Stranger Things

Juvarisx

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In two posts I keep forgetting to say how much I enjoyed his character. I haven't watched the Boys yet but I just loved him here. Other than his dick turn in Aliens he has such a wonderful screen presence, he even makes Helen Hunt enjoyable. Spoiler:

He doesn't get to Hawkins in 86, I had to go back and rewatch parts of Episode 9 to be sure; I was obviously starting to fall asleep; another thread for Season 5.
This season is Stranger Things' ESB.
Will has always been gay, hasn't he? I guess I missed the overt Gay Will parts, too.

Dunno if hes always been gay, I don't think it was really a concern when they were supposed to be middle schoolers (season 1-2). He was def upset that Ele and Mike got together but I read that more as he felt left out cause everyone else had a girl but him in season 3. It doesn't even really bother me, this show isn't really preachy about it, Steve and Robin play off each other real well and he treats her like a guy friend which works. Then Mike doesn't even notice that Will is because why would he? Its more grounded and real in that sense and its not like they will put them together anyways.

Show def has too many characters now however. Steve was supposed to die in s1 to the Demigorgan (and Will's dad was to be in the house fighting it off at the end of the season), but everyone liked the actor and character more then they thought they would. Same thing with Erica, there's no way they planned on having her to be a main character but the kid actor is awesome and she adds to the show.
 
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rhinohelix

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Dunno if hes always been gay, I don't think it was really a concern when they were supposed to be middle schoolers (season 1-2). He was def upset that Ele and Mike got together but I read that more as he felt left out cause everyone else had a girl but him in season 3. It doesn't even really bother me, this show isn't really preachy about it, Steve and Robin play off each other real well and he treats her like a guy friend which works. Then Mike doesn't even notice that Will is because why would he? Its more grounded and real in that sense and its not like they will put them together anyways.

Show def has too many characters now however. Steve was supposed to die in s1 to the Demigorgan (and Will's dad was to be in the house fighting it off at the end of the season), but everyone liked the actor and character more then they thought they would. Same thing with Erica, there's no way they planned on having her to be a main character but the kid actor is awesome and she adds to the show.
Didn't know that about Steve/Will's Dad in S1 and you're correct about Erica as well but it fits the pattern (one "main character dies in the finale-ish doing something heroic per season; did anyone else die other than Barb in S1?). Not saying that they have always played Will as gay, that was always the vibe I picked up from the character, I wondered if they were going to have him come out at some point, but there is as you say in kids a broad sweep of behavior, just as easy for him to not be gay and just a late bloomer/late to the testosterone party. I don't even remember them showing him as gay in S4 frankly but not surprised that they did put him in the 80's closet.

Personal Story about the gay kids I knew in jr/senior high in Tx in the 80s:
We had a few kids in our class everyone knew were gay as early as 12 years old, 6th/7th grade: Everyone was subject to being called a bundle of sticks unless people thought you were, then it was never mentioned around you. They were partially ostracized by the boys but found a home with plenty of female friends and the band/theater/arts crowd. There wasn't a witch hunt of any sort because the people of which I speak were pretty flamboyant and no one really cared. No one in school clout chased by beating up fringe elements. 1250ish students.
4 years after graduation, one of my classmates was killed in an armed robbery/kidnapping/murder targeting a gay cruising spot in Lufkin, Texas, about 120 miles from home. I don't remember why he was living there. Several of them got the death penalty and were executed, others serving life.
Weird aside about my youth over.
 
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Qhue

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I have to give credit to the Duffers for recognizing and shifting plans when it becomes clear that a character is working out better than originally intended. As noted above Steve and Erica are great examples of this. In fact the whole 'Scoop Troop' plot thread in Season 3 is my absolute favorite continuous segment in Stranger Things to date and probably why I am very fond of Season 3 in general. It took two characters that were already excellent (Steve and Dustin) and paired them with Erica and Robin.

