/pick as a pregame, it could add some social aspect to the game and remove the annoying aspect of being thrown straight into the game.