This also influenced a good part of how I felt about Season 4 as it took the best parts of Season 3 (Scoop Troop) and augmented it with Max, Nancy, Lucas and Eddie. It also grouped the less interesting characters (Mike, Will, and Jonathan) together which at least let them have a few moments where they weren't having to compete with the heavy hitters.
 
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Vinjin

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Worst thing about it, hands down: the kid from CA with that ridiculous wig. Just his entire character, the actor, the retarded interpretation of "California stoner culture", the absurd anachronism of having fancy-ass weed with names like pineapple whatthefuckever in the 80s, but most of all that goddam wig. Delete every trace of this character from the show and the season is twice as good.

100%.

Wig or not, the character reminded me of JarJar Binks - served no purpose being in the show and was overall just annoying as fuck.
 
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Qhue

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100%.

Wig or not, the character reminded me of JarJar Binks - served no purpose being in the show and was overall just annoying as fuck.

He did serve a purpose though. They wanted a character they could exposition-at to serve as a proxy for the audience members who may not have remembered things from previous outings and who could also serve as a negative-influence on Jonathan. The story they concocted needed the van for transport and wanted a 'local guide' for the California / Desert SouthWest experience who also provided access to the pizza freezer for the finale.

With those requirements they could have come up with a variety of different characters that defied stereotypes, but part of the charm of the whole thing is that it embraces all the 80s stereotypes.

Personally I would have tried to rework things so that Argyle was replaced by Suzie and her rebel sister as I think there's more to work with there.
 
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Vinjin

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Valid point. I'll amend my previous statement then to simply say, I found him annoying as fuck.
 
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Caliane

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started s4 up. and I'm immediately reminded on the parts I don't like. I struggle to like this show. The entire show is constantly homaging the 80's.. but it always feels just totally off. like no one involved actually grew up in the 80's. They just watched movies of it. so, culture is off, slang is off, timelines of things are off. Like, Vecna Lives! for ad&d 2nd addition released in 1990. prior to that, Vecna was just a name in flavor text of Vecna's eye and hand.

the cartoonish characters really break the tone for the serious drama and death. either homage 80's horror, or homage teen adventures. or... at least do a better job meshing them. carries, firestarter, scanners, etc. theres a fuck ton of 80's horror to play into. instead we get cartoon russians, les grossman dude, stoner dude, etc. the girls bullying Eleven. thats how movie bullies act, in movies. not how real life in the 80's was like.

hopper being alive, the doctor showing up and just like, oh, btw I can give you super powers back! the fuck is this shit?

the show does a good job of introducing side characters, giving them voices.. then killing them. Bev, heather, christy, etc.. but then it just really drops the ball in any resolutions to their deaths. the kids just go on about their relationship drama, and forget their dead friends.

so these all clash. the "real" elements are surrounded by cartoons. its jarring.
 
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Mahes

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The show is not a Master Piece.

We have not seen a Master Piece of dark fantasy since Season 1-4 of Game of Thrones("Dark" is more science fiction). It is however levels above a lot of other shows that have come out during its time. Dark is the only other show that Netflix has made that compares/surpasses in quality. "The Magicians" Season 1-4 would be the other show I might compare Stanger Things to in quality. I have enjoyed the trip down memory lane as that is indeed one of its appeals to me. What I have noticed is the variety of what people find appealing about it. There is an actual difference in what characters people enjoy. I think it is a good sign of a show's success if there is variety about what people like and dislike. There are elements that dragged but not to such a point that it spoiled the entire season. I am looking forward to how they write Season 5 given the ending of 4.
 

Barellron

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The Magicians" Season 1-4 would be the other show I might compare Stanger Things to in quality.

The Magicians is slightly above CW quality and, like any CW show, you only remember fondly because of the hotties.
 
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popsicledeath

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What I have noticed is the variety of what people find appealing about it. There is an actual difference in what characters people enjoy. I think it is a good sign of a show's success if there is variety about what people like and dislike.

This is not actually good story telling, though becoming more common. Good story telling will build characters people can find something to like about them, not just add characters until someone is bound to like at least one of them. But even sympathy or likability is a shallow device.

More important is building empathy in characters people can understand and find a way to relate to them, so even if you don't personally like or inherently understand a character you still have some measure of understanding for them, which builds interest and the opportunity for those outside of inherent relation to find relatable aspects of the character.

Take Max. Her first season on the show people fell mostly into like vs dislike. Why? While some people could relate to her on inherent levels (the "I know what it likes to be a teenage girl with a dick older brother" effect) many other people felt she was just there only serving the plot, but not herself being an interesting, empathetic character we came to understand even if we didn't inherently relate to her situation.

It wasn't really clear who she was or why she was doing what she was doing. Or when we did get insight it was just throwaway tropes like troubled punky Brewster little sister. There wasn't a lot to like, and less to really understand, so she was left as an unsympathetic character relying on sympathy, so felt shallow and weak.

This last season, we started to get real insight into her character. Instead of the generic character relying on sympathetic tropes, we got complicated insights into why she is how she is. Instead of just moody brat teen, she became a complicated, nuanced character even people who didn't like her could empathize with, understand, and be interested in.

The problem is there is only so much space on the page or screen to do that. When you have a large cast, invariably other characters have to be demoted to unfocused, background characters. Sometimes the characters have enough legacy empathy to keep them interesting and relevant, like Steve, and it continues to be effective for a time.

More often you just end up with a bunch of characters who are just sorta there, who we either like or not for superficial reasons, but who are forgettable and make a story feel uneven or bloated or shallow when they get screen time.

Or it creates off-putting melodrama as empathetic characters like max are paired with (barely) sympathetic characters like, umm, the black kid who I don't even remember his name after years of watching a show... The character we understand and empathize with has dramatic interactions with a character we don't really understand or care much about, so it creates an unintended foil between the two characters and feels uneven and becomes melodramatic because they aren't evenly matched characters.

It's no secret Max went from generally vaguely disliked to interesting and relevant. And it's no surprise strong characters built on empathy like Steve still feel relevant and interesting. These characters can't be summarize so easily anymore by their sympathetic trope like "the bratty punky Brewster" or "the rich kid" because they were made into interesting, unique empathetic characters not so easily defined.

But the show is left with a ton of characters that are just their sympathetic summaries. The burnout stoner. The awkward gay kid. The black kid who is obviously athletic so nerds vs jocks amirite cuz 'member those 80s movies.

The problem with 11 is she was an interesting, empathetic character despite her powers, which were cool too, but not because of them. Then they relied too often on superpowers are cool but make her "different" and even left her character on the back burner too often, so she became less interesting the more they used those generic tropes as a sympathetic crutch rather than continuing to build her up through the specific empathy for her and what she's going through.

They really needed to keep the cast smaller (kill characters in a dangerous world where it makes sense if people die) or more focused (send characters away in a world where itakes sense if people run away, disappear or hide).

Instead they just kept adding characters, and it's hurt the show in the specific ways adding too many characters can. Even when some people like some characters, it's usually not compelling or in the best interest if a story overall.

It becomes like watching a gangbang, where there are just a lot of characters just standing around awkwardly waiting for their turn in the spotlight. It becomes distracting and weird.

Which is why Stranger Things has felt increasingly uneven and at times both too slow and too fast. Like a gangbang, there always seemed to be extra characters just sorta there awkwardly not necessary to the action (thankfully not keeping themselves fluffed). Or the action shifts to the less interesting parts, like the guys keeping themselves fluffed, and you're impatiently waiting for the camera to shift back to the action you and most people want to see, that wasn't dudes fluffing themselves in the background.

Seriously, even if you're into gangbang action, who the hell is like c'mon show the three dudes awkwardly standing nearby watching, I wanna see them half-heartedly stoke themselves to keep ready for their turn.

That's what Stranger Things became, a bunch of characters just sorta awkwardly fluffing themselves, waiting their turn, in case they're needed for a plot point or in action as a stunt cock to make a character look good that is actually getting relevant development or screen time.

It's not a great story telling technique, even if their is a varied cast so everyone can sorta like someone, for the same reason it's not great production to just keep letting dudes join a gangbang. Sure, a small number of people like it precisely because there are dudes fluffing in the background... But most of the time it's better to stay focused on relevant action delivered through a limited cast of empathetic characters.

But Stranger Things just kept inviting more dudes to a gangbang, and eventually it's basically gay porn at some point. Which is why Will is probably going to be the focus next season.
 
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stupidmonkey

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Steve, Dustin, and Eddie spinoff/future team up is all I cared about. Everyone else could have died.
 
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rhinohelix

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This is not actually good story telling, though becoming more common. Good story telling will build characters people can find something to like about them, not just add characters until someone is bound to like at least one of them. But even sympathy or likability is a shallow device.

More important is building empathy in characters people can understand and find a way to relate to them, so even if you don't personally like or inherently understand a character you still have some measure of understanding for them, which builds interest and the opportunity for those outside of inherent relation to find relatable aspects of the character.

Take Max. Her first season on the show people fell mostly into like vs dislike. Why? While some people could relate to her on inherent levels (the "I know what it likes to be a teenage girl with a dick older brother" effect) many other people felt she was just there only serving the plot, but not herself being an interesting, empathetic character we came to understand even if we didn't inherently relate to her situation.

It wasn't really clear who she was or why she was doing what she was doing. Or when we did get insight it was just throwaway tropes like troubled punky Brewster little sister. There wasn't a lot to like, and less to really understand, so she was left as an unsympathetic character relying on sympathy, so felt shallow and weak.

This last season, we started to get real insight into her character. Instead of the generic character relying on sympathetic tropes, we got complicated insights into why she is how she is. Instead of just moody brat teen, she became a complicated, nuanced character even people who didn't like her could empathize with, understand, and be interested in.

The problem is there is only so much space on the page or screen to do that. When you have a large cast, invariably other characters have to be demoted to unfocused, background characters. Sometimes the characters have enough legacy empathy to keep them interesting and relevant, like Steve, and it continues to be effective for a time.

More often you just end up with a bunch of characters who are just sorta there, who we either like or not for superficial reasons, but who are forgettable and make a story feel uneven or bloated or shallow when they get screen time.

Or it creates off-putting melodrama as empathetic characters like max are paired with (barely) sympathetic characters like, umm, the black kid who I don't even remember his name after years of watching a show... The character we understand and empathize with has dramatic interactions with a character we don't really understand or care much about, so it creates an unintended foil between the two characters and feels uneven and becomes melodramatic because they aren't evenly matched characters.

It's no secret Max went from generally vaguely disliked to interesting and relevant. And it's no surprise strong characters built on empathy like Steve still feel relevant and interesting. These characters can't be summarize so easily anymore by their sympathetic trope like "the bratty punky Brewster" or "the rich kid" because they were made into interesting, unique empathetic characters not so easily defined.

But the show is left with a ton of characters that are just their sympathetic summaries. The burnout stoner. The awkward gay kid. The black kid who is obviously athletic so nerds vs jocks amirite cuz 'member those 80s movies.

The problem with 11 is she was an interesting, empathetic character despite her powers, which were cool too, but not because of them. Then they relied too often on superpowers are cool but make her "different" and even left her character on the back burner too often, so she became less interesting the more they used those generic tropes as a sympathetic crutch rather than continuing to build her up through the specific empathy for her and what she's going through.

They really needed to keep the cast smaller (kill characters in a dangerous world where it makes sense if people die) or more focused (send characters away in a world where itakes sense if people run away, disappear or hide).

Instead they just kept adding characters, and it's hurt the show in the specific ways adding too many characters can. Even when some people like some characters, it's usually not compelling or in the best interest if a story overall.

It becomes like watching a gangbang, where there are just a lot of characters just standing around awkwardly waiting for their turn in the spotlight. It becomes distracting and weird.

Which is why Stranger Things has felt increasingly uneven and at times both too slow and too fast. Like a gangbang, there always seemed to be extra characters just sorta there awkwardly not necessary to the action (thankfully not keeping themselves fluffed). Or the action shifts to the less interesting parts, like the guys keeping themselves fluffed, and you're impatiently waiting for the camera to shift back to the action you and most people want to see, that wasn't dudes fluffing themselves in the background.

Seriously, even if you're into gangbang action, who the hell is like c'mon show the three dudes awkwardly standing nearby watching, I wanna see them half-heartedly stoke themselves to keep ready for their turn.

That's what Stranger Things became, a bunch of characters just sorta awkwardly fluffing themselves, waiting their turn, in case they're needed for a plot point or in action as a stunt cock to make a character look good that is actually getting relevant development or screen time.

It's not a great story telling technique, even if their is a varied cast so everyone can sorta like someone, for the same reason it's not great production to just keep letting dudes join a gangbang. Sure, a small number of people like it precisely because there are dudes fluffing in the background... But most of the time it's better to stay focused on relevant action delivered through a limited cast of empathetic characters.

But Stranger Things just kept inviting more dudes to a gangbang, and eventually it's basically gay porn at some point. Which is why Will is probably going to be the focus next season.
So many 80's stereotypes, so little time. Weird turn with the gangbang analogy but I get what you are trying to say.
Leonardo Dicaprio Eyebrows GIF
weird GIF
 
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bolok

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Steve, Dustin, and Eddie spinoff/future team up is all I cared about. Everyone else could have died.
Eddie was alright, and i'm OK with them killing a character per season. They're making them more likeable as we go, even if they ultiumately make some heroicly poor decisions. But honestly- yes. Steve and Dustin spinoff would be peak lulz. Have Robin for a bit?, 4 episode miniseries or something.
 
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Ossoi

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This is probably the best atmos soundtrack to date in the whole 7-8 years of atmos being a thing. Admittedly it was mostly flickering lights and lightning but nice for my height speakers to finally come alive consistently

Max actress stood out this season. Guy playing Mike only has one facial expression, he does this pinch sideways lip thing
 

Gutterflesh

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This is not actually good story telling, though becoming more common. Good story telling will build characters people can find something to like about them, not just add characters until someone is bound to like at least one of them. But even sympathy or likability is a shallow device.

More important is building empathy in characters people can understand and find a way to relate to them, so even if you don't personally like or inherently understand a character you still have some measure of understanding for them, which builds interest and the opportunity for those outside of inherent relation to find relatable aspects of the character.

Take Max. Her first season on the show people fell mostly into like vs dislike. Why? While some people could relate to her on inherent levels (the "I know what it likes to be a teenage girl with a dick older brother" effect) many other people felt she was just there only serving the plot, but not herself being an interesting, empathetic character we came to understand even if we didn't inherently relate to her situation.

It wasn't really clear who she was or why she was doing what she was doing. Or when we did get insight it was just throwaway tropes like troubled punky Brewster little sister. There wasn't a lot to like, and less to really understand, so she was left as an unsympathetic character relying on sympathy, so felt shallow and weak.

This last season, we started to get real insight into her character. Instead of the generic character relying on sympathetic tropes, we got complicated insights into why she is how she is. Instead of just moody brat teen, she became a complicated, nuanced character even people who didn't like her could empathize with, understand, and be interested in.

The problem is there is only so much space on the page or screen to do that. When you have a large cast, invariably other characters have to be demoted to unfocused, background characters. Sometimes the characters have enough legacy empathy to keep them interesting and relevant, like Steve, and it continues to be effective for a time.

More often you just end up with a bunch of characters who are just sorta there, who we either like or not for superficial reasons, but who are forgettable and make a story feel uneven or bloated or shallow when they get screen time.

Or it creates off-putting melodrama as empathetic characters like max are paired with (barely) sympathetic characters like, umm, the black kid who I don't even remember his name after years of watching a show... The character we understand and empathize with has dramatic interactions with a character we don't really understand or care much about, so it creates an unintended foil between the two characters and feels uneven and becomes melodramatic because they aren't evenly matched characters.

It's no secret Max went from generally vaguely disliked to interesting and relevant. And it's no surprise strong characters built on empathy like Steve still feel relevant and interesting. These characters can't be summarize so easily anymore by their sympathetic trope like "the bratty punky Brewster" or "the rich kid" because they were made into interesting, unique empathetic characters not so easily defined.

But the show is left with a ton of characters that are just their sympathetic summaries. The burnout stoner. The awkward gay kid. The black kid who is obviously athletic so nerds vs jocks amirite cuz 'member those 80s movies.

The problem with 11 is she was an interesting, empathetic character despite her powers, which were cool too, but not because of them. Then they relied too often on superpowers are cool but make her "different" and even left her character on the back burner too often, so she became less interesting the more they used those generic tropes as a sympathetic crutch rather than continuing to build her up through the specific empathy for her and what she's going through.

They really needed to keep the cast smaller (kill characters in a dangerous world where it makes sense if people die) or more focused (send characters away in a world where itakes sense if people run away, disappear or hide).

Instead they just kept adding characters, and it's hurt the show in the specific ways adding too many characters can. Even when some people like some characters, it's usually not compelling or in the best interest if a story overall.

It becomes like watching a gangbang, where there are just a lot of characters just standing around awkwardly waiting for their turn in the spotlight. It becomes distracting and weird.

Which is why Stranger Things has felt increasingly uneven and at times both too slow and too fast. Like a gangbang, there always seemed to be extra characters just sorta there awkwardly not necessary to the action (thankfully not keeping themselves fluffed). Or the action shifts to the less interesting parts, like the guys keeping themselves fluffed, and you're impatiently waiting for the camera to shift back to the action you and most people want to see, that wasn't dudes fluffing themselves in the background.

Seriously, even if you're into gangbang action, who the hell is like c'mon show the three dudes awkwardly standing nearby watching, I wanna see them half-heartedly stoke themselves to keep ready for their turn.

That's what Stranger Things became, a bunch of characters just sorta awkwardly fluffing themselves, waiting their turn, in case they're needed for a plot point or in action as a stunt cock to make a character look good that is actually getting relevant development or screen time.

It's not a great story telling technique, even if their is a varied cast so everyone can sorta like someone, for the same reason it's not great production to just keep letting dudes join a gangbang. Sure, a small number of people like it precisely because there are dudes fluffing in the background... But most of the time it's better to stay focused on relevant action delivered through a limited cast of empathetic characters.

But Stranger Things just kept inviting more dudes to a gangbang, and eventually it's basically gay porn at some point. Which is why Will is probably going to be the focus next season.
Me: Wonder what FoH thought of Stranger Things…

FoH:
9701CEA7-A683-432F-A71E-E93161E98083.gif
 
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mkopec

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I heard on the radio that Metallica master of puppets search is up like 600% on internet because of this show, lol.
 
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Ossoi

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I heard on the radio that Metallica master of puppets search is up like 600% on internet because of this show, lol.

Wow no shit, Kate Bush hit #1 and was all over tiktok for weeks, what did you think was going to happen?
 
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Gutterflesh

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Wow no shit, Kate Bush hit #1 and was all over tiktok for weeks, what did you think was going to happen?
He was probably thinking you might not be a dick about something for once?

All fucking around aside Kate Bush and Metallica was a great selection.

When Master of Puppets came on I “unconsciously” shoved my wife out of the way to grab the remote, because that scene needed some volume.
 
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Ossoi

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He was probably thinking you might not be a dick about something for once?

All fucking around aside Kate Bush and Metallica was a great selection.

When Master of Puppets came on I “unconsciously” shoved my wife out of the way to grab the remote, because that scene needed some volume.

Maybe it is because Kate Bush is a bigger figure here than in the States, but it was legit about as a big a story as something music/chart related can get.

I still maintain it should come as no surprise - popular show about teen set in the 80s introduces new generation to old music isn't exactly "news"
 

mkopec

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I thought it was a fun fact to share with my board brethren. But low and behold, the board faggot always has to step in and ruin it.
 
